Football

[Ivo]

People who know me are aware of my hatred of Leeds as a club, although this is not particularly relevant to the discussion. I almost lost a childhood friend on that fateful day in 1990. The club never apologised for what happened, even to date. We move on from the past, nevertheless my hatred for the club (not the majority of the supporters) will remain for as long as the club refuses to apologise.

Please forgive the ignorance, but what happened in 1990?

 

[CC 72100]

Please forgive the ignorance, but what happened in 1990?

Having done a quick bit or research (thinking exactly the same thing), I believe it was rioting following a 1-0 for Leeds at Bournemouth

I believe that was what was being referred to, but I could well be wrong!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

.

Perhaps I could say your constant references and criticisms to Rangers and many other teams on here are a cover up of the underperformance of Hyde and Oldham of late? See, it's a bad argument isn't it?

Matt, I suggest you back-track on this football thread at my postings of criticism of my own team Oldham Athletic over the last year then reconsider what you have said above. I don't think that anyone else (with the possible exception of David and his team Scunthorpe United) have criticised his own team so much. Incidentally, I have made some rather scathing postings about Hyde this season.

The criticism originally featured two teams from the same city, Rangers and Celtic, following your own posting, which came from more than one of the forum members and was based upon that very same premise. The nearest comparable league teams to Oldham Athletic are Rochdale and Bury and I defy you to find any derogatory posting that I have ever made to these teams.

You see, it is possible to make what I call "considered criticism" in postings about other clubs, such as my recent one about Manchester United and their perceived weakness at the centre of their defence. Comments on other clubs outside England are just that and not based upon any supposed historical and sectarian animosity, which is meaningless to me as I do not subscribe to that unfortunate aspect of football club fellowship. Did you think that I made postings about Fort William over the last few months which had any remote connection to this unfortunate and reprehensible behaviour .... or from a shinty versus football animosity ?

I am sure that we all reserve the right to make comment upon any football matter on this thread, with the proviso that common sense applies and no undertone of "hating for hatings sake" is contained in these. Perhaps I am one of the few members who espouse to this ideal.

Do you ...or any other forum member...now want to make further comment on what I have said above.

 

[yorkie]

Please forgive the ignorance, but what happened in 1990?

LMGTFY

[youtube]pYFNVKpIrXU[/youtube]

Typical dirty Leeds!

 

[Ivo]

Having done a quick bit or research (thinking exactly the same thing), I believe it was rioting following a 1-0 for Leeds at Bournemouth

Knowing that bb21 grew up in Bournemouth, and still supports the Cherries, this seems sensible. Sorry B!

LMGTFY

Typical dirty Leeds!

Thank you

...when do you ever in post in this thread? I know you follow York and all, but still!

Do you ...or any other forum member...now want to make further comment on what I have said above.

If I may?

Everyone loves to lap up the joy when their own team succeeds, but most of us - certainly on here - also find it amusing when things go wrong. And we are happy to criticise things when they go wrong. I personally tend to do less of the latter, because whilst Everton are not a headline team they are effective and consistent every year (barring the usual poor start which didn't happen this year); in spite of this though, I still do it. And when Southend are involved, I can probably beat everyone (with the possible exception of David)! My occasional references to ex-Shrimper Gary Hooper, now of Celtic (as David referred to earlier this week) are evidence of this.

This bickering about teams struggling or "not pulling their weight" is all very well, but we are all theoretically experts at critically analysing problems when they affect something "important" to us. We all know what is wrong and what is not, although sometimes our theories are not what they seem (for example, at this stage Oldham have just as many home points as they do away points), and as such this just isn't worth it.

So I would ask that this pointless debate draws to a close. It isn't going anywhere. Unless you want to discuss the failings of England or English teams in Europe, in which case, I'm sure we're all all ears

 

[YorkshireRider]

... And for all those saying Celtic deserved a point:
Celtic - 28% possession, 4 shots (2 on target), 1 corner.
Barca - 72% possession, 26 shots (16 on target), 15 corners.

I'm sorry, but points shouldn't be given out for holding out for ages, Barca dominated, played Celtic off the park and ultimately scored more goals, it was only Forster's world class perfomence that stopped them losing by 4 or 5. It would have been more of a disservice for Barca to not win then for Celtic to not lose!

I agree to a point but Lennon set the team out the only way he could against a team of Barcas quality and i feel they did deserve a draw. Lets not forget how Walter Smith bored us all half to death with his tactics against Man Utd in europe a couple of seasons back, but you couldnt blame him, it was the only way to get a positive result.

