Flight late arriving - advanced ticket

[Malton Seadog]

Hi all,

Many apologies if this has been asked before.

I am flying back to Stansted in November with a scheduled arrival time of 15:55.

I have a choice of an Advance ticket back to Doncaster departing at either 17:25 or 18:25.

My first question is - which of those would you go for if it were you? 1.5 hours or 2.5 hours after the scheduled arrival time? I will only have hand luggage, so no baggage reclaim process.

My next question is - if I booked the 17:25 train, and my flight was 90 minutes late - could I get on the next train with my Advance ticket? Do airport stations have special rules regarding flexibility in case of late flights?

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi all,

Many apologies if this has been asked before.

I am flying back to Stansted in November with a scheduled arrival time of 15:55.

I have a choice of an Advance ticket back to Doncaster departing at either 17:25 or 18:25.

My first question is - which of those would you go for if it were you? 1.5 hours or 2.5 hours after the scheduled arrival time? I will only have hand luggage, so no baggage reclaim process.

My next question is - if I booked the 17:25 train, and my flight was 90 minutes late - could I get on the next train with my Advance ticket? Do airport stations have special rules regarding flexibility in case of late flights?

It's up to you how much redundancy you build in to your trip, but Manchester Airport TPE Advance tickets will be valid up to 3 hours after the booked time. I don't think such an arrangement exists at Stansted, although others may be able to confirm/deny.

Have you checked your travel insurance? Some good policies will cover this sort of thing.

 

[cuccir]

I'm afraid that there's no safety net with regards to delayed flights and advance tickets (other than the Manchester Airport deal mentioned above). If you are late you may have to buy a completely new ticket, with no discount for what you have previously paid.

Buying advance tickets for after flights basically involves taking the risk that you might be late and have to buy new tickets!*

How much are your advances, how many are travelling and on what dates? There may be people here who can advise you on options which are cheaper than the walk-on through fares from Stansted to Doncaster, without taking the same risks as an advance ticket.


* Of course, staff CAN always use their discretion to let you travel, or to just upgrade your ticket, particularly if you can approach a guard before boarding. But that's essentially a lottery based on a whole range of factors!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....My next question is - if I booked the 17:25 train, and my flight was 90 minutes late - could I get on the next train with my Advance ticket? Do airport stations have special rules regarding flexibility in case of late flights?

In this case no.

It's up to you how much redundancy you build in to your trip, but Manchester Airport TPE Advance tickets will be valid up to 3 hours after the booked time....

TPE use special 'Airport Advance' fares from Manchester Airport and Lpool Airport Bus that allow later travel if the flight is delayed (tickets should be endorsed by the ticket office). It is not a general easement to my knowledge.

 

[exile]

This sort of thing tends to get me steamed up. By travelling on a later train you are not actually costing the TOC any money. If the reason you are late is beyond your control (not due to you sleeping through your alarm) then you shouldn't be penalised. All you should have to do is provide evidence that your flight was delayed.

Of course if you are late for a flight due to a late train you're unlikely to get much change out of the airline either.

 

[yorkie]

Seek staff, and you may be shown discretion. I recall one guard who works on that route who is on this forum stating he would show discretion! If ticket office staff won't endorse it, I'd then ask the guard nicely, as ultimately it is up to the guard (not always possible at barriered stations, admittedly).

This country has a proud history of implementing non-integrated transport, and I cannot see that changing any time soon. (OT, but yesterday I got a preserved train that was booked into a mainline station at xx41, the last mainline train for 2 hours departed at.... xx38. It's a way of life in this country, and it's the same with buses. I think that the intention is to encourage people to drive as much as possible, but of course no-one will admit it).

 

[exile]

Seek staff, and you may be shown discretion. I recall one guard who works on that route who is on this forum stating he would show discretion! If ticket office staff won't endorse it, I'd then ask the guard nicely, as ultimately it is up to the guard (not always possible at barriered stations, admittedly).

This country has a proud history of implementing non-integrated transport, and I cannot see that changing any time soon. (OT, but yesterday I got a preserved train that was booked into a mainline station at xx41, the last mainline train for 2 hours departed at.... xx38. It's a way of life in this country, and it's the same with buses. I think that the intention is to encourage people to drive as much as possible, but of course no-one will admit it).

Bill Bryson made a similar point about the lack of connections between the then BR (or to be exact, BR rail replacement bus) and the Festiniog Railway! That seems to have been sorted now at least, given by my experience recently.

