Football

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Manchester City 5...Newcastle United 0

Manchester City did their league position and their goal difference a deal of betterment with this win, with them playing the early evening kick-off in the full knowledge of the Chelsea result.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Grimsby and Fleetwood won!!!

 

[Antman]

From what I hear, not being satiated by their display of racism in Paris, they decided to treat the British an encore at St Pancras on their return.

Chelsea have acted against five of their "fans" already.

Seems referee Martin Atkinson decided to punish the club yesterday with a totally inept performance. Two stonewall penalties denied and Matic sent off after being the victim of a career threatening challenge from Ashley Barnes, obviously Matic shouldn't have retaliated but astonishingly Barnes wasn't even booked.

Hopefully the FA with be taking some retrospective action.

 

[Clip]

Manchester City 5...Newcastle United 0

Manchester City did their league position and their goal difference a deal of betterment with this win, with them playing the early evening kick-off in the full knowledge of the Chelsea result.

An absolute shambles of a game.

 

[bb21]

obviously Matic shouldn't have retaliated but astonishingly Barnes wasn't even booked.

That's the bit I don't really understand. By all means send Matic off but no one can possibly argue that it was not "serious foul play" from Barnes. I actually cringed when he went for Matic's leg, and I very rarely do that.

Why did the lino not remind Atkinson of that given that they have headphones? If he did and it was ignored then that performance from Atkinson was even worse than it appeared.

 

[balne-wonderer]

Not sure how we won yesterday but I'll take it.

That's the double over Boro, double over Bornmouth and also beat Derby.

Can we play them every week?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Seems referee Martin Atkinson decided to punish the club yesterday with a totally inept performance. Two stonewall penalties denied and Matic sent off after being the victim of a career threatening challenge from Ashley Barnes, obviously Matic shouldn't have retaliated but astonishingly Barnes wasn't even booked. Hopefully the FA with be taking some retrospective action.

How many times do professional footballers earning vast sums of money need to be told of the rules of the game that cover the matter of retaliation?

 

[ExRes]

If you wanted to see a tasty bit of retaliation then Stockport v Worcester was the place to be

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...LFgpgE&usg=AFQjCNEXLkRQbEQJiFXuH9YIgxy9MjE45g

 

[Antman]

How many times do professional footballers earning vast sums of money need to be told of the rules of the game that cover the matter of retaliation?

In the circumstances I think Matic's actions were understandable, I would suggest Ashley Barnes deserves to be banned for the rest of the season. Barnes also got away with an earlier foul on Ivanovic which deserved at least a yellow although that paled into insignificance when compared to the challenge on Matic.
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That's the bit I don't really understand. By all means send Matic off but no one can possibly argue that it was not "serious foul play" from Barnes. I actually cringed when he went for Matic's leg, and I very rarely do that.

Why did the lino not remind Atkinson of that given that they have headphones? If he did and it was ignored then that performance from Atkinson was even worse than it appeared.

One of the worst challenges I've seen on a football pitch, surely the FA cannot ignore it?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

How many times do professional footballers earning vast sums of money need to be told of the rules of the game that cover the matter of retaliation?

To be fair I think if anyone was on the receiving end what Barnes did, be it in the Premier League or down on Hackney Marsh on a Sunday morning, they'd react the same way, you can't really expect the fouled to just pick himself up and carry on like nothing happened with the kind of atmosphere and adrenalin going around. I can totally understand why Matic did what he did, he could very easily have been out for the rest of the reason, indeed it's not unusual for tackles akin to that to effectively end someone's career.

 

[richw]

One of the worst challenges I've seen on a football pitch, surely the FA cannot ignore it?

If the ref or any of the linesman say they saw any of the tackle they cant punish him under their rules. Maybe a rule change to follow rugby for retrospective punishment regardless of whether the ref saw it is needed. Something could look innocent from one angle, but very dangerous from another.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In the circumstances I think Matic's actions were understandable, I would suggest Ashley Barnes deserves to be banned for the rest of the season. Barnes also got away with an earlier foul on Ivanovic which deserved at least a yellow although that paled into insignificance when compared to the challenge on Matic.

