Flats on the Picc

[Mutant Lemming]

Is there any correlation between the excessive amounts of flats on 73 stock and the training/utilisation of new inexperienced drivers for Night Tube ? These trains have been operating for over 40 years without any high incidences of pitted wheels necessitating such a large withdrawal of trains from service.

 

[Nym]

The had exactly the same issue this time last year, and to a lesser extent the year before...

 

[swt class 450]

I find it rather appalling that there has been no train services at all between Ealing Common and Rayners Lane for the past few days because of this. Surely they could at the very least run an Ealing Common to Rayners Lane (or Acton Town to Rayners Lane if it is easier) shuttle service once an hour in each direction using just one train.

 

[Mojo]

I find it rather appalling that there has been no train services at all between Ealing Common and Rayners Lane for the past few days because of this. Surely they could at the very least run an Ealing Common to Rayners Lane (or Acton Town to Rayners Lane if it is easier) shuttle service once an hour in each direction using just one train.

Since Monday there has been a four train shuttle Acton - Rayners using trains operating under a concession because they have extreme flats that would not normally be serviceable. Four trains is really the minimum you can get away with.

 

[MatthewRead]

Hope this problem is solved by Christmas when the western branches of the District line are closed and they'll be no service between Acton Town and Embankment. We'll be relying on the Piccadilly line then!

 

[Nym]

Hope this problem is solved by Christmas when the western branches of the District line are closed and they'll be no service between Acton Town and Embankment. We'll be relying on the Piccadilly line then!

Keep up that hope...

I doubt it will be sorted by then, we have rather a leafy year and the oak leaves haven't fallen yet.

 

[Dstock7080]

Hope this problem is solved by Christmas when the western branches of the District line are closed and they'll be no service between Acton Town and Embankment. We'll be relying on the Piccadilly line then!

The Christmas closure is Acton Town/ Richmond/ Wimbledon/ Olympia-Gloucester Road; with a special service operating Edgware Road-Upminster via Victoria.
Piccadilly Line trains will call at all stations Acton Town-Hammersmith.

 

[Nym]

The Christmas closure is Acton Town/ Richmond/ Wimbledon/ Olympia-Gloucester Road; with a special service operating Edgware Road-Upminster via Victoria.
Piccadilly Line trains will call at all stations Acton Town-Hammersmith.

So, like last year again, that will be SPADs'R'Us...?

Spend your whole career looking at the right hand side signals, it's a very difficult habit to get out of. Especially at night, with the glow worm in jam jar headlights the 73TS has.

 

[swt class 450]

Since Monday there has been a four train shuttle Acton - Rayners using trains operating under a concession because they have extreme flats that would not normally be serviceable. Four trains is really the minimum you can get away with.

Ah ok. That is good to hear that there are now at least some services.

 

[RJ]

Is there any correlation between the excessive amounts of flats on 73 stock and the training/utilisation of new inexperienced drivers for Night Tube ? These trains have been operating for over 40 years without any high incidences of pitted wheels necessitating such a large withdrawal of trains from service.

I doubt it. They don't cover the Rayners branch, which is mostly where the problem with railhead conditions lies.

 

[MatthewRead]

The Christmas closure is Acton Town/ Richmond/ Wimbledon/ Olympia-Gloucester Road; with a special service operating Edgware Road-Upminster via Victoria.
Piccadilly Line trains will call at all stations Acton Town-Hammersmith.

If they're aren't enough Piccadilly line trains running during that time then might it be an idea to run the District line as far as Hammersmith and use the reversing siding I'm sure D stock trains have used it before and it would be great to have them on the fast line as well. This way it doesn't hold up the Piccadilly line trains which could run on the slow line as far as Hammersmith.

 

[Nym]

With the 10 D Stock trains left that the picc drivers can't drive and the district drivers don't have route knowledge for?

 

[MatthewRead]

With the 10 D Stock trains left that the picc drivers can't drive and the district drivers don't have route knowledge for?

But it's still the same section of track so I don't see why they should have Picc drivers should have to drive the D stock it's not like they are running to Northfields that would be a different story.

 

[Nym]

But it's still the same section of track so I don't see why they should have Picc drivers should have to drive the D stock it's not like they are running to Northfields that would be a different story.

Read up, last time they drove picc on district lines, it was SPADs R Us... I expect it would be the same if opposite.

 

[RJ]

I find it rather appalling that there has been no train services at all between Ealing Common and Rayners Lane for the past few days because of this. Surely they could at the very least run an Ealing Common to Rayners Lane (or Acton Town to Rayners Lane if it is easier) shuttle service once an hour in each direction using just one train.

Rayners to Acton Town cycle can't be done in an hour. Once you factor in detrainment, siding reversals and conflictions at both ends, plus whatever restrictions are imposed on trains with square wheels, it's not going to happen.