Sometimes things work out - the Transpeak today got into Buxton 35 minutes late (heavy Bank Holiday traffic) - meaning we only had to wait 15 minutes for the train instead of 50!

 

[tony_mac]

Of course if you are late for a flight due to a late train you're unlikely to get much change out of the airline either.

Would you believe that they put you on the next available flight? (With an 'admin' fee).

It is a sad state of affairs that the railway can be even less flexible than Ryanair!

 

[exile]

Would you believe that they put you on the next available flight? (With an 'admin' fee).

It is a sad state of affairs that the railway can be even less flexible than Ryanair!

Last time I was charged an admin fee (to change the name on a ticket) it was as much as my original flight cost.
TBH airlines have a better excuse given they are more likely to be "full up" than a train.

 

[Flamingo]

I know that booking office staff will advise people NOT to buy Advance tickets if they are arriving off a flight.

The T&C of Advance tickets are pretty clear. If anybody missed the train because the plane was late, then that is something to take up with the airline, or claim the extra cost on travel insurance if possible.

If the plane arrived early, well the booking office will change the Advance ticket for a £10 admin fee plus any difference in price. Or I will on-board if asked before boarding.

I'm afraid I don't differentiate between airline delays, and non-turning up taxi's, over-running meetings or missed alarm clocks.

 

[exile]

I know that booking office staff will advise people NOT to buy Advance tickets if they are arriving off a flight.

The T&C of Advance tickets are pretty clear. If anybody missed the train because the plane was late, then that is something to take up with the airline, or claim the extra cost on travel insurance if possible.

If the plane arrived early, well the booking office will change the Advance ticket for a £10 admin fee plus any difference in price. Or I will on-board if asked before boarding.

I'm afraid I don't differentiate between airline delays, and non-turning up taxi's, over-running meetings or missed alarm clocks.

And you're correct - under the current rules. It shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to link an airline ticket to a train ticket in the same way that international train or airline tickets can be chained together with the rule "passenger is allowed on next flight/train with a spare seat".

 

[Flamingo]

And when several hundred international airlines and ATOC can come to an agreement, I'm sure that will happen.

I'm sure it would have to be reciprocal, with passengers who are on delayed trains allowed to jump on the next flight.

I would not like to be the person involved in trying to negotiate it. I would say that if you could get agreement, then you would qualify for something pretty senior in the UN!

 

[exile]

And when several hundred international airlines and ATOC can come to an agreement, I'm sure that will happen.

I'm sure it would have to be reciprocal, with passengers who are on delayed trains allowed to jump on the next flight.

I would not like to be the person involved in trying to negotiate it. I would say that if you could get agreement, then you would qualify for something pretty senior in the UN!

It's already been done for train journeys into Europe - if you buy a ticket to London International you are covered for missing a connection to/from Eurostar.

 

[Flamingo]

It's already been done for train journeys into Europe - if you buy a ticket to London International you are covered for missing a connection to/from Eurostar.

Eurostar = one company operating under English / French contract law.

Do you know how many airlines serve the UK? And how many countries they come from?

You are not even comparing apples and pears with this one, mate - more like an apple and a whole farmers market!

 

[laird]

What cover does your travel insurance include, going from train to plane is usually covered if delayed but not sure if it will cover plane to train in the same way?

 

[Flamingo]

I suppose it's in the small print and may vary from policy to policy.

 

[richw]

What cover does your travel insurance include, going from train to plane is usually covered if delayed but not sure if it will cover plane to train in the same way?

I have an annual travel policy and it states it covers from leaving my house until I return, as long as I wasn't aware of travel problems or mechanical fault with car before departure from home. My policy however is quite comprehensive however due to my regular travel, so couldn't comment on whether it is the norm to have home to home cover

 

[yorkie]

Eurostar = one company operating under English / French contract law.

It's not a Eurostar thing though, it's CIV, you are covered from anywhere to anywhere. Technically if I was to buy from York I should buy to "London International" as "London Terminals" doesn't count (unlike a York - Cardiff journey where I could split at "London Terminals" to be covered under domestic rules)

 

[Skarpur]

In the days of MML I had a flight home cancelled and was put on the next plane meaning I missed my booked train from St Pancras to Sheffield. I went to the ticket office and asked them what I could do, the woman in the ticket office wanted some proof of it being cancelled, all I had was a text message off BA stating my flight was cancelled, but I was allowed on the next train. Granted it was about 8pm at the time so might have been a different answer had I tried in rush hour!

