Flooding - refund?

[trainophile]

Where do we stand as regards getting a refund if a TOC advises us not to travel unless essential due to flooding problems involving bus replacements?

My husband is meant to be coming from Hereford to Southport tomorrow via Chester, and it seems there is disruption on both ATW and M/Rail Wirral Line, which is likely to continue into tomorrow as there's no sign of the rain abating. It would be better for him not to set out at all, rather than become stranded in Chester. There seems to be problems on all the alternative routes to Southport too, so even if he exchanged his ticket it's doubtful he'd have a straightforward journey.

Also we have tickets to go to Preston on Wednesday together, but if he can't get here these will be wasted. If I take them to a station tomorrow would there be a chance of a refund? Or would they charge us £10 per ticket admin fee, which would make it not worth our while?

I know TOCs can't be blamed for the weather, but if it means people can't stick to their travel plans do they use their discretion regarding refunds?

 

[richw]

Not sure how likely they are to refund, but this would not be covered if you took a insurance policy, as it is classed as an "act of god". best thing to do though is apply for the refund, the worse they can do is say sorry not eligible

 

[trainophile]

Good point about "act of God", hmm.. Trouble is, I don't have time to get the tickets to where I bought them from before the date they are valid for, which probably invalidates a claim anyway. Drat .

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I would advise contacting the company you bought the tickets from, ideally the customer relations department, they can inform you of any special refund arrangements that may be in place.

 

[reb0118]

Good point about "act of God", hmm.. Trouble is, I don't have time to get the tickets to where I bought them from before the date they are valid for, which probably invalidates a claim anyway. Drat .

Do you not have 28 days to return unused tickets for a refund?

 

[transportphoto]

Correct me if I am wrong but surely if the train is cancelled, you have a right to refund even if the situation is out of the rail industry's control?

TP

 

[ainsworth74]

I would first see what ATW/NRE are saying, if the disruption really is that bad then there's a chance that they'll relax the date restrictions on tickets. So tickets that were, for example, only valid for today might be accepted tomorrow instead.

 

[barrykas]

Under Condition 26(a) of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage, if the train is cancelled, delayed or a reservation will not be honoured, your husband is entitled to abandon his journey and obtain a refund at any Ticket Office by the original Method of Payment, where the office is in a position to do so, with no admin fee charged.

If he's unable to get to a Ticket Office one hte planned day of travel, he has 28 days from when the ticket expires to return it to the original retailer for a refund, again with no admin fee applied. In most cases, it's possible to return it to another Ticket Office operated by the same Train Company.

The above applies regardless of where the original ticket was purchased, though certain staff will (incorrectly) insist that you return the ticket to the original selling location for refund.

A refund under that condition would likely only apply for the Hereford - Southport journey, as Preston is currently unaffected. Depending on the ticket type, you may be able to get a refund on the Preston tickets, but it's likely to be subject to an administration fee of up to £10.00.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[wintonian]

I Don't TOC's normally wave the admin fee if a passenger decides not to travel when there is severe disruption due to bad weather?

There is no right to delay repay or charter compensation as it is outside the TOC's control, but of course your rights to a refund under the NCoC are not affected.

 

[bb21]

There is no right to delay repay or charter compensation as it is outside the TOC's control

There may not be any right to Passenger's Charter compensation in these cases, however Delay Repay does apply regardless of the cause.

 

[trainophile]

Thanks for all the info and advice. Merseyrail is now showing "All services running normally" so if that is still the situation tomorrow, and assuming he can get as far as Chester, there may not be a problem after all. Just have to wait and see I suppose.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There may not be any right to Passenger's Charter compensation in these cases, however Delay Repay does apply regardless of the cause.

Not all TOCs do Delay Repay do they? I thought it was a London Midland thing.

 

[bb21]

Not all TOCs do Delay Repay do they? I thought it was a London Midland thing.

AFAIK, the following companies operate a Delay Repay Scheme:

-CrossCountry
-East Coast
-East Midlands Trains
-First Capital Connect
-First Hull Trains
-Grand Central
-Greater Anglia
-Heathrow Connect
-Heathrow Express
-London Midland
-London Overground
-Merseyrail
-Southeastern
-Southern

Grantedly not ATW.

 

[ainsworth74]

Not all TOCs do Delay Repay do they? I thought it was a London Midland thing.

Quite a few do Delay Repay, indeed I think that most of them now do and those that don't will after when the franchise is next renewed.

Also further to my earlier post according to NRE both ATW and FGW are allowing passengers with tickets for today to travel tomorrow so if it's really bad again tomorrow they might well do the same again.

 

[snail]

Not sure how likely they are to refund, but this would not be covered if you took a insurance policy, as it is classed as an "act of god". best thing to do though is apply for the refund, the worse they can do is say sorry not eligible

You should get a better policy. My annual travel insurance covers "A Public Conveyance being cancelled or curtailed because of adverse weather" amongst other things. A £50 excess would apply, so that makes a dent in any ticket refund, but the cover is definitely there.

