Football

[Ivo]

However, Wayne Rooney could leave Manchester United this January according to tomorrow's Independent:

http://twitpic.com/840zhg

EDIT - United and Rooney have just rubbished this in a statement.

"Rubbished" or not, Rooney and HS2 on the same page? Whatever next? Cameron and Clegg seeing eye-to-eye?

In other news, Phil Jagielka is out for an estimated six weeks

 

[Minilad]

Anyone who what happened that caused the Oldham defender to get angry?

Apparently he has been racially abused by two Liverpool fans.

 

[DarloRich]

A day of destiny begins for Darlo - please try and think about us when you are worrying about finishing 14th in the Premier League. I wont have a club after today . Sleep well - it might be you next

 

[Michael.Y]

Apparently he has been racially abused by two Liverpool fans.

Which, according to BBC journalist Nick Parrott, is BS -- apparently he was called a "Manc b**tard" not a "black b**tard", and no arrests were made by police.

https://twitter.com/#!/NickParrottBBC

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Considering that the final two goals were conceded very late in the match, Oldham Athletic put up a very creditable performance away to a Premiership club and their goal would have been applauded as a well taken goal in any league. I thought their first-half performance was very creditable and the number of their chances to score must have been worrying for the Liverpool defence, but was not at all surprised to see Liverpool, with so much talent in hand, dominate from the second half onwards.

I was pleased to see that Steve Gerrard and Dirk Kuyt tried to reassure the young Oldham defender (who is on loan from Norwich City) after the unpleasantness occurred.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A day of destiny begins for Darlo - please try and think about us when you are worrying about finishing 14th in the Premier League. I wont have a club after today . Sleep well - it might be you next

I have just been on the official Darlington FC website and read the statement of Henry Madden (Joint Administrator) of Taylor Rowlands. It seems very depressing news.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I have seen footage of the alleged incident on Youtube. If it can be proved (can it?) that fans shouted 'f*cking black b*stard' towards Tom Adeyemi then something has to be done. I personally would chose one (or more) of the following:
- Deduct 30 league points
- Play next 12 home games behind closed doors
- Expel them from the League and FA Cups for this season and next
- Fine them several hundred thousand pounds
- Give them a final warning and threaten demotion if it continues.

The onus is on Liverpool and surrounding fans to control themselves. It cannot be tolerated, and only severe action will have an effect on whether it continues elsewhere in future.

 

[SS4]

I have seen footage of the alleged incident on Youtube. If it can be proved (can it?) that fans shouted 'f*cking black b*stard' towards Tom Adeyemi then something has to be done. I personally would chose one (or more) of the following:
- Deduct 30 league points

Maybe a bit excessive, it would put them adrift by ten points at the bottom.

- Play next 12 home games behind closed doors

Approved

- Expel them from the League and FA Cups for this season and next

That will not hurt them, potentially the opposite! Instead ban them from Europe.

- Fine them several hundred thousand pounds

Hundreds of thousands is still a pittance - make it equal to the sum of half the wage bill plus half the transfer bill.

- Give them a final warning and threaten demotion if it continues.

The onus is on Liverpool and surrounding fans to control themselves. It cannot be tolerated, and only severe action will have an effect on whether it continues elsewhere in future.

Demoting them would devalue the championship though. Instead ban them from Europe for at least a decade.
That being said for a harsh punishment like this to be enacted the FA cannot be prosecutor, judge and jury rolled into one.

----------------

Back in FA Cup land I'm am rather concerned about our chances of getting through :/ despite having Bristol Rovers away

 

[blackettstreet]

I went to a game at St. James' Park - AS IT IS PROPERLY CALLED! - for the first time in my life today. I was disappointed to see us concede a stupid goal in the first half, but a sensational Hatem Ben Arfa strike brought us level, before a fantastic Gutierrez effort won it for us in the last minute!
The atmosphere was unbelieveable, even with just 30,000 in a 52,000 ground - you can talk and joke to random people....we really are one enormous Geordie family! (and it only cost £5 to get in!)

 

[Michael.Y]

I have seen footage of the alleged incident on Youtube. If it can be proved (can it?) that fans shouted 'f*cking black b*stard' towards Tom Adeyemi then something has to be done. I personally would chose one (or more) of the following:
- Deduct 30 league points
- Play next 12 home games behind closed doors
- Expel them from the League and FA Cups for this season and next
- Fine them several hundred thousand pounds
- Give them a final warning and threaten demotion if it continues.

