Flooding and Weather Disruption (Nov 2012)

[starrymarkb]

I'd suggest travelling earlier if possible. I've been advising people not to travel into Exeter this evening less they are not able to return later.... Looking at BBC travel I think I did the right thing (Cullompton, Crediton, Tiverton via the valley and North Dev Link and Exmouth roads are blocked.)

 

[12CSVT]

Line between Lancaster and Barrow is already closed.

It's not just the railways that are bad.

In fact one of these would come in useful in the Dalton / Ulverston area right now. (3 min 30 sec)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyd66sV4DXU&feature=related

 

[Eagle]

Well it can just stay around those parts as I've got to get to Edinburgh tomorrow on the ECML.

And I've got to get out of Edinburgh on the WCML.

Looking out of the train window today, there were a lot more rivers in southern Scotland than I remember...

 

[Ferret]

And I've got to get out of Edinburgh on the WCML.

Good luck with that!

 

[MadCommuter]

My commute this morning between Hamilton and Glasgow was completely unaffected by the high winds and torrential rain. Its a disgrace. I arrived on time, meaning I wasn't delayed in arriving at work. Its shocking how the transport network in this country can't make me late in that awful weather. Where can I complain?

 

[Ferret]

My commute this morning between Hamilton and Glasgow was completely unaffected by the high winds and torrential rain. Its a disgrace. I arrived on time, meaning I wasn't delayed in arriving at work. Its shocking how the transport network in this country can't make me late in that awful weather. Where can I complain?

Michael.fish@themetoffice.co.uk?

 

[michael769]

My commute this morning between Hamilton and Glasgow was completely unaffected by the high winds and torrential rain. Its a disgrace. I arrived on time, meaning I wasn't delayed in arriving at work. Its shocking how the transport network in this country can't make me late in that awful weather. Where can I complain?

The government. It cannot even get incompetence right now!

 

[Temple Meads]

Exeter is staffed throughout the night so I'm not sure they'd even let you stay on the platform.

The station is usually locked for a couple of hours between the two sleeper services.

Anyway, it looks like I'll be doing some rail replacement bus bashing tomorrow :P

 

[ushawk]

Looks like the wires are down at Watford - weather related ?

 

[quarella]

The stakes seem quite high given worst case scenario is a night on a platform (Well, a taxi at my cost would be more likely than that). I've got a few days yet so perhaps everything will be a bit more clear soon.

No obligation to do anything under conditions of carriage. "Beyond railway's control and all that." If they are benevolent there is also the issue of the state of the roads and a taxi company willing to make the journey/ hotel with space that FGW or other TOC use.
Finally and most importantly FGW have been advising NOT TO TRAVEL throughout this period.

 

[Goatboy]

Stopping a bus service half way to the destination of the train it's replacing could be argued to be not 'Beyond the railways control', mind.

We are, remember, talking about several days time not right now in the middle of a raging torrent of water. At what point do the delays stop being an act of nature and start being within the railways control? 4 days after the line closed it's probably fair to argue that contingency services would be expected to be in operation. On the day, fair enough. The day after, yea ok. But 4 days later?

I don't fancy the gamble either way so I'll probably go for an earlier train, but the 'advised not to travel' is always an irritating one. It's as if there is this impression people travel for the sake of it rather than because they need to get somewhere. Plus XC don't appear to be advising not to travel and it's an XC service....

 

[ushawk]

Stopping a bus service half way to the destination of the train it's replacing could be argued to be not 'Beyond the railways control', mind.

We are, remember, talking about several days time not right now in the middle of a raging torrent of water. At what point do the delays stop being an act of nature and start being within the railways control? 4 days after the line closed it's probably fair to argue that contingency services would be expected to be in operation. On the day, fair enough. The day after, yea ok. But 4 days later?

I don't fancy the gamble either way so I'll probably go for an earlier train, but the 'advised not to travel' is always an irritating one. It's as if there is this impression people travel for the sake of it rather than because they need to get somewhere. Plus XC don't appear to be advising not to travel and it's an XC service....

It will be within the railways control when repairs are able to start to be made. If conditions improve tomorrow, repairs could start but with the trackbed being washed away in locations - repairs wont be quick.

Passengers are being advised not to travel because of the delays - if you have a ticket i would have thought refunds would be given. XC arent running south of Bristol, so the advice not to travel wouldnt apply, regardless if you were due to use a XC service.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Well it didn't seem like anything more noteable than heavy drizzle in Birmingham this morning, unless it rained more heavily during the night. Even if it did, persistent rain for several hours is nothing out of the ordinary for November, and yet the roads and railways still can't cope.

It all depends on how saturated the ground already is.

