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With the additions of Gathering and SVR to Flying Scotsman and it's touring programme - What's happening to the dates? Are some being cut back? The greatest gathering falls during the Locomotion summer fest?
That's exactly my thoughts. But the website says Scotsman is at the summer festival from 27 July - so Locomotion need to change their website. Thanks for clearing that up.
I know I've left this a while to respond to but
Yea - I must have not seen that clearly.
I believe NYMR now have it in for an event too. Pricing is quite ridiculous. Up to £54.50 for a non donation fare flying Scotsman standard ticket. (Includes rover on other trains but still. It doesn't even serve Whitby!)
it is a demand product - they don't have to give it away!
That price seems like a standard sort of price for this type of event. In any event you are getting quite a bit for your money. You are getting a pretty decent ride behind FS being a Grosmont to Pickering return ( pretty long for a non mainline run), a full day out AND a free rover for the rest of the day (IRC)
I suppose. Though for 2 people that does cost £108. Which I suppose isn't bad. Maybe I judged it too soon. However, I do believe Flying Scotsman should generally be more accessible demand or not as lots of people turn out disappointed when it sells out/costs too much etc.
It just needs balance. I must say I do commend NYMR for giving a rover too.
It's a controversial topic - Scotsman is.
it is a demand product - they don't have to give it away!
That price seems like a standard sort of price for this type of event. In any event you are getting quite a bit for your money. You are getting a pretty decent ride behind FS being a Grosmont to Pickering return (pretty long for a non mainline run), a full day out AND a free rover for the rest of the day (IRC)
However, I do believe Flying Scotsman should generally be more accessible demand or not as lots of people turn out disappointed when it sells out/costs too much etc.
i agree - however you cant get much more accessible than free at the NRM in Shildon
I went with some younger family at xmas and it was great - hardly any queues when we went, light steam so it smelt of smoke and had a fire going, free footplate access, staff on board to chat and educate, you could sit in the drivers seat, you could even go down the corridor tender thing!
I think it will do some gentle chuffing on the short demo line at Shildon this summer
I know I've left this a while to respond to but
Yea - I must have not seen that clearly.
I believe NYMR now have it in for an event too. Pricing is quite ridiculous. Up to £54.50 for a non donation fare flying Scotsman standard ticket. (Includes rover on other trains but still. It doesn't even serve Whitby!)
Pricing is equally ridiculous for the full SVR reopening event this weekend - £45 for a full line return behind Scotsman! Tickets sold out within minutes, apparently.
I find it equally ridiculous that Flying Scotsman, a loco with very little connection to the SVR, was chosen as the first train to operate to Bridgnorth in public service. Surely a locomotive with a long term history at SVR, such as Hagley Hall, would’ve been more appropriate?
I find it equally ridiculous that Flying Scotsman, a loco with very little connection to the SVR, was chosen as the first train to operate to Bridgnorth in public service.
don't be silly. Could you answer any of the questions posed? What is the problem? TO me it brings peopel in who might not otherwise travel and perhaps they come back and travel behind the wonderfully important "Hagley Hall" without thinking abiout the money earnt for a preserved railway.
don't be silly. Could you answer any of the questions posed? What is the problem? TO me it brings peopel in who might not otherwise travel and perhaps they come back and travel behind the wonderfully important "Hagley Hall" without thinking abiout the money earnt for a preserved railway.
I think many enthusiasts (including myself) are sick of Flying Scotsman being the be all and end all of railway preservation in Britain. I do understand that it generates important revenue for railways like SVR and NYMR, but it seems to be the only loco you ever hear about in mainstream media. It’s a bit like how engineers like Brunel and Stephenson took all the credit for major engineering projects, when it was the navvies who really made them happen. In terms of real legacy, rather than pure fame or money, Flying Scotsman is a tiny part of a much bigger picture of many preserved railways and locomotives that most people have never heard of.