The onus is on Liverpool and surrounding fans to control themselves. It cannot be tolerated, and only severe action will have an effect on whether it continues elsewhere in future.

I find it mildly amusing that a Rangers fan has the audacity to lecture other clubs on controlling their fans. Liverpool may have one alleged racist fan, but consistent, constant, mass sectarianism exists and is largely accepted in Glasgow, on both sides. People in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.

The three accused were swiftly ejected from the grounds. Of those three, only one shouted something. What would you have Liverpool FC stewards do - read every one of those thousands of fans minds to see what they are thinking / about to chant before they actually chant it?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The three accused were swiftly ejected from the grounds. Of those three, only one shouted something. What would you have Liverpool FC stewards do - read every one of those thousands of fans minds to see what they are thinking / about to chant before they actually chant it?

As I said the onus is on other fans to control themselves. If I heard a racist comment I would report it to a steward.

As for the first point you made, where do you draw the line? Can no-one comment on diving as someone in there team will almost certainly have dived at some point in history? Can Millwall fans not comment on bad tackles as their team are prone to them? There are racist fans in any team in the world - the worst racism I have ever heard by a country mile is when I have attended PL matches (of which I have attended 50-60).

 

[Michael.Y]

As I said the onus is on other fans to control themselves. If I heard a racist comment I would report it to a steward.

Which did happen last night.

As for the first point you made, where do you draw the line? Can no-one comment on diving as someone in there team will almost certainly have dived at some point in history? Can Millwall fans not comment on bad tackles as their team are prone to them? There are racist fans in any team in the world - the worst racism I have ever heard by a country mile is when I have attended PL matches (of which I have attended 50-60).

So you're saying that racism is worse than sectarianism? I wouldn't. Racism is ignorance and stupidity - the result of fear, antagonism and reaction of something different BECAUSE it is different. It can be controlled and even cured by education and rehabilitation. Sectarianism however can not claim to be ignorant and stupid : it requires knowledge of your opponent -- it's a choice to discriminate, it's a choice to be fearful, antagonistic and reactive to someone because they worship the same nonexistant god in a different way. Because of its religious underpinning, it is much more dangerous. Because of its religious underpinning, it is accepted.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

... because they worship the same nonexistant god in a different way. Because of its religious underpinning, it is much more dangerous. Because of its religious underpinning, it is accepted.

Indeed, as an atheist I fully agree with you that religion is absolute tosh. I am not sectarian, I am a Loyalist, ergo I am a Rangers supporter. The rest can speak for themselves, they will have their reasons; I will not speak on their behalf.

 

[Michael.Y]

Indeed, as an atheist I fully agree with you that religion is absolute tosh. I am not sectarian, I am a Loyalist, ergo I am a Rangers supporter. The rest can speak for themselves, they will have their reasons; I will not speak on their behalf.

I do wonder about the mindset of people who send bullets to the opposing team's manager.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I do wonder about the mindset of people who send bullets to the opposing team's manager.

I might regret saying this, but Mr Lennon does appear to bring it on himself. he must surely know that if some certain people are provoked hard enough then they will react, I will say it is unacceptable, however, the constant ammo (no pun intended) Lennon gives them doesn't leave me surprised.

 

[Minilad]

Which, according to BBC journalist Nick Parrott, is BS -- apparently he was called a "Manc b**tard" not a "black b**tard", and no arrests were made by police.

https://twitter.com/#!/NickParrottBBC

A man has been arrested today on suspicion of a racially aggravated public order offence.

I'm sure it is all just a cultural misunderstanding and in the local dialect calling someone a black b*****d does in fact mean "hard luck fella, but you and your team played well.

Throw the book at the disgusting club and its hateful fans

 

[Butts]

The Oldham player involved in this incident "really needs to get a grip" his performance was more akin to a "luvvie" from the Theatre than a professional footballer.

If he's played in the days of Clyde Best that great stalwart of West Ham, when Bananas were thrown onto the pitch amid a chorus of "monkey chants" he may have had something to complain about.

Just as well it wasn't "Coloured Basta*d " chanted - as we found in a recent thread that is deemed more offensive :roll:

Think of the abuse some players have received in relation to marital infidelity. John Terry springs to mind. Does he throw a hissy fit - no he get's on with the game.

Frequent remarks in relation to the referees status at birth are commonly heard.