 

[thelongestroad]

There has been a land slide between Bristol and Nailsea this evening. Line closed again.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Perhaps lifeboats should be provided on trains, at least in First class

Would the recently discussed "third class of travel" be privy to the use of this new facility, on payment of an upgrade..
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Due to flooding between Kilmarnock and Dumfries no trains were operating from Kilmarnock to Dumfries. Even tonight when I arrived back in Kilmarnock only platform 1 had no train.

Was it just flooding near to Dumfries or has any infrastructual damage also occured ? I have heard different stories about this area.

Has anyone on here any correct information ?

 

[davido39]

My commute this morning between Hamilton and Glasgow was completely unaffected by the high winds and torrential rain. Its a disgrace. I arrived on time, meaning I wasn't delayed in arriving at work. Its shocking how the transport network in this country can't make me late in that awful weather. Where can I complain?

Lots of flooding between Ireland and Scotland today, drivers are advised to use the boats provided! Oh - hold on...

 

[Goatboy]

It will be within the railways control when repairs are able to start to be made. If conditions improve tomorrow, repairs could start but with the trackbed being washed away in locations - repairs wont be quick.

It is within the railways control to offer alternative services - which they are now doing. The hypothetical situation in this thread would arise because the replacement service stopped short of the train it was replacing's intended destination for operational reasons.

The service is to Plymouth yet the bus replacing it runs as far as Exeter and there is no onward service because XC are running the Exeter to Plymouth part of the 21:44 to time from Exeter, meaning the service leaves Exeter over an HOUR before the bus carrying the connecting passengers from Bristol actually arrives in Exeter! Thats not a force of nature. There might be very good reasons why this is the case - but they are operational reasons (ie traincrew, etc) not non-railway reasons so therefore you'd expect them to try and do something to help people arriving from up North who end up stuck at Exeter off a bus after the last train has gone.

A genuine question - is there a reason the buses call all stations to Exeter? When there is engineering work they usually split them - one goes direct to the furthest onward point for connecting services and then others servce the intermediate stations. This is certainly the way it's set up to happen on the same stretch of line after February when work starts - the buses from Tiverton down do not call at intermediate stations which means the despite using a bus the effects on long distance journey times are minimised.

Passengers are being advised not to travel because of the delays

Not strictly true - FGW are advising not to travel 'unless neccesary' not 'at all'. They are not the same thing and a refund is of no use if you need to get from B to A.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There are now buses showing in the journey planner. Trouble is they all seem timetabled to arrive at Exeter from Bristol (Now direct, not via intermediate stations) about 10 minutes AFTER the train from Exeter to Plymouth leaves? Given that the services between Exeter and Plymouth are running as a special shuttle is it really a big ask for them to connect with buses from stations beyond Taunton?

Some amusing timetables in there though, there are apparently cancelled buses showing which would have gone from Bristol to Taunton in 6 minutes

 

[D1009]

The service is to Plymouth yet the bus replacing it runs as far as Exeter and there is no onward service because XC are running the Exeter to Plymouth part of the 21:44 to time from Exeter, meaning the service leaves Exeter over an HOUR before the bus carrying the connecting passengers from Bristol actually arrives in Exeter! Thats not a force of nature. There might be very good reasons why this is the case - but they are operational reasons (ie traincrew, etc) not non-railway reasons so therefore you'd expect them to try and do something to help people arriving from up North who end up stuck at Exeter off a bus after the last train has gone.

To be fair this is no different from when there is planned engineering work, if the line between Taunton and Exeter were blocked, there would normally be a train to Taunton with a connecting bus to Exeter, but XC rarely cover the last service with a bus to Plymouth as there would be very little demand, however if someone arrived at Exeter with a ticket to Plymouth, a taxi would usually be provided. Nevertheless TOCs do expect people to be aware of their amended plans. Seeing that it looks as though the railway will be unable to provide any kind of train service from Bristol to Plymouth on Saturday evening, have you considered getting a refund on your ticket and using the scheduled coach ? National Express route 532 departs Bristol Bus station at 2055 arriving Plymouth at 2335, also Megabus route M6 runs an overnight service.

 

[Goatboy]

Nevertheless TOCs do expect people to be aware of their amended plans.

They need to make them easily available if they expect people to be aware of them!

I've only been able to get some idea of what the plans are by making a string of shorter journey requests on the NRES site and stringing them together manually. If you stick the longer trip in for today, ie Bristol to Newton Abbot for example - it just lists a bunch of completely random trains (Which don't even appear to be the usual scheduled ones) and shows them all as cancelled.

Clearly there IS bus information in the planner, so why does it only list cancelled trains when clearly there is:

a) Buses running to Exeter
b) Trains running from Exeter

The line problems are unfortunate and nobodies fault, however when this sort of thing happens then high quality information provision is ESSENTIAL to minimise disruption.