 

[WelshBluebird]

This country has a proud history of implementing non-integrated transport, and I cannot see that changing any time soon. (OT, but yesterday I got a preserved train that was booked into a mainline station at xx41, the last mainline train for 2 hours departed at.... xx38. It's a way of life in this country, and it's the same with buses. I think that the intention is to encourage people to drive as much as possible, but of course no-one will admit it).

There are so many examples of similar occurrences it is madness. Even worse is when, like the OP, you should be fine but a delay out of your control means you are late. Even worse is when it is the same company who operate the delayed method of transport! (If a First bus is late, why should First trains not help me out? It is total and utter madness).

edit:
Don't get me wrong, I understand that taking such things into account would be quite difficult and would risk opening the railways up to greater fraud, but it is total madness that we have such a situation. It really is.

 

[cuccir]

What I find interesting is that TOCs/Airlines haven't teamed up in individual deals to offer exclusive through tickets with delay guarantees.

To take Stansted as an example: If Cross Country and Ryanair (again, as examples) were to team up and offer a ticket, with guaranteed travel if you are late, to and from any station on the XC network, for a fee that is slightly higher than the standard advance fare, I'd bet that a lot of people would take up the deal, benefiting both firms. You'd probably get more people travelling further to use the airline, and more people travelling to the airport via train. What's to lose?

 

[LexyBoy]

(OT, but yesterday I got a preserved train that was booked into a mainline station at xx41, the last mainline train for 2 hours departed at.... xx38. It's a way of life in this country, and it's the same with buses. I think that the intention is to encourage people to drive as much as possible, but of course no-one will admit it).

Have you written to the preserved line pointing this out? Most preserved lines are keen to encourage people to arrive by train where possible, so I'd hope they would consider revising their timetables by ten minutes or so.

 

[Flamingo]

It's not a Eurostar thing though, it's CIV, you are covered from anywhere to anywhere. Technically if I was to buy from York I should buy to "London International" as "London Terminals" doesn't count (unlike a York - Cardiff journey where I could split at "London Terminals" to be covered under domestic rules)

I'm not sure of how the deal works with Eurostar, but systems are in place between rail companies (eg FIP passes), making a similar deal with the numerous airlines serving the UK would be a huge task, and TBH there is nothing in it for either side to go through the trouble and effort to do so.

 

[All Line Rover]

In this instance I fully agree with Flamingo about the issue of buying Advance tickets.

Flights are never guaranteed to arrive on time. Advance tickets are designed for people who can commit to travelling on a specific train - no ifs, no buts. It is not at all wise to buy an Advance ticket if you are arriving on a plane.

You can still look at split-ticketing options to bring the cost of the train ticket down - significantly in many cases.

 

[Flamingo]

There is also the view expressed by my colleague, that if they can afford to go abroad, they can afford to buy a flexible train ticket!

(retreats to bunker, closes lid)

 

[tony_mac]

and a flexible ticket quite possibly costs more than the flight!

All this does is force people to drive to the airport, when they could possibly be persuaded to travel by train - it doesn't seem to be causing Transpennine masses of problems to have a more relaxed rule.

 

[All Line Rover]

There is also the view expressed by my colleague, that if they can afford to go abroad, they can afford to buy a flexible train ticket!

(retreats to bunker, closes lid)

I was also going to say that, but certain people on this forum may express their disagreement.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

and a flexible ticket quite possibly costs more than the flight!

All this does is force people to drive to the airport, when they could possibly be persuaded to travel by train - it doesn't seem to be causing Transpennine masses of problems to have a more relaxed rule.

It has caused them to raise Advance ticket prices to/from Manchester Airport. They're not having any problems because the increased prices act as an "insurance policy!"

 

[tony_mac]

It has caused them to raise Advance ticket prices to/from Manchester Airport

Has it?

Tickets from Manchester airport do cost more than from Manchester (£1-£1.50 from my quick look), but it's a longer journey.

Tickets from Liverpool South Parkway (which has the same guarantee), cost less than from Liverpool (by £2-£2.50), but that's a shorter journey.

and if they did charge a little more, why would that be a problem?

 

[Flamingo]

and a flexible ticket quite possibly costs more than the flight!

So?

All this does is force people to drive to the airport,

So should they be given free train travel just because they are going for a flight?

 

[tony_mac]

So?

So your argument that 'if they can afford to fly then they can afford the flexible ticket' is completely frivolous, but you knew that when you posted it.

So should they be given free train travel just because they are going for a flight?

huh, where did I imply that?

The only point I am making is that it seems to make business sense to sell 'slightly' flexible tickets to people going to/from airports. As otherwise they will probably take some other form of transport and no revenue is gained at all.