The rules of the game, written in the stark way that they are, do not make allowances for retaliation, as this is treated as a completely separate offence to what had occurred previously.

"Understandable circumstances" therefore have no cogniscence whatsoever when applying the strict letter of the laws of the game.

 

[Antman]

The rules of the game, written in the stark way that they are, do not make allowances for retaliation, as this is treated as a completely separate offence to what had occurred previously.

"Understandable circumstances" therefore have no cogniscence whatsoever when applying the strict letter of the laws of the game.

Yes I can't argue with that, just a bitter irony that as things stand Matic gets a three game ban for an innocuous shove whilst Barnes gets away with a tackle that could have ended his career.

It can surely only be a matter of time until top flight football comes out of the dark ages and has a video ref who can review such incidents as happens in rugby.

 

[CC 72100]

Not at all, it is a very serious incident, but like I said I had to water down what I thought of him (stupid f***ing tw*t was closer to my thoughts if that satisfies you). I use words like berk and idiot to cover a range of people but always with appropriate levels of severity.

Just going back to this one (well, on second thoughts, your post didn't really talk about it but it's the most 'recent' one I can see!), and who is responsible, the victim speaking on 5live wanted to speak to the lawyer for Chelsea (the club) about it.

Chelsea should contact my lawyer and they haven't done that yet, it's their supporters after all. The director general of PSG (awful translation there by the way!), Paris St Germain, has called my lawyer and I haven't had any contact from my lawyer from Chelsea

I must say that I'm a little confused - the racist people were not acting in the name of the club, are not employed by the club. From the way I see it, they are individuals who choose to sympathise with an entity but do not formally represent it, and therefore I'm struggling to understand why it is Chelsea's responsibility (in the eyes of the law).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02kgqs8

 

[Antman]

Just going back to this one (well, on second thoughts, your post didn't really talk about it but it's the most 'recent' one I can see!), and who is responsible, the victim speaking on 5live wanted to speak to the lawyer for Chelsea (the club) about it.



I must say that I'm a little confused - the racist people were not acting in the name of the club, are not employed by the club. From the way I see it, they are individuals who choose to sympathise with an entity but do not formally represent it, and therefore I'm struggling to understand why it is Chelsea's responsibility (in the eyes of the law).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02kgqs8

Indeed the incident is nothing to do with Chelsea football club, forgive my cynicism but I suspect the victim sees the chance of a compensation payout.

 

[12CSVT]

Oxford City now have an unwanted record - in four of their last five games they have had a goalkeeper sent off.

 

[EM2]

That's the bit I don't really understand. By all means send Matic off but no one can possibly argue that it was not "serious foul play" from Barnes. I actually cringed when he went for Matic's leg, and I very rarely do that.

I'll gladly argue it. Barnes had the ball under control, played a pass, and Matic was late coming across to block. It was Barnes's natural follow-through that came down on Matic.

 

[bb21]

I'll gladly argue it. Barnes had the ball under control, played a pass, and Matic was late coming across to block. It was Barnes's natural follow-through that came down on Matic.

I'm not sure I would accept that it was a natural follow through but I guess that could be down to opinions.

Doesn't Barnes have a reputation for that sort of challenges too iirc?

 

[Antman]

I'm not sure I would accept that it was a natural follow through but I guess that could be down to opinions.

Doesn't Barnes have a reputation for that sort of challenges too iirc?

Neither would I, Barnes also committed another nasty spiteful foul on Ivanovic earlier in the same game

 

[RichmondCommu]

Indeed the incident is nothing to do with Chelsea football club, forgive my cynicism but I suspect the victim sees the chance of a compensation payout.

I'm sorry but that is a terrible thing to say and I hope that you might reconsider your comments. Your cynicism is certainly not forgiven. If like my wife you had been on the receiving end of racial abuse the last thing on your mind would be compensation.

One suspects that the victim is simply seeking to ensure that Chelsea do all that they can to cooperate with the British and French police.

 

[Antman]

I'm sorry but that is a terrible thing to say and I hope that you might reconsider your comments. Your cynicism is certainly not forgiven. If like my wife you had been on the receiving end of racial abuse the last thing on your mind would be compensation.