 

[transmanche]

Not sure how likely they are to refund, but this would not be covered if you took a insurance policy, as it is classed as an "act of god". best thing to do though is apply for the refund, the worse they can do is say sorry not eligible

If your insurance company doesn't pay out because they class heavy rain and flooding as an 'act of god', then it's time to switch to a new insurance company!

 

[vjm1975]

Although Merseyrails site shows Services running normally on the ticker, a pop up opens advising the followig :-

Chester and Ellesmere Port Disruption

Due to severe weather conditions, services are suspended between Rock Ferry and Chester and Ellesmere Port. A very limited rail replacement bus service is in operation between Rock Ferry and Hooton.Customers are advised to make alternate travel arrangements between Hooton and Chester and Hooton and Ellesemere Port ,this is due to the lack of availability of rail replacement buses.This situation is likely to remain in place till the end of service today.
Unless there is a significant improvement in the weather, for tomorrow Tuesday 25th September,this arrangement will stay in place on the Chester and Ellesmere Port Line, with a 15 Minute Shuttle service going from Rock Ferry to Rock Ferry.

Rain has stopped now. It has been hammering down pretty much no stop since early last night, and Hooton station, as well as the area towards Capenhurst has always been prone to Flooding that can take a day or two to recede.

I guess just need to keep checking regular tomorrow and hope things get going again south of Rock Ferry

 

[trainophile]

I thought it was confusing that the ticker suddenly went to "running normally". Been following a regular Wirral line commuter on Twitter and he has had to get a lift home as he was stranded at Hooton (or maybe Rock Ferry, wasn't clear).

Unfortunately OH is booked on the 0625 ex-Hereford tomorrow, so we need to make a decision tonight really. We're going back to Hereford on Thursday so even if they allow travel on Weds instead of tomorrow there's still not much point. Sigh, good old Britain :roll:.

 

[wintonian]

There may not be any right to Passenger's Charter compensation in these cases, however Delay Repay does apply regardless of the cause.

You are quite right, I think I may be a little rusty ATM.

 

[northwichcat]

trainophile - What type of ticket is held - does it only allow travel via Chester or would it allow travel via Wigan?

Both the Wirral and Northern lines on Merseyrail now have normal service.

Chester-Crewe is closed, while services between Shrewsbury and Chester via Wrexham are suffering severe disruption.

Alternative to still travel via Chester could be to catch a Manchester service at Hereford, alight at Crewe, board a Virgin Holyhead service (which may be diverted over the Middlewich branch) and then pick up Merseyrail at Chester.

 

[trainophile]

trainophile - What type of ticket is held - does it only allow travel via Chester or would it allow travel via Wigan?

Both the Wirral and Northern lines on Merseyrail now have normal service.

Chester-Crewe is closed, while services between Shrewsbury and Chester via Wrexham are suffering severe disruption.

Alternative to still travel via Chester could be to catch a Manchester service at Hereford, alight at Crewe, board a Virgin Holyhead service (which may be diverted over the Middlewich branch) and then pick up Merseyrail at Chester.

It's an Advance ticket, via Chester, so deviating wouldn't be allowed unless additional tickets are bought, or other TOCs state that they are accepting eachother's tickets. If the Wirral and Merseyrail lines are true to their current status and running normally then the only problem will be Hereford to Chester. At present there is no service through Shrewsbury, so that kinda scuppers any alternative routes.

OH is not very au fait with rail travel, as I have always done all the planning and ticket buying, so I think anything different to the original plan would confuse him! I could talk him through it I suppose. Thank goodness for mobile phones!

 

[vjm1975]

Hooton station resembles a swimming pool according to a tweet by
Maarten Spaargaren, Merseyrails managing director. More heavy rain forecast for tomorrow morning so the prospect of trains running south of Rock Ferry tomorrow look unlikely.

 

[trainophile]

Hooton station resembles a swimming pool according to a tweet by
Maarten Spaargaren, Merseyrails managing director. More heavy rain forecast for tomorrow morning so the prospect of trains running south of Rock Ferry tomorrow look unlikely.

Thanks. I've just text him to say don't bother setting out until he's checked the state of play. Which means I'll have to be up at 5.00 to check online as he doesn't do computers! Better have an early night...

 

[plannerman]

Both the Wirral and Northern lines on Merseyrail now have normal service

The updates from Merseyrail are confusing - normally the website ticker is good, but services are definitely not running normally. There has been nothing between Hooton and Chester all evening, I guess they will see what the state of the track is in the morning. There isn't even a replacement bus! I find it unbelievable that Merseyrail can't source replacement buses.

There are buses from Chester to Liverpool every few minutes, so there is an alternative, but I wouldn't assume that they're taking rail tickets. It's also a very arduous journey by bus.

 

[Green Lane]

At least they've corrected the Merseyrail ticker now to mention the disruption again.