 

[Lrd]

I doubt it. They don't cover the Rayners branch, which is mostly where the problem with railhead conditions lies.

Just because Night Tube doesn't run on the Uxbridge branch doesn't mean that Night Tube drivers won't know it. All drivers will learn the whole line.

 

[MatthewRead]

Read up, last time they drove picc on district lines, it was SPADs R Us... I expect it would be the same if opposite.

I don't know what that all means I know SPAD means (Siganal Passed At Danger) but surely it's no different to running Piccadilly line trains on the District line tracks

 

[bluegoblin7]

Just because Night Tube doesn't run on the Uxbridge branch doesn't mean that Night Tube drivers won't know it. All drivers will learn the whole line.

And a number of the turns see Night Tube staff doing a trip up/down the branch at either the start or end of the shift.

Besides - NT hasn't started yet on the Picc. Beyond the training of new drivers, it will have had no impact on the worsened conditions this year.

In other news, a 73TS went to Neasden yesterday via Harrow-on-the-Hill to use the wheel lathe there. I don't know if further trips are planned.

 

[Nym]

I don't know what that all means I know SPAD means (Siganal Passed At Danger) but surely it's no different to running Piccadilly line trains on the District line tracks

It did happen last time they ran picc trains on the district. Many SPADs because the operators are used to observing the other signals.

 

[MatthewRead]

It did happen last time they ran picc trains on the district. Many SPADs because the operators are used to observing the other signals.

But if the Piccadilly is stopping at all intermediates stations between Hammersmith and Acton Town then they have to use the District line tracks my suggestion was that if they're aren't enough Piccadilly line trains in service then they could at least run a reduced District line service as far as Hammersmith and use the center reversing siding there or is that just not possible?

 

[Nym]

But if the Piccadilly is stopping at all intermediates stations between Hammersmith and Acton Town then they have to use the District line tracks my suggestion was that if they're aren't enough Piccadilly line trains in service then they could at least run a reduced District line service as far as Hammersmith and use the center reversing siding there or is that just not possible?

Nope...

West Kensington or Lillie Bridge.

 

[MatthewRead]

Nope...

West Kensington or Lillie Bridge.

So what your saying is District line trains have never used that siding east of Hammersmith station?

 

[Dstock7080]

So what your saying is District line trains have never used that siding east of Hammersmith station?

Trains on the eastbound local (District) track cannot access Hammersmith siding.
Westbound trains from Barons Court can access Hammersmith siding.

S Stock trains cannot stop at intermediate stations between Acton Town & Hammersmith on the FAST (Piccadilly) lines because there is no platform equipment to open the train doors or in cab CCTV coverage of the platform/train interface.

 

[adrock1976]

And a number of the turns see Night Tube staff doing a trip up/down the branch at either the start or end of the shift.

Besides - NT hasn't started yet on the Picc. Beyond the training of new drivers, it will have had no impact on the worsened conditions this year.

In other news, a 73TS went to Neasden yesterday via Harrow-on-the-Hill to use the wheel lathe there. I don't know if further trips are planned.

Would the Piccadilly Line 73TS have gone something like via the crossovers on the eastbound approach to Hammersmith to the outer track, then via Victoria, Liverpool Street, Kings Cross, and Baker Street onto Metropolitan Railway metals to Harrow-on-the-Hill?

 

[bluegoblin7]

Would the Piccadilly Line 73TS have gone something like via the crossovers on the eastbound approach to Hammersmith to the outer track, then via Victoria, Liverpool Street, Kings Cross, and Baker Street onto Metropolitan Railway metals to Harrow-on-the-Hill?

No. The much simpler left turn at Rayners Lane.

 

[rebmcr]

London Reconnections have today published an article on the subject.

....overall leaf drop had been relatively low until Angus arrived. The storm, plus the sudden change in weather it partly brought about, changed this situation effectively overnight. The result was an unprecedented level of leaf drop in a short period that seems to have quickly exceeded a level that the Piccadilly line’s mitigation could cope with. No doubt other factors than Angus will surface during TfL’s own investigation as to what has caused such an unprecedented level of rolling stock disruption on the line. That Angus and leaves have been such a factor, however, seems relatively clear....

 

[Rup]

According to railtechnologymagazine.com ...

"http://www.railtechnologymagazine....piccadilly-line-despite-unions-safety-fears"]

Mick Cash, general secretary of the RMT, said the problems had been happening since the 43-year old trains had their wheels replaced and “could take weeks” to fix.

Rumour has it the new wheels use inferior Chinese steel.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Has this work been completed yet and if not when is it expected to be complete?

 

[Dstock7080]

Has this work been completed yet and if not when is it expected to be complete?

A full service was able to be provided before Christmas, the 25mph temporary speed restrictions were however only lifted last weekend.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

A full service was able to be provided before Christmas, the 25mph temporary speed restrictions were however only lifted last weekend.

Thanks for the update.