Flooding at South Croydon - lines blocked

[GodAtum]

Are there going to be refunds or compensation?

 

[ushawk]

Delay Repay will apply for Southern (staff at Eastbourne last night were telling pax to remember to pick a form up to claim). TOC's affected are going to want compensation from Thames Water too, wonder how much their bill will cost.

4 out of 5 lines opened (although the slow lines are still very muddy) - line closest to the embankment is the one still shut, presumably to secure the embankment. Very good with information this morning on the Southern website, none as such from staff though.

 

[GodAtum]

How is the replayment calculated? I'm just trying to work out if I should bother cause if it's only a few quid then I wont! I travelled from Victoria - east Croydon with a 50 min delay.

 

[Malderon]

I thought Delay Repay didnt apply if it wasn't the railways fault.

(I'm probably completely making that up but I'm sure I read it somewhere)

Anyway I've put in for mine - effectively my train being cancelled meant I had to fund a taxi even if overall I wasn't delayed!

 

[willas00]

Another pic here - doesn't look good.

Reminds me of Weston Super Mare beech only with train tracks o.O

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought Delay Repay didnt apply if it wasn't the railways fault.

(I'm probably completely making that up but I'm sure I read it somewhere)

No, the whole idea of Delay Repay is that they do normally pay up for any reason. The quid pro quo is that there are no longer charter discounts for longer season tickets -you have to claim for each delay separately.

 

[Simon11]

The evening standard made abit of a cock up reporting that only 2 out of the 4 lines were open.
The huge picture clearly showed 5 lines lol

 

[Chrisgr31]

As a commuter on the Uckfield Line I have been trying to work out how come it was our line that was worse affected by this landslide especially as you'd have thought the diesels would be better at getting through it! However appears to be due to the lines affected.

It does however give rise to the question as to how they got the trains in to run the shuttles between Sanderstead and East grinstead and Uckfield and Oxted.

Although I have to say I think Southern have done well to lay on alternative services (bus etc) Its very annoying that their email service didnt give any clue there was a problem until 17.45 yesterday, and in both rush hours today was reporting no disruption on the Uckfield line! Guess a bus replacement service is not disruption!

 

[djh1986]

I'm a Gold Card holder between East Croydon and Portslade and by 6-7pm last night, I had to make a decision whether to stop down on the South Coast as I suspected it would take the best part of three hours then had to be in at 9am this morning. In the end, I stumped up for a hotel and a change of clothes, I'm tempted to chance my arm and try and claim some of it back off Southern (about £75 all in), what do people think my chances of success are?

The 17:49 back from Brighton to Victoria was a laugh tonight, usually runs as an 8 carriage service (have known 12 and a 10 car 442 before too) but tonight it was 4 coaches. You can only imagine what that was like, some passengers were actually being uneasy about sitting in First Class, absolutely no way everyone would have got on if people hadn't piled into First. Highlight of the trip was a drunken gent falling asleep against the doors and then not realising when they opened at East Croydon, head first down the gap which then caused a delay in getting everyone off the train!

 

[jopsuk]

I'm a Gold Card holder between East Croydon and Portslade and by 6-7pm last night, I had to make a decision whether to stop down on the South Coast as I suspected it would take the best part of three hours then had to be in at 9am this morning. In the end, I stumped up for a hotel and a change of clothes, I'm tempted to chance my arm and try and claim some of it back off Southern (about £75 all in), what do people think my chances of success are?

Absolutely zero. A service was available, they care not how much sleep you would have had.

 

[Super Sprinter]

Well it was still a bit shambolic this morning. The 8 car unit I usually get was still only a 4 car unit.

With even the 8 car getting full I do wonder why Southern do not run a few more 10/12 car units. Is it simply down to an absence of rolling stock?

 

[lorolrob]

As a commuter on the Uckfield Line I have been trying to work out how come it was our line that was worse affected by this landslide especially as you'd have thought the diesels would be better at getting through it! However appears to be due to the lines affected.

It does however give rise to the question as to how they got the trains in to run the shuttles between Sanderstead and East grinstead and Uckfield and Oxted.

Although I have to say I think Southern have done well to lay on alternative services (bus etc) Its very annoying that their email service didnt give any clue there was a problem until 17.45 yesterday, and in both rush hours today was reporting no disruption on the Uckfield line! Guess a bus replacement service is not disruption!

Even if a train is a diesel, it still cant run through a landslide and flood such as this incident. There would be a very high risk of derailing and/or causing serios damage to the engines and the undercarrige of the units.

The units running the Sanderstead - East Grinstead and the Uckfield - Oxted shuttles, would have been trapped in that section when the landslide took place, hence there availabilty to provide shuttles.

 

[ushawk]

As a commuter on the Uckfield Line I have been trying to work out how come it was our line that was worse affected by this landslide especially as you'd have thought the diesels would be better at getting through it! However appears to be due to the lines affected.