I agree it was confusing earlier when it was wrongly stating "all services running normally" yet the official Merseyrail twitter feed was still mentioning that nothing was running to Chester or Ellesmere Port.

Indeed as already mentioned there's a regular bus service from Chester to Liverpool (The numbers 1 or 2, I often get those buses home from work) so no-one should end up stranded there just because the trains are off. But the bus is quite a bit slower than the trains and would result in some delay to journeys. Also if they are not accepting rail tickets, then of course it would involve extra expense.

 

[trainophile]

Thanks again, I really appreciate everyone's help. I'm logging off now as I'm setting my alarm for 05.30 (eek) so that I can find out what's what, assuming anyone is around to update the info at that unearthly hour. I don't have a good feeling about it though .

Thanks also for the info re. normal service buses. It's a fair old way by road from Chester to Liverpool, and even then he'd never find Moorfields on his own! He's not a confident traveller at the best of times. Best he doesn't embark on the journey at all I think.

 

[andypops]

AFAIK, the following companies operate a Delay Repay Scheme:
[truncated]
Grantedly not ATW

I'm unaware of the issues arising if your OH declines to travel tomorrow. But, in terms of claiming a refund if he does have any problems, I hope I can be of help.

Any refund for a delay has to be applied for via a "Customer Comments" form for Arriva Trains Wales (ATW). These are obtained via station booking offices at any staffed ATW station. But a couple of "words to the wise" - ATW's customer relations dept have become a lot tighter over the last few years, and any attempt to claim a refund via these without a ticket (even if a receipt is attached) is futile. I say this from experience.

The values that they will pay are often arbitrary and not linked to the price paid for the ticket - and if you escalate the issue, you will receive a curt letter reminding you of their obligations under their passenger charter (which BTW has not been updated online since Sept 2009...). The train delay required for a full refund is something obscene - 4 hours or more if memory serves (although I am willing to be corrected). A shorter delay is entitled to a minimum of a fraction of the ticket price - I have found from experience that this is usually 20-33% of the ticket price, paid in rail travel vouchers (unless the value is under about £50), and if less, is usually rounded up to a sensible value. As an example, I have in the past received travel vouchers for £2.50 on a £21.00 ticket (after a 90 minute delay!), paid in 10p and 20p vouchers. The booking office staff were not amused, and I hope this illustrates that ATW will often do the bare minimum to help - or even deliberately try to inconvenience people - although that is a worst case scenario, and other times I have claimed I have had better luck.

However - 99% of ATW barrier staff are completely useless , so allow for this. I've seen one let someone through showing a kit-kat wrapper (no joke, this really happened - not saying where) in a NR ticket holder in place of a season ticket, but I have also had a lot of issues if I've asked to retain the ticket in order to claim a refund under their passenger charter. But this is specifically what their Customer Comments form asks for, and without it you will have difficulty making a successful claim for any refund.



My advice (as someone who uses ATW daily, and has been through this procedure on many occasions), is that if your OH does travel but has any problem during his journey for which he wants to make a claim under ATW's passenger charter, ensure that you keep a receipt, along with a photograph of the ticket. The gateline & booking office staff at Hereford are great; not so at Chester or any other ATW station I've visited though. If your OH can't keep the ticket, make sure he gives as much information on the Customer Comments form including the ticket number, train times (the timetable times, and the actual times the trains arrived).


Hopefully, all of this will be useless for you though - as I hope the trains to be back to normal too!

Good luck for tomorrow


Andy

 

[AntoniC]

According to the BBC Travel site, there is no service between Rock Ferry & Chester.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/travelnews/merseyrail

 

[trainophile]

Good morning all!

I checked Twitter and ATW's disruptions page at 05.20, to find problems still evident on both ATW and Merseyrail, so phoned him. He was already walking the two miles to the station and hadn't checked his phone or he'd have seen the two warning texts I sent last night, argh silly s0d. Advised him to turn around and go home, which he did. It was only a "pleasure" trip so no real harm done, and the cat will be coming out of the cattery after just one night so it will be pleased! Anyway I digress...

Massive thanks Andy for the comprehensive info. I bought his ticket from the eastcoast website, so thought I might send it back to them with an explanation that there were problems on both legs of the journey (and this morning I see further problems on the line from Liverpool to Southport, so he'd have potentially been scuppered on all three stages). Eastcoast have been known to be pretty helpful in such circs. Anyway it wasn't an expensive ticket so no worries if I just have to put it down to bad luck.

Now to see whether I can get a refund for the Southport to Preston tickets for tomorrow - wish me luck!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

According to the BBC Travel site, there is no service between Rock Ferry & Chester.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/travelnews/merseyrail

Oh hello, I see you're a fellow Southportian . Are you using the Northern Line today? Just wondered what's going on.

 

[AntoniC]

I got the 5.53 Southport to Moorfields this morning with no problems at all

 

[northwichcat]

According to NRE, ATW customers who were unable to travel yesterday and today, can use their ticket tomorrow but I assume that doesn't include connections on other operators' services unless they have made similar statements.