 

[balne-wonderer]

Good.



I will apologise for generalising. I was perhaps rash in my comments which were intended as a light-hearted comment. I certainly did not imply that all Leeds fans are like that. My opinion is that over the years much more could have been done by the club and the supporter groups to root out these problems. There are banters and there are things that cross the line. There are stupid people following all clubs around, however Leeds seem to suffer more from these idiots than many other clubs with a supporter base of a similar size. Unfortunately if a club's supporters have a reputation for being unruly then much more effort should be channelled into sorting these problems out at such clubs than at others, otherwise they do tarnish the image of the club and all supporters. Just look at how football supporters are demonised in general.

I think it is admirable the way things panned out this time especially with those who handed the twit over, and certainly hope this is part of the effort by all at the club to rid itself of the image it sometimes has. For far too long, people like that have been protected by those around them and they give everyone a bad name.

People who know me are aware of my hatred of Leeds as a club, although this is not particularly relevant to the discussion. I almost lost a childhood friend on that fateful day in 1990. The club never apologised for what happened, even to date. We move on from the past, nevertheless my hatred for the club (not the majority of the supporters) will remain for as long as the club refuses to apologise.

Bournemouth 1990 was a dark day for the club. It's always the same with Leeds in that just as they start to rebuild some kind of decent reputation back up there is an incident that puts us back 10 years.

I honestly believe that a football club is inherited not selected. I didn't select a club to support, I was born and brought up in Leeds with a family that supported Leeds so Leeds it was.

We take huge numbers away from home, our away support is easily comparable to the top Premier League teams including Manchester United. Obviously home attendance leaves a lot to be desired but the numbers we take away is incredible. A lot of fans instantly take a dislike to Leeds because away from home we pack out away ends and make so much noise it’s unbelievable. The problem is at a club like Leeds that has a bigger percentage of idiots than most clubs is that because we take so many away we end up with more idiots turning up.

Growing up the late 80’s and 90’s it never hit me just how universally disliked Leeds United were until I got to about 18. The majority of the hatred has little to do with success (because apart from the 70’s there hasn’t been much) but it comes from Leeds’ reputation for causing trouble up and down the country. It is still something the club needs to address and deal with because incidents like last Friday and totally unacceptable and embarrassing. The most telling thing to me was my dads reaction which wasn’t one of anger or fury but just of disbelief and sadness, I guess it reminded him of the bad old days.

I genuinely believe there is a lot more good Leeds fans than bad but it’s the minority that do so much damage for the majority. It’s a shame because the club, the city and the people have so much more to offer.

Two home games against Birmingham on sat and then Southampton on tuesday to look forward too. Then it's all long old trip to Brighton next Friday evening, can't wait for that one. Too much travelling for the old man though so just me, her and the lads. Should be cracking night out!

 

[Oswyntail]

...I genuinely believe there is a lot more good Leeds fans than bad but it’s the minority that do so much damage for the majority. It’s a shame because the club, the city and the people have so much more to offer....

Individually, I have known personally more pleasant Leeds fans than not. But I also avoid the city and trains when Leeds are playing at home, as I find the crowd to be frightening and intimidating (as bad as Manchester, much more so than other crowds, including Glasgow!).

 

[bb21]

I honestly believe that a football club is inherited not selected. I didn't select a club to support, I was born and brought up in Leeds with a family that supported Leeds so Leeds it was.
...

I don't generally have a problem with the fans, and indeed the vast majority are decent people, who help create some brilliant atmosphere at grounds partly due to the sheer number that go around and partly due to the passion. You do not choose who you support for most people and football can be highly territorial.

I actually think in hindsight it was dealt with well after the incident last week. This does indeed show that the club and the supporters are trying to work together to move forward.

My gripe has been with the club itself however I know even that slowly fades with time and will eventually become insignificant.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Knowing that bb21 grew up in Bournemouth, and still supports the Cherries, this seems sensible.

I was not aware of that bb21 came from that area but being the old codger that I am, I remember that in the early 1970's, Manchester United signed a goal-scoring centre-forward called Ted MacDougall from Bournemouth in the time of managerial upheaval at Old Trafford.

The season before that whilst at Bournemouth, Ted MacDougall played a notable role for Bournemouth in a first-round FA Cup tie against non-league Margate and scored no less than nine goals in an 11-0 win.hock:

 

[SS4]

One up at half time but we will hold out for three points?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I honestly believe that a football club is inherited not selected. I didn't select a club to support, I was born and brought up in Leeds with a family that supported Leeds so Leeds it was.