One suspects that the victim is simply seeking to ensure that Chelsea do all that they can to cooperate with the British and French police.

We'll have to beg to differ then, the incident has nothing to do with Chelsea football club although they have quite rightly condemned it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

We'll have to beg to differ then, the incident has nothing to do with Chelsea football club although they have quite rightly condemned it.

You show a refreshingly honest appraisal of the responsibility of a football club to an incident far removed from the stadium in which their match was played.

I am not sure how long you have subscribed to this particular football thread but we do have long-serving "old lags" on here who, if Manchester United had been the team concerned, would have been reaching for the vitriol in order to add spice to their postings and all sorts of "punishments" would have been demanded in their postings....

 

[Antman]

You show a refreshingly honest appraisal of the responsibility of a football club to an incident far removed from the stadium in which their match was played.

I am not sure how long you have subscribed to this particular football thread but we do have long-serving "old lags" on here who, if Manchester United had been the team concerned, would have been reaching for the vitriol in order to add spice to their postings and all sorts of "punishments" would have been demanded in their postings....

I have seen calls on social media for UEFA to take action against Chelsea. I don't want to make light of the incident but since when did UEFA takeover the Paris Metro?

 

[CC 72100]

The incident has nothing to do with Chelsea football club although they have quite rightly condemned it.

Agree - my view as well.

 

[Tetchytyke]

You can't beat a good Collymore meltdown on Twitter, the man's an absolute moron. Like someone said before, compared to a lot of other European nations England is relatively peaceful when it comes to racism in football.

I'll never forget the sight of 3000 Leeds fans all making monkey noises at him when he played for us. He answered them pretty well with that volley, but still. He has a point about racism, it's better here than in much of Europe but it certainly hasn't gone away.

I know there's more to it than race with Sol Campbell, but look at what the Spuds fans still sing about him even now.

Yes I can't argue with that, just a bitter irony that as things stand Matic gets a three game ban for an innocuous shove whilst Barnes gets away with a tackle that could have ended his career.

Barnes will not get away with it, he'll be banned for his tackle- and rightly so.

That said, I did a little bit of sick in my mouth when Jose got his tinfoil hat out. Cahill's tackle on Alexis Sanchez earlier in the season was as bad as what Barnes did, and that's not to mention the snide stamper that is Diego Costa. If he has a team of thugs he can't (but will, repeatedly) whine when other people act thuggish in return.
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the incident has nothing to do with Chelsea football club although they have quite rightly condemned it.

I disagree, a football club is responsible for the behaviour of its fans even away from their own ground.

Fenerbahce were fined when their fans smashed up the Emirates Stadium earlier on this season, even though they weren't in control of security in London, and rightly so.

I'd agree that "Souleymane S" seems to be out for a penny or two- I don't blame him, really, I'd cross my fingers and go watch Chelsea too if they were putting me in an executive box- but I think Chelsea need to clamp down on the people responsible. Interesting how, so far, we've got a UKIP-supporting public schoolboy and a former RUC officer caught up and both of them were "on their own" and "unaware of what was going on". Yeah right.

 

[CC 72100]

I disagree, a football club is responsible for the behaviour of its fans even away from their own ground.

Fenerbahce were fined when their fans smashed up the Emirates Stadium earlier on this season, even though they weren't in control of security in London, and rightly so.

Where do you draw the limit though? When do fans stop being 'the responsibility of the club' and become 'individuals acting independently of any club they may be affiliated with'?

The Fenerbache example for me is different - there it is something that has taken inside the stadium, and there is no doubt that the fans are affiliated with the club.
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That said, I did a little bit of sick in my mouth when Jose got his tinfoil hat out. Cahill's tackle on Alexis Sanchez earlier in the season was as bad as what Barnes did, and that's not to mention the snide stamper that is Diego Costa. If he has a team of thugs he can't (but will, repeatedly) whine when other people act thuggish in return.
.

This I can't help but agreeing with, although that Barnes tackle was pretty awful and I'll admit that a few decisions did go against Chelsea yesterday. Although equally so did decisions go against Southampton in their match at home to Liverpool yesterday - referees make mistakes, make questionable calls, but this shows there is no inherent 'plot'.