The slow lines/lines towards Oxted were affected the most as they were obviously closest to the embankment and services cant get from the fast lines onto the Oxted lines, so thats why there were shuttles. Never knew trains could turn back at Sanderstead though.

 

[MCR247]

With even the 8 car getting full I do wonder why Southern do not run a few more 10/12 car units. Is it simply down to an absence of rolling stock?

ahahahaha

Southern - abscence of rolling stock

They do need to sort it out, and surely they can just diagram the stock on routes that need it

 

[southerner2174]

The slow lines/lines towards Oxted were affected the most as they were obviously closest to the embankment and services cant get from the fast lines onto the Oxted lines, so thats why there were shuttles. Never knew trains could turn back at Sanderstead though.

Theres a crossover from the up line onto the down line just south of sanderstead, a few years ago during engineering work around christmas a sanderstead-east grinstead shuttle service was run, although the first day got botched after a train got signalled through and the points hadnt been reverted back and they got crunched!!!!

 

[pendolino]

Never knew trains could turn back at Sanderstead though.

There are crossovers signalled with ground position lights at the country end of Sanderstead (i.e., just after leaving Sanderstead towards Riddlesdown) and also at Selsdon Jct (site of the now-closed Selsdon station), between South Croydon Jct and Sanderstead. Both can be used to shunt from Down to Up and vice versa.

The country-end Sanderstead shunt is regularly used by an early morning service which runs empty from Selhurst depot to turn back at Sanderstead, then in passenger service from there to Victoria.

Strangely, there's also still a (working and permanently showing 2 reds) ground position light at Selsdon Jct protecting access from the old Selsdon to Woodside line onto the down East Grinstead, even though the track has been severed and the pointwork removed.

 

[Hydro]

That picture looks like it's going to be one hell of a job to clear up.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Strangely, there's also still a (working and permanently showing 2 reds) ground position light at Selsdon Jct protecting access from the old Selsdon to Woodside line onto the down East Grinstead, even though the track has been severed and the pointwork removed.

Far cheaper to leave it there and remove the button in the box than change the interlocking, circuitry etc.

 

[pendolino]

That picture looks like it's going to be one hell of a job to clear up.

It's all cleared up now though! I worked a train through there today and was expecting to go down the reversible, but was routed on the Down Slow, the line closest to the embankment. Perhaps surprisingly, the retaining wall survived intact, with the soil being washed over the top. There was a long reach 360 at the top of the bank regrading the remaining soil on the embankment. I think NR deserve praise for getting things back to normal as quickly as they did, given the extent of the problem.

 

[Hydro]

Bloody hell, that's some good work. Just need to keep an eye on that bank and hope no crap in the ballast layer causes a nice big wet bed in time.

 

[pendolino]

Bloody hell, that's some good work. Just need to keep an eye on that bank and hope no crap in the ballast layer causes a nice big wet bed in time.

Oh there's still plenty of crap in the ballast layer! The affected lines still look like a sandy beach. Any idea how NR would deal with this Hydro? Just wait for rainfall to wash the fines through? Or clean the ballast somehow?

 

[swt_passenger]

Bloody hell, that's some good work. Just need to keep an eye on that bank and hope no crap in the ballast layer causes a nice big wet bed in time.

The blokes on site seemed to be well ahead of most of the media - which probably led to some folk taking long diversions that weren't strictly necessary.

Two lines were back Monday evening according to SN, and four yesterday evening, with SN then reporting a 'full timetable' this morning.

 

[Hydro]

Oh there's still plenty of crap in the ballast layer! The affected lines still look like a sandy beach. Any idea how NR would deal with this Hydro? Just wait for rainfall to wash the fines through? Or clean the ballast somehow?

Dig it out and replace it probably, the fines are the problem. They stop the ballast from being free draining, trap any water and mix with it, and there's your wet spot. Due to the fines and water presence, what's there is practically a wet spot anyway.

 

[Malderon]

Zero disruption (for me) this morning, as Southern said, full timetable and my services and all services I could see at ECR were running On Time (well as on time as they ever do) and with normal length formations.

The embankment (or lack thereof) is an impressive site though - I meant to snap a picture through the window as I cruised through on the fast lines but completely forgot.

Impressed with how quickly everything got back up and running again looking at the damage.

 

[pendolino]

Zero disruption this morning, as Southern said, full timetable and my services and all services I could see at ECR were running On Time (well as on time as they ever do) and with normal length formations

Well there was some disruption first thing due to a lineside fire at Sanderstead, which disrupted East Grinstead and Uckfield services and couldn't have come at a worse time, but I think that was dealt with pretty quickly.

 

[ushawk]

New disruption now, been a person hit by a train at Clapham (although Southern are calling it an "operational incident"). Delays of 60 minutes at the moment with some trains going to London Bridge instead of Victoria