 

[ushawk]

A genuine question - is there a reason the buses call all stations to Exeter? When there is engineering work they usually split them - one goes direct to the furthest onward point for connecting services and then others servce the intermediate stations. This is certainly the way it's set up to happen on the same stretch of line after February when work starts - the buses from Tiverton down do not call at intermediate stations which means the despite using a bus the effects on long distance journey times are minimised.

People are at stations in between as well !! I would assume there is a finite amount of buses they can get as companies of course have other requirements to meet, so that they dont leave services without a replacement service. Engineering works are planned a long time in advance so they have a high amount of buses, so they are able to run fast and slow buses.

Not strictly true - FGW are advising not to travel 'unless neccesary' not 'at all'. They are not the same thing and a refund is of no use if you need to get from B to A.

Unless necessary basically means passengers travelling for leisure and for work that isnt incredibly important shouldnt travel. If your stuck away from home or have an urgent need to travel, then there is a limited replacement with greatly extended journey times.

Answers in bold.

 

[jopsuk]

People are at stations in between as well !! I would assume there is a finite amount of buses they can get as companies of course have other requirements to meet, so that they dont leave services without a replacement service. Engineering works are planned a long time in advance so they have a high amount of buses, so they are able to run fast and slow buses.

Indeed. Most engineering works are at weekends, when bus companies run less services and the fleets used for school services etc lie idle.

Plus, even if the vehicles are available, getting the drivers at short notice may be tricky. Far less of a problem when you've planned it 3-4 months (or more) earlier.

 

[Goatboy]

Indeed. Most engineering works are at weekends, when bus companies run less services and the fleets used for school services etc lie idle.

Plus, even if the vehicles are available, getting the drivers at short notice may be tricky. Far less of a problem when you've planned it 3-4 months (or more) earlier.

They are now operating direct coaches with no stops at intermediate stations, which is good. Whats bad is they don't appear timed to connect with onward trains, often timed to arrive 10 minutes after a train leaves

However i have now found a backup National Express coach from Exeter at 1am which is a useful alternative should it all go horribly wrong

 

[D1009]

Just heard there was 2 feet of water inside the relay room at Cowley Bridge!

 

[Goatboy]

Alternatives are looking better now too - NRES now offering a range of alternative itiniaries for today involving the replacement buses. Journey times extended by an hour that seems fair enough (Although looking at the timings 90% of the extra time taken is actually a wait at Exeter St Davids as the replacement buses arrive 10 minutes after the hourly evening shuttle to Plym leaves, doh, had they syncronised it a bit better there would be very similar journey times to normal I'd imagine).

Tommorrow is still showing scheduled trains but I'd imagine they'll update that soon, too.

 

[CC 72100]

Just on a replacement bus from Exeter now. Feared the worst when I was stood in the queue next to pumpkin on platform 1, must have timed it right as on a bus within 15-20 minutes.

 

[philjo]

Network Rail video clip on this BBC news report shows the line near Axminster :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20458562

 

[Ferret]

Just heard there was 2 feet of water inside the relay room at Cowley Bridge!

That photo that was posted on Network Rail's twitter account gave quite an appreciation of the scale of the problem!

Just going back to what you were saying yesterday, I saw the Train Manager for the 1412 ex Birmingham easrlier. He has a 5 hour fester in Bristol this afternoon. Of course, this doesn't mean there is either a unit available or a driver available to extend a train to Taunton, and I suspect he's the only one who has such a long wait. It did cause a wry smile to appear on my face though!

 

[ushawk]

Network Rail video clip on this BBC news report shows the line near Axminster :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20458562

Im fairly sure there was flooding/track washed away at the same place earlier this year - something might have to be done if it keeps happening.

 

[D1009]

That photo that was posted on Network Rail's twitter account gave quite an appreciation of the scale of the problem!

Just going back to what you were saying yesterday, I saw the Train Manager for the 1412 ex Birmingham easrlier. He has a 5 hour fester in Bristol this afternoon. Of course, this doesn't mean there is either a unit available or a driver available to extend a train to Taunton, and I suspect he's the only one who has such a long wait. It did cause a wry smile to appear on my face though!

Yes, thinking on I wonder whether Flax Bourton being a known trouble spot may have had something to do with it as well. You wouldn't want a unit to run to Taunton to have it trapped there! If it goes on for any length of time, hopefully the train planners should be able to sort out a service to Taunton, they seem to manage it for planned engineering work.

 

[Ferret]

Yes, I think with enough notice, you can plan for a service to Taunton, the problem is resourcing sufficient drivers I'd say - as Zoe says, Plymouth drivers sign to Brum, but Brummies don't sign beyond Bristol, so the only people who can drive beyond Bristol are Bristol men, as it stands. There's 3 Voyagers trapped west of Exeter that are keeping the Plymouth men busy.

We'll have to see what tomorrow brings with the weather - any further flooding could well set things back a lot.