Must have skipped a generation in our family then. Paternal grandfather, myself and my brother support Villa but my dad supports West Brom.

Environment is important too of course. Would you be a Leeds fan if you were born and bred in Newcastle?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Balls, down to ten men and lose another defender. Bet we're going to sit back and try to hold the 1-0 :\

 

[Donny Dave]

Knill out!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Conference Premiership

Cambridge United 0...Hyde 1

Hyde now off the bottom, with two consecutive wins.

 

[ACE1888]

Celtic 0 Kilmarnock 2
Shocking home form all season...biggest win 2-0 v Dundee, as good in defeat we were at Barcelona, today should be a 'reality check', it gave Killi their first win at Celtic Park since 1955!
Still top of the table by 2 points (with a game in hand) though

 

[Ferret]

Celtic - in danger of coming second in a one-horse race!

 

[Ivo]

I need a new hometown team. Southend are hopeless.

At least they kept a clean sheet for once though (I seem to recall that in roughly 2007 they went over 50 matches without a 0-0?)

 

[EM2]

A decent win for Slough Town, running out 3-1 winners versus Fleet Town, despite going a goal down very early on.
Poor performance from West Ham, who never seemed to get going against Wigan, and lost 2-1.
I paid my money to Clapton again this week, who suffered a 2-0 reverse to Barking. A very enjoyable game, with Tons almost scoring within ten seconds, then hitting the bar, then conceding a debatable penalty which was saved, going 1-0 down thanks to a nice chip from the edge of the box and hitting the post right before the break.
Two chances cleared off the line, got their captain sent off, thanks to a very bad refereeing decision, absorbed the pressure for extended periods but then hit on the break to concede a second.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

Preston vs Tranmere. I don't know what Westley was up to today, Sodje needed to come on. Byrom and King didn't do much either from what I've gathered.
Shame really, we could have nailed 3 points today.

 

[youngiecj]

Boston 1 Worcester 2 Never beat them, stalybridge on Tuesday where the record since we dropped back into Non League is played 5 lost 5 at Bower Folds.

 

[SS4]

Some more points thrown away and another episode of motd I shan't be watching

 

[gnolife]

Alty flushed 3 points down the toilet, after being 1-0 up 87 minutes in, we lost the match 2-1, and got our captain sent off (straight red) for dissent, meaning he will be unavailable for the FA Cup tie at Burton next week.

 

[balne-wonderer]

The FA should just give the title to Man U now to be honest. Whats the point of anyone turning up to watch that con job today. I actually feel sick. That was disgraceful, completley disgraceful.

How many bad decisions went FOR Man Utd in that game? That has to have been a set up......What a deplorable club they are.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjVU6Twg2lg

Same ref as this game? He got absolutley no punishment for this. Imagine if it has been the likes of Joey Barton or El Haji Diouf..........or a Leeds United hooligan nasty man.

The bad decisions in today's game are too long to list. It is truly sickening that that club is allowed to get away with.

 

[SS4]

The FA should just give the title to Man U now to be honest. Whats the point of anyone turning up to watch that con job today. I actually feel sick. That was disgraceful, completley disgraceful.

How many bad decisions went FOR Man Utd in that game? That has to have been a set up......What a deplorable club they are.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjVU6Twg2lg

Same ref as this game? He got absolutley no punishment for this. Imagine if it has been the likes of Joey Barton or El Haji Diouf..........or a Leeds United hooligan nasty man.

The bad decisions in today's game are too long to list. It is truly sickening that that club is allowed to get away with.

If the roles had been reversed it would have been 2-2 and 11 men on the pitch for both sides. The FA don't do anything because they're weak and toothless and the less said about pundits the better.
Hint: "Fergie time" is an acceptable phrase in the football lexicon - that shows how commonplace Man Utd cheating is in one aspect.

 

[Johnuk123]

I can't think of a more biased display from a ref than all the other legendary displays which have given Man Utd. points other sides would never have got.

Clattenburg seemed determined to give everything possible to his favourite team from the start.

 

[CC 72100]

Ivanovic was a sending off (called right), Torres wasn't, and yes the goal was offside but it was difficult to see because of the way he was coming back from the goaline. Yes mistakes were made, but there is no great conspiracy theory going on.

I'm afraid to say I think that the overall standard of refreeing is dropping slightly, that or more and more attention is being paid to it. I'm not sure which, but both are very, very plausable and the truth is it's a probably a bit of both of them.

