Flam Railway

[ExRes]

Afternoon all, we have just booked a future cruise which has an early November visit to Flam in the itinerary, presumably the cruise line will be offering a rail trip up the mountains with a visit to Kjosfossen waterfall, I was wondering if anyone has experience of this excursion destination and whether it was worthwhile or one of those overcrowded and over hyped wastes of time and money

Grateful for any views either way, thanks in advance

 

[Class172]

I visited the Flåm valley a couple of years ago at the end of October; it’s an absolutely stunning location overall. I only did the train in one direction as I hiked the other, but from what I recall the southbound (ascending) train makes an extended stop by default at the waterfall. There is a large built out platform to enable viewing—I think we stopped for about 10 minutes.

 

[Gloster]

The whole operation is very tourist orientated, but the falls are supposed to be worth the visit, particularly if the extortionate prices are included in your package price. However, don’t think that the Flåm line is a typical Norwegian railway: it once was, but it is now a tourist operation which just tolerates a few local passengers as it is tied up with the local council.

 

[thejuggler]

We visited Flam about 17-18 years ago also on a cruise. Rather than the basic return trip we took a whole day out which was a coach to Voss, through some amazing scenery and tunnels, time in Voss with a full lunch, service train Voss to Myrdal, train back to Flam. This was however during the summer, it was mid 20s in Voss, bright sunshine. November isn't the month to spend sitting alongside the lake!

If you just want the rail trip it is far cheaper to book tickets yourself. However I seem to remember a lot of the trip is in tunnels and snow protection shelters so views are limited.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

I visited the Flåm valley a couple of years ago at the end of October; it’s an absolutely stunning location overall. I only did the train in one direction as I hiked the other, but from what I recall the southbound (ascending) train makes an extended stop by default at the waterfall. There is a large built out platform to enable viewing—I think we stopped for about 10 minutes.

Yes, the waterfall stop is in the uphill direction - in high summer there is also a 'troll' live performance which is all very irritating if you just want to make the main-line connection. Nevertheless the railway is spectactular and worth doing in its own right. If you are brave you can take the train up and hire a bike to ride down - it is returned to the summit for you.

Flam is a bit of a tourist trap these days - trinkets and tat for cruise passengers. I first did the line in 1982 when it still had a through sleeping car from Oslo and connecting steamers on the fjord.

 

[Nigel]

Flåm is in a beautiful setting, but my experience is that when a cruise ship calls it is overrun with tourists which detracts from its loveliness. Trains in both directions stop at the Kjosfossen waterfall for about five minutes for a photo opportunity. Personally, I got most enjoyment by going on a hike from Flåm to the Brekkefossen waterfall, which took about a couple of hours for the round trip. An account of my time there can be found here: https://europeexplored.travel.blog/...d-trip-13-denmark-and-norway-part-two-norway/

 

[ExRes]

Thanks @Class172 @Gloster @thejuggler @Sir Felix Pole @Nigel your answers are much appreciated

 

[jupiter]

A couple of times staying in Bergen I’ve taken the service train to Myrdal then the Flåm railway downhill and afternoon fast ferry back to Bergen. It’s a great day out, but I always check the cruise ship itinerary for the little port as when cruise ships are in the railway is heaving.

It‘s an experience, that railway never should be there, an almost impossible engineering task. There’s a little museum too to keep you amused for 20 minutes.

 

[Gloster]

If you just want the rail trip it is far cheaper to book tickets yourself. However I seem to remember a lot of the trip is in tunnels and snow protection shelters so views are limited.

There are twenty-one snow sheds totalling 1099 m., all between Kjosfossen and Myrdal, and there are twenty tunnels totalling 5805 m. spread through the 20.2 km. line: the two total up to over one-third of it. It is effectively continuous climbing from two kilometres out of Flåm to Myrdal except for a short easing through the site of the former Dalsbotn halt.

Source: Bandedata 2013.

 

[Russel]

The Flam railway has been something I've wanted to do for a long time, what surprises me is how it's electrified, when you compare it to the UK where it would be operated by an hourly 2 car DMU.

 

[Gloster]

The Flam railway has been something I've wanted to do for a long time, what surprises me is how it's electrified, when you compare it to the UK where it would be operated by an hourly 2 car DMU.