I'm sorry.... Fat , Black, Welsh, Four Eyed, Scottish,Irish....Basta*d all the same to me

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The Oldham player involved in this incident "really needs to get a grip" his performance was more akin to a "luvvie" from the Theatre than a professional footballer.

He is a 20 year old footballer. To have opposition fans shouting racial abuse at you must be hard to take at such a young age and with such inexperience. Of course John Terry wouldn't have reacted the same way, he's been around for over 13 years! :roll: He will learn to get over it in time, but I can understand why he was upset last night, and I feel really sorry for him.

As for crying, snooker player (and one of my sporting idols) Ding Junhui cried openly for about half of the 2007 Masters Final (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA5WN7cMlug), when he was just 18 / 19. He received a lot of personal abuse from the crowd, as well as someone shouting out what is meant to be the ultimate insult in Chinese. Now, however, he is much more mature, and is on course to be one of the greatest snooker players of all time, having already won several major competitions.

 

[Michael.Y]

Yeah I feel really sorry for these footballers, with their sports cars, 5-6 figure salaries and only having to do about 270 minutes work a week. Poor dabs.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Yeah I feel really sorry for these footballers, with their sports cars, 5-6 figure salaries and only having to do about 270 minutes work a week. Poor dabs.

Except for the 40% of them earning £250-£3000 a week, and do four full days' training, and play professionally up to three times for up to 270 minutes. The money (or lack of in last night's case) doesn't justify such abuse. Don't forget the 40% who do it for sub-£1k, or the others who do it in additional to other jobs for as low as £40 a week!

 

[Butts]

Yeah I feel really sorry for these footballers, with their sports cars, 5-6 figure salaries and only having to do about 270 minutes work a week. Poor dabs.

Yes they must be crying into their crystal champagne.

This political correctness is raging out of control (much like me) to have this incident as the lead story on the ITN News at teatime today says it all!!

 

[Minilad]

Yeah I feel really sorry for these footballers, with their sports cars, 5-6 figure salaries and only having to do about 270 minutes work a week. Poor dabs.

What someone earns is irrelevant in this situation. Just because you earn good money you are not immune to offensive comments from the terraces. And I doubt very much the young Oldham player would be on anywhere near those sort of figures anyway.

 

[Butts]

Except for the 40% of them earning £250-£3000 a week, and do four full days' training, and play professionally up to three times for up to 270 minutes. The money (or lack of in last night's case) doesn't justify such abuse. Don't forget the 40% who do it for sub-£1k, or the others who do it in additional to other jobs for as low as £40 a week!

The job is largely irrelevant it's a question of whether calling someone a Black Bastar*d is any worse than big eared or Scottish or fat - in my view it's not

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The job is largely irrelevant it's a question of whether calling someone a Black Bastar*d is any worse than big eared or Scottish or fat - in my view it's not

Isn't that what the other thread was for? If so, why did you bring that up here?

 

[Minilad]

The job is largely irrelevant it's a question of whether calling someone a Black Bastar*d is any worse than big eared or Scottish or fat - in my view it's not

And your view is largely irrelevant too to be fair. If the guy was upset, and the fact he was crying openly on the pitch, suggests he was then his view is the only one that matters in this incident

 

[Butts]

Isn't that what the other thread was for? If so, why did you bring that up here?

Because the central basis of the incident hinges on what is considered offensive.

 

[Minilad]

Because the central basis of the incident hinges on what is considered offensive.

What is offensive to one person wouldn't be to another. Just because you wouldn't be offended doesn't mean anyone wouldn't be

 

[Butts]

And your view is largely irrelevant too to be fair. If the guy was upset, and the fact he was crying openly on the pitch, suggests he was then his view is the only one that matters in this incident

Thats a democratic forum for you - it would be boring if everone agreed with each other. I respect your right to hold the view you have but don't have to agree with it.

 

[Minilad]

Thats a democratic forum for you - it would be boring if everone agreed with each other. I respect your right to hold the view you have but don't have to agree with it.

Neither of us have to agree with it. The fact is what you and I think is offensive, or not, is irrelevant in this case

 

[Butts]

What is offensive to one person wouldn't be to another. Just because you wouldn't be offended doesn't mean anyone wouldn't be

How would we survive .... the logical extension of your argument would indicate anything could be construed as offensive, we have to draw the line somewhere.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

How would we survive .... the logical extension of your argument would indicate anything could be construed as offensive, we have to draw the line somewhere.

Aye, we do, but calling someone a black b*stard should be well within the excluded area!