I think many enthusiasts (including myself) are sick of Flying Scotsman being the be all and end all of railway preservation in Britain. I do understand that it generates important revenue for railways like SVR and NYMR, but it seems to be the only loco you ever hear about in mainstream media. It’s a bit like how engineers like Brunel and Stephenson took all the credit for major engineering projects, when it was the navvies who really made them happen. In terms of real legacy, rather than pure fame or money, Flying Scotsman is a tiny part of a much bigger picture of many preserved railways and locomotives that most people have never heard of.
Pricing is equally ridiculous for the full SVR reopening event this weekend - £45 for a full line return behind Scotsman! Tickets sold out within minutes, apparently.
I find it equally ridiculous that Flying Scotsman, a loco with very little connection to the SVR, was chosen as the first train to operate to Bridgnorth in public service. Surely a locomotive with a long term history at SVR, such as Hagley Hall, would’ve been more appropriate?
My Mum has a perpetual fixation on seeing Scotsman somewhere, at some point. Personally I wouldn’t be overly fussed if it happened to appear somewhere that I happened to be, and I certainly wouldn’t go out of my way to look at it - but I’m not its target market!
Those of us who understand trains are all likely to be bored of it, but it has been doing amazing work in raising awareness amongst the non-anorak general population for a good few years now, and for that we should all be appreciative. It’s like seeing a row of MGs parked up at a classic car show; for the spotters it’s a yawn fest but to the average person on the street they’re all just lovely shiny classic cars!
It is near impossible for me to put a price on it, as I have no idea how much it actually costs to run the loco. I perceive FS to be little more special than any other preserved steam locomotive, but most people would disagree with me on that one.
Preferably, the price of a trip on FS should be affordable to a wide audience, while also making enough money to support its maintenance, as well as the railway. If that’s £45, I stand corrected.
It just seems steep considering you can buy a rover ticket to go on multiple engines on a normal running day for less.
A tonne of coal is about £450-odd currently. Flying Scotsman used to use about 9 tons to do London to Edinburgh non-stop, but slower speed running on a heritage line will be much less efficient.
I think I read in one of the enthusiast publications last year, one heritage railway was having to rethink the number of steam trips offered as it was now costing them about £20-£25 in coal for each mile travelled.
At the higher end of those figures, it could be costing about £400 in coal just to do Kidderminster to Bridgnorth. Then another £400 coming back and whatever coal is burnt standing at the termini and then running round. Those £45 tickets don't look that expensive in those terms I'll be honest.
I do agree that ideally heritage icons like Flying Scotsman should be accessible to as many as possible but costs are getting truly horrific for things like coal and parts now.
It is near impossible for me to put a price on it, as I have no idea how much it actually costs to run the loco. I perceive FS to be little more special than any other preserved steam locomotive, but most people would disagree with me on that one.
Preferably, the price of a trip on FS should be affordable to a wide audience, while also making enough money to support its maintenance, as well as the railway. If that’s £45, I stand corrected.
It just seems steep considering you can buy a rover ticket to go on multiple engines on a normal running day for less.
It’s an interesting proposition; does FS cost more to run as a result of its museum ownership and status, less to run because it has such a large organisation behind it, or does it make no difference? I suppose in terms of a trip from A to B it’s unlikely to have an impact - unless of course it travels with a well paid entourage?!
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A tonne of coal is about £450-odd currently. Flying Scotsman used to use about 9 tons to do London to Edinburgh non-stop, but slower speed running on a heritage line will be much less efficient.
I think I read in one of the enthusiast publications last year, one heritage railway was having to rethink the number of steam trips offered as it was now costing them about £20-£25 in coal for each mile travelled.
At the higher end of those figures, it could be costing about £400 in coal just to do Kidderminster to Bridgnorth. Then another £400 coming back and whatever coal is burnt standing at the termini and then running round. Those £45 tickets don't look that expensive in those terms I'll be honest.
I do agree that ideally heritage icons like Flying Scotsman should be accessible to as many as possible but costs are getting truly horrific for things like coal and parts now.
I suspect either prices are going to go through the roof, or we're going to have to be clever and find an alternative fuel source. Could be an interesting university research project.
I suspect either prices are going to go through the roof, or we're going to have to be clever and find an alternative fuel source. Could be an interesting university research project.