 

[Antman]

I'll never forget the sight of 3000 Leeds fans all making monkey noises at him when he played for us. He answered them pretty well with that volley, but still. He has a point about racism, it's better here than in much of Europe but it certainly hasn't gone away.

I know there's more to it than race with Sol Campbell, but look at what the Spuds fans still sing about him even now.



Barnes will not get away with it, he'll be banned for his tackle- and rightly so.

That said, I did a little bit of sick in my mouth when Jose got his tinfoil hat out. Cahill's tackle on Alexis Sanchez earlier in the season was as bad as what Barnes did, and that's not to mention the snide stamper that is Diego Costa. If he has a team of thugs he can't (but will, repeatedly) whine when other people act thuggish in return.
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I disagree, a football club is responsible for the behaviour of its fans even away from their own ground.

Fenerbahce were fined when their fans smashed up the Emirates Stadium earlier on this season, even though they weren't in control of security in London, and rightly so.

I'd agree that "Souleymane S" seems to be out for a penny or two- I don't blame him, really, I'd cross my fingers and go watch Chelsea too if they were putting me in an executive box- but I think Chelsea need to clamp down on the people responsible. Interesting how, so far, we've got a UKIP-supporting public schoolboy and a former RUC officer caught up and both of them were "on their own" and "unaware of what was going on". Yeah right.

I hope Barnes will be punished, and punished severely. Yes Cahill's tackle on Sanchez was bad but I thought it was reckless rather than malicious. I obviously cannot condone what Diego Costa did either although Martin Skrtel is no angel himself. Maybe I'm a bit biased but I thought Barnes's tackle was one of the worst I have ever seen.

I cannot agree about football clubs being held responsible for the behaviour of their fans well way from the ground, where would it end?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Where do you draw the limit though? When do fans stop being 'the responsibility of the club' and become 'individuals acting independently of any club they may be affiliated with'?

If you have huge groups of people in a city wearing club colours and chanting club songs then chances are they are part of that club. Chelsea are not trying to argue otherwise- the ex-RUC officer has been a season ticket holder for 20 years apparently.

Rangers were fined for their fans' behaviour in Manchester before and after the UEFA Cup final in 2008, and both them and Celtic have been repeatedly fined for sectarian singing inside and outside of football grounds in Europe.

I don't want it to be about Chelsea- every single club in this country has some fans who are complete a-holes- but I think clubs are responsible in punishing fans who behave like this. Chelsea, to their credit, seem keen to do this.

 

[CC 72100]

If you have huge groups of people in a city wearing club colours and chanting club songs then chances are they are part of that club. Chelsea are not trying to argue otherwise- the ex-RUC officer has been a season ticket holder for 20 years apparently.

That's the difficult to define part. Was that whole train full of Chelsea fans, all travelling together in a 300-strong group? Or was what we saw a pocket of 6-10 fans? It's really not easy to define.

Rangers were fined for their fans' behaviour in Manchester before and after the UEFA Cup final in 2008, and both them and Celtic have been repeatedly fined for sectarian singing inside and outside of football grounds in Europe.

To be fair those were known to be larger groups. In this case, we don't know how many were involved. They could have been 10 lads travelling to the game together, or they could have been the 200-strong Italian 'ultra-style' arm of the Chelsea hardcore support. No way to tell.

I don't want it to be about Chelsea- every single club in this country has some fans who are complete a-holes- but I think clubs are responsible in punishing fans who behave like this. Chelsea, to their credit, seem keen to do this.

This I agree with. Responsible for punishing, but in my view not responsible for the original actions.

 

[Antman]

If you have huge groups of people in a city wearing club colours and chanting club songs then chances are they are part of that club. Chelsea are not trying to argue otherwise- the ex-RUC officer has been a season ticket holder for 20 years apparently.

If one of them is a season ticket holder it is perhaps slightly different but generally clubs have no control over who wears their colours and sings their songs etc. I'm not saying that just because I am a Chelsea fan, I'd say the same about any other club.