 

[balne-wonderer]

Ivanovic was a sending off (called right), Torres wasn't, and yes the goal was offside but it was difficult to see because of the way he was coming back from the goaline. Yes mistakes were made, but there is no great conspiracy theory going on.

I'm afraid to say I think that the overall standard of refreeing is dropping slightly, that or more and more attention is being paid to it. I'm not sure which, but both are very, very plausable and the truth is it's a probably a bit of both of them.

It wasn't just those decisions was it. The Evans/Torres one was horrific in itself as Evans could have been off himself but no.

Why wasn't Rooney given a 2nd yellow for his bad tackle? 2 minutes later Fergie took Rooney off, what does that tell you.

Cleverley (the darling of refs) went straight through Ramires. The ref played advantage but didn't go back to even book Cleverley, a shocking decision.

Why wasn't Little Pea booked for his celebration? It's clearly in the rules that any player that incites the crowd with his celebration will be booked. Little Pea clearly and shamefully goaded the Chelsea fans......once again, imagine a Barton or Diouf doing that. Little Pea was not booked.

Add them to awful decision for the offside and Torres/Evans debacle. Once again, all the decisions went in a certain teams favour. How many times do we see it?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The FA should just give the title to Man U now to be honest. Whats the point of anyone turning up to watch that con job today. I actually feel sick. That was disgraceful, completely disgraceful.

How many bad decisions went FOR Man Utd in that game? That has to have been a set up......What a deplorable club they are.

The bad decisions in today's game are too long to list. It is truly sickening that that club is allowed to get away with.

Since I now have to watch what I now say on the Football thread in future, I will just give the quote from Francis Urquhart in "House of Cards"....

"You may very well think that, but I couldn't possibly comment"

 

[CC 72100]

It wasn't just those decisions was it. The Evans/Torres one was horrific in itself as Evans could have been off himself but no.

Why wasn't Rooney given a 2nd yellow for his bad tackle? 2 minutes later Fergie took Rooney off, what does that tell you.

Cleverley (the darling of refs) went straight through Ramires. The ref played advantage but didn't go back to even book Cleverley, a shocking decision.

Why wasn't Little Pea booked for his celebration? It's clearly in the rules that any player that incites the crowd with his celebration will be booked. Little Pea clearly and shamefully goaded the Chelsea fans......once again, imagine a Barton or Diouf doing that. Little Pea was not booked.

Add them to awful decision for the offside and Torres/Evans debacle. Once again, all the decisions went in a certain teams favour. How many times do we see it?

To respond to a couple of those points...

1) Evans/Torres - I've already agreed with you, ref got that one wrong, everyone could see that

2) Well to me that sends a signal that a manager obviously knows his players very well and is well aware of when it's time to take them off for their own sake. Good decision in my book, realising that Rooney was getting wound up and acting on it.

3) Honestly can't recall the tackle so I'll give you that one until I see the incident again myself.

4) Can't find any videos of the celebration at present, but it didn't strike me as particularly bad at the time. He was hardly right in the middle of the fans now was he? In the grand scheme of things and decisions by the referee in the game (both wrong and right ones) it probably wasn't that important anyway.

Another couple of points though... I only caught the end of it, but was Cahill not all over Evans at a corner at the start of the second half, which if seen would have been a penalty? I was in the kitchen and just caught the end of it, but Tyler and Niall Quinn (who isn't United's biggest fan) thought so.

Could have also had a penalty conceded by David Luiz for the handball. Would have been harsh, but you do see them given.

(I would have tried multi-quoting, but I can never seem to do it right so hope you can still follow this!)

 

[MidnightFlyer]

So, it only took us two and a half months to get an away league win, hopefully, as I've said about 35 times over, we can now build on it, unlike in the past...

Although I'm forbidden from commenting on matters within the same conurbation as the team I support, I do have to say I fear Celtic are going to go all guns blazing into the Champions League where realistically they have little chance of getting beyond the Last 16, and will neglect the SPL, as demonstrated this weekend against Kilmarnock, however I do believe Killie played out of their skin on Saturday and got their just reward.

 

[tigerroar]

Ivanovic was a sending off (called right), Torres wasn't

It's Ashley Young.

Am I the only person who applies the law of the boy who cried wolf every time Ashley Young is "fouled"?

"He has a right to go down" were used after the game by Souness and Neville.

No he doesn't. The aim of the game is to score goals not gain a numerical advantage by getting opponent sent off.

The only decision that Mark Clattenberg got wrong was the first one. Young dived, shame on him, he has the pace and talent to beat players like Ivanovic every day of the week but chooses to cheat instead.

Pathetic.