My take is that like Thomas the Tank Engine, Flying Scotsman is a gate way drug. As much as enthusiasts will bemoan both of them and wish to avoid events themed around either, both have done loads to inspire both the current generation of enthusiasts/volunteers and the next.
Regardless of the authenticity of her 100mph run or whether she was the most deserving A3 to be preserved or any other issue people may have, she has done a lot for the preservation movement.
She is almost certainly the most well-known non-fictional steam locomotive and I reckon more non-enthusiasts know her name than Mallard's. Her purchase direct from BR probably helped pave the way for other locos to be saved.
I remember when she was at the Watercress, it was a great occasion. I didn't pay extra to ride on her as being honest you can't tell the difference between most locos once you're sat on a mk1. However it was great to walk beside her in the yard on the non-running day. I was blown away by her sheer size! She is also IMO one the most beautifully shaped locos ever.
I think it's brilliant that she travels across all the heritage railways, who are all struggling for money, and gets them a weekend of high spending.
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Pricing is equally ridiculous for the full SVR reopening event this weekend - £45 for a full line return behind Scotsman! Tickets sold out within minutes, apparently.
My take is that like Thomas the Tank Engine, Flying Scotsman is a gate way drug. As much as enthusiasts will bemoan both of them and wish to avoid events themed around either, both have done loads to inspire both the current generation of enthusiasts/volunteers and the next.
Regardless of the authenticity of her 100mph run or whether she was the most deserving A3 to be preserved or any other issue people may have, she has done a lot for the preservation movement.
She is almost certainly the most well-known non-fictional steam locomotive and I reckon more non-enthusiasts know her name than Mallard's. Her purchase direct from BR probably helped pave the way for other locos to be saved.
I remember when she was at the Watercress, it was a great occasion. I didn't pay extra to ride on her as being honest you can't tell the difference between most locos once you're sat on a mk1. However it was great to walk beside her in the yard on the non-running day. I was blown away by her sheer size! She is also IMO one the most beautifully shaped locos ever.
I think it's brilliant that she travels across all the heritage railways, who are all struggling for money, and gets them a weekend of high spending.
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Ain't going to happen and being honest saving the environment is better than saving steam.
Our efforts are better spent on finding alternatives than campaigning to keep a coal mine open just for our benefit.
It is of course irrelevant, as you say it’s never gonna happen, but reopening one Welsh/UK coal mine on a small scale would IMHO be both prudent and profitable, given that there will always be a demand for it in some quarters. The coal that the GWR burnt was supposedly of legendarily good quality, whereas some of what turns up on boats from abroad to go in steam locos etc is apparently rubbish, so British coal developing itself a reputation as a quality product in specialist areas seems a pretty reasonable proposition to my mind. Of course, some of the Greenwashing brigade tend to find sensibly measured debate about such things to be difficult; see “just stop oil” for an example, so it’ll never happen!
It is of course irrelevant, as you say it’s never gonna happen, but reopening one Welsh/UK coal mine on a small scale would IMHO be both prudent and profitable, given that there will always be a demand for it in some quarters. The coal that the GWR burnt was supposedly of legendarily good quality, whereas some of what turns up on boats from abroad to go in steam locos etc is apparently rubbish, so British coal developing itself a reputation as a quality product in specialist areas seems a pretty reasonable proposition to my mind. Of course, some of the Greenwashing brigade tend to find sensibly measured debate about such things to be difficult; see “just stop oil” for an example, so it’ll never happen!
I dont know the numbers, but I'm pretty sure one mine alone, no matter how small, can't be kept afloat by all the heritage railways alone.
Also I doubt politicians are willing to do the 'thing edge of the wedge' by allowing coal mining just for heritage railways.
Actually I suspect the likes of the Reform party would happily reopen all the coal mines, but I think it best we avoid party politics on this thread...
I've always been of the opinion that heritage should have an exemption to allow limited quantities of coal mining, so we can avoid importing the stuff from elsewhere, and avoid spending more money in importing worse stuff. However, if it does come down to it, I strongly suspect we'll need a renewable alternative eventually.
Any ideas on whether or not charcoal would be a viable alternative in future?
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