It is basically operated to serve the passengers visiting on the cruise ships, so you need sufficient capacity to cope with the peaks of a very irregular demand. If you used EMUs you would tie up several sets, most of which would just sit there most of the time.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The line was planned to be electrified from the start (although steam did operate during the German occupation) due to the very severe gradients (1:18 at one point). Electrification here predated that on the Bergen - Oslo main-line.

 

[Russel]

It is basically operated to serve the passengers visiting on the cruise ships, so you need sufficient capacity to cope with the peaks of a very irregular demand. If you used EMUs you would tie up several sets, most of which would just sit there most of the time.

This is the thing though, if it was a line in the UK, we just wouldn't cater for it, look at the recent threads about the Skegness line where the peaks and troughs are known and predictable, or CrossCountry running 4/5 car Voyagers to Southampton which sees it's fair share of cruise ships, or Whitby only getting a handful of trains a day during peak summer.

 

[Gloster]

This is the thing though, if it was a line in the UK, we just wouldn't cater for it, look at the recent threads about the Skegness line where the peaks and troughs are known and predictable, or CrossCountry running 4/5 car Voyagers to Southampton which sees it's fair share of cruise ships, or Whitby only getting a handful of trains a day during peak summer.

The thing is that it is outside the main service groups and is operated on a special contract, but this arrangement comes to an end at the end of 2027 and it seems likely that the line will have to operate fully commercially thereafter. Whether the owners of the operating company, which is intended to develop tourism in the area, can support it we shall see.

 

[tram21]

I've done the line. I personally don't agree that its the world's most scenic railway- sure it's up there but not at the top, I suppose it depends what you call scenic!!
But it truly is an unforgettable experience, especially the incline and it all being electrified. Seeing all the infrastructure is fantastic!

And you get a 10 minute (guaranteed I think) pause at the waterfall. This was long enough and gave you time to have a look at the train etc a bit more as well!

All in all I recommend it!

 

[westcoaster]

There is an awesome YouTube channel
RailCowGirl https://youtube.com/@railcowgirl?si=8gWlmT4pWTkxNSjr

Cab views of all the lines between Bergen and Oslo and also up and down the Flam line in all weather from sun to rain and snow.
There is also one of her videos where she stops at a hidden room ( siding) inside a long tunnel, think it's a triangle/ turntable to turn vehicles.

Just checked it's a massive cavern under a mountain with a turntable in it

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The thing is that it is outside the main service groups and is operated on a special contract, but this arrangement comes to an end at the end of 2027 and it seems likely that the line will have to operate fully commercially thereafter. Whether the owners of the operating company, which is intended to develop tourism in the area, can support it we shall see.

The track is still owned by the Norwegian equivalent of Network Rail and the trains operated by Vy (NSB) so if it comes to the worst it will have to be fully nationalised once again.

I can't imagine closure being contemplated - although Norway does have a blind spot about its railways, prefering to spend its oil wealth on roads. There were a nasty batch of branch line closures in the '80s including the scenic Hardanger line from Voss. Even the Oslo - Bergen line is crying out for investment - a long planned cutoff line to shorten journey times still hasn't materialised.

 

[Gloster]

The track is still owned by the Norwegian equivalent of Network Rail and the trains operated by Vy (NSB) so if it comes to the worst it will have to be fully nationalised once again.

I can't imagine closure being contemplated - although Norway does have a blind spot about its railways, prefering to spend its oil wealth on roads. There were a nasty batch of branch line closures in the '80s including the scenic Hardanger line from Voss. Even the Oslo - Bergen line is crying out for investment - a long planned cutoff line to shorten journey times still hasn't materialised.

But Vy are operating on a contract and they have no obligation to continue after the contract ends. Vy is now at arms length from Samferdselsdepartementet and is not really an Operator of Last Resort. As the government has made clear it will no longer support the line, it will be left to Flåmsbana AS, the former Flåm Utvikling, to make up any deficit. Flåmsbana AS is owned by Vygruppen AS and Norways best Group AS, but both are commercial operations. The question is whether they can: if they can’t it goes back to the ministry to do something or they find they don’t have an operator.

 

[CW2]

I did it in June last year, out and back from Bergen before joining the Hurtigruten cruise to Kirkenes.
The trains run with top-and-tail class EL18 electric locos, both powering. If you choose your trains carefully you can have one pair out for a different pair back.
A thoroughly enjoyable day, not cheap, but worth it.

 

[FOH]

If you are going on a cruise then I recommend taking the package. We thought we'd get off early from the ship and just buy a ticket on the railway rather than the overpriced on board sale but there wasn't a single departure available before the ship left again

 

[ExRes]

If you are going on a cruise then I recommend taking the package. We thought we'd get off early from the ship and just buy a ticket on the railway rather than the overpriced on board sale but there wasn't a single departure available before the ship left again

Experience from previous cruises certainly backs your recommendation, I shall be checking the cruise line site regularly leading up to the beginning of shore excursion bookings

 

[RailWonderer]

I did it two years ago in early October, sit on the right hand side in direction of travel from Myrdal for the best views. It looks like a more exotic version of the Scottish highlands in places, but the waterfalls and fjords are so dramatic, you won't ever forget it.

 

[MartinC]

The bookshop in Myrdal stocks an English language book on the history of the line

 

[Gloster]

The bookshop in Myrdal stocks an English language book on the history of the line

It looks as though the author, who died in 2020, was a local general jobbing author and journalist, not a railway specialist. It is probably more of a general history for tourists, rather than a detailed railway one: it might still be what you want, but detailed railway information is likely to only be available in a Norwegian book.

 

[Killingworth]

I first travelled the line in August 1964 when it was cold and trying to snow. There were American tourists but the boats at Flam were small. The line was completed after the German occupation and the locomotive we travelled behind was one of the original electrics. There's a small museum at Flam where a twin is displayed. The Wiki entry is good; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flåm_Line



]

We visited most recently in June 2024. It's changed! The sun shone. There were masses of tourists as a large cruise liner was at Flam. The little ferry steamers from Gudvangen are replaced by fast ferries to Bergen and along the fjord. Back then there was no road into Flam. Today there are tunnels everywhere in Norway, including
from Gudvangen to Flam - to be continued.

 

[Killingworth]

Continued. Map as it was in 1964. The mountains are still the same but by 2024 man had made a few changes to roads.



Today there are longer and more modern trains to cope with all the tourists. We used the Bergen - Oslo railway and a fast ferry from Bergen to Flam. Personally I'm not for big cruise liners, but my aunt and uncle who took their car on tiny vessels, slung aboard or driven up 2 planks, in 1949 would say we also missed real Norway

 

[BeeBus]

I travelled the line about two years ago in a gorgeous spring where I could see everything. Fine weather isn't guaranteed, unfortunately! I really enjoyed the trip and found it beneficial to have gone in the museum first so that you understand better what you're seeing. The attached photo shows a train starting the descent at Myrdal and you can see the grade which is steep, even though my zoom lens at 140mm does exaggerate the effect a little.

I would also strongly recommend a visit from Flåm to Undredal as it is a gorgeous village in a stunning setting and has a tiny Stave Church. We had difficulty getting there as one of the two ferry boats to and from Gudvangen couldn't stop there for some reason and it wasn't possible to plan a worthwhile day trip. I ended up taking a taxi there to come back on the one bus (well there's one very early in the morning as well - it's a school bus) but the two hours I thought would be excessive turned out not to be enough!

 

[Russel]

I travelled the line about two years ago in a gorgeous spring where I could see everything. Fine weather isn't guaranteed, unfortunately! I really enjoyed the trip and found it beneficial to have gone in the museum first so that you understand better what you're seeing. The attached photo shows a train starting the descent at Myrdal and you can see the grade which is steep, even though my zoom lens at 140mm does exaggerate the effect a little.

I would also strongly recommend a visit from Flåm to Undredal as it is a gorgeous village in a stunning setting and has a tiny Stave Church. We had difficulty getting there as one of the two ferry boats to and from Gudvangen couldn't stop there for some reason and it wasn't possible to plan a worthwhile day trip. I ended up taking a taxi there to come back on the one bus (well there's one very early in the morning as well - it's a school bus) but the two hours I thought would be excessive turned out not to be enough!View attachment 205281

What is Myrdal it's self like, it looks rather remote.

 

[BeeBus]

Your perception is not wrong. My recollection is that there is little there apart from the station and a quick check on Google Maps seems to confirm this, just a few houses which I suspect are mainly for railway staff. Quite a decent tea room on the station, though.

 

[Bevan Price]

Take some warm clothing, even if it is hot weather elsewhere in Norway. When I went in the 1980s, there were still snowdrifts at Myrdal in the middle of June. And not much else near the station. Photos not 100% sharp, but gives an idea of the location.