Fixed Penalty

[FCLARK]

I lost my ticket and received a Fixed Penalty notice despite showing the Revenue Inspector my confirmation of booking and copy of my Bank Statement- he said I could have got a refund. I booked on Split My Fare so only had an email booking confirmation as I had to pick up my actual ticket at the station.

I appealed the next day sending copies of the confirmation and bank statement and have received a letter from them on 22.01.24 acknowledging receipt of my appeal on 11.01.24 but stating they are busy and not yet looked at it.

My 21 days to pay at the reduce rate of £50 plus £20.90 for a re-issued ticket expires tomorrow can you confirm that whilst I am waiting to hear this will not go up to £100 plus 20.90 as I am am very concerned that this might happen.

Also do you have any views on whether I may win and if I decide to pay today (as feeling stressed over this) and then won appeal would they refund me.

thanks

 

[John R]

If this is a penalty fare then whilst the appeal is ongoing the clock is stopped, so you need not pay the amount due until you have heard back. (I’m not sure if this is the same with Northern, which have a slightly different scheme though.)

As to whether you will be successful, in theory no, since failure to show a ticket when requested is an offence, regardless of why. For all the inspector knew another person (travelling with you, but sitting apart) on the train had your actual ticket as part of a fare evasion scam, so proof of purchase is insufficient evidence.

 

[WesternLancer]

I lost my ticket and received a Fixed Penalty notice despite showing the Revenue Inspector my confirmation of booking and copy of my Bank Statement- he said I could have got a refund. I booked on Split My Fare so only had an email booking confirmation as I had to pick up my actual ticket at the station.

I appealed the next day sending copies of the confirmation and bank statement and have received a letter from them on 22.01.24 acknowledging receipt of my appeal on 11.01.24 but stating they are busy and not yet looked at it.

My 21 days to pay at the reduce rate of £50 plus £20.90 for a re-issued ticket expires tomorrow can you confirm that whilst I am waiting to hear this will not go up to £100 plus 20.90 as I am am very concerned that this might happen.

Also do you have any views on whether I may win and if I decide to pay today (as feeling stressed over this) and then won appeal would they refund me.

thanks

Assuming you used the official Penalty Fare Appeal Process and have a receipt for your Appeal? But the issue is a 'Fixed Penalty Notice' is not a Penalty Fare - can you be sure what you have been sent? I note you are very clearly calling it a 'Fixed Penalty'.

I don't think there is any option to pay a reduced sum of £50 on a 'Fixed Penalty Notice' - what does the paperwork you were give actually say? - this is very important

Which Train company issued this?

Perhaps you can upload an anoymised copy of whatever you were given / what paperwork you have to help people check for you?

Check your spam for any responses too - (had a case on here a week or so ago where Appeal turned down but the result went to the spam folder and 1st the person knew about it was, IIRC, when they got info about debt being pursued - by which time the cost had gone up notably)

I also believe it is correct to say that if it was a Penalty Fare, and you paid today to obtain the 50% discount, and then subsequently your Appeal was upheld, I believe (but am not 100% sure as I am not an expert) that you would be refunded your Penalty Fare payment.

 

[island]

If you have appealed a Penalty Fare, the appeal process freezes the time to pay at the reduced rate whilst it is pending. This does not apply to any notice by any other name such as Fixed Penalty Notice or Unpaid Fare Notice.

However, regardless of this, I see no grounds on which your appeal might be successful. You must present a ticket when asked. A booking confirmation does not constitute a ticket; if it did, you could have collected the ticket and given it to someone else allowing two to travel for the price of one, or refunded the ticket. You’ll need to pay and chalk it up to bad luck.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

In the circumstances described, does the OP effectively end up paying for the fare twice, as well as the penalty?

 

[John R]

In the circumstances described, does the OP effectively end up paying for the fare twice, as well as the penalty?

Unfortunately yes, but that is no different to losing any other item of value, whereby if you still want whatever that item is you have to pay for a second one.

 

[swt_passenger]

What normally happens to an ‘ordered and paid for’ TOD if you don’t pick it up from a machine or ticket office?

 

[AlterEgo]

What normally happens to an ‘ordered and paid for’ TOD if you don’t pick it up from a machine or ticket office?

It depends on the retailer. Trainline will refund it. I'm not sure about Split My Fare.

 

[WesternLancer]

What normally happens to an ‘ordered and paid for’ TOD if you don’t pick it up from a machine or ticket office?

Edit - cross posted with @AlterEgo

Good question.

Also would there be any refund rights that the OP could pursue for what is essentially an unused ticket as it was not collected and could not be used? (and the proof of its purchase was not accepted by the ticket inspector as having no validity for travel). Such refund right would presumably depend on the type of ticket / retailer.

When the OP has a chance to get back they can clarify some of the questions we need to know in order to give them the best advice on their options.

The OP gives location as Horsham so perhaps they are dealing with Southern or Thameslink in respect of this.

 

[island]

Also would there be any refund rights that the OP could pursue for what is essentially an unused ticket as it was not collected and could not be used? (and the proof of its purchase was not accepted by the ticket inspector as having no validity for travel). Such refund right would presumably depend on the type of ticket / retailer.

Yes, if it was a walkup ticket type then it can be refunded subject to the normal rules and fees.

edit: this assumed the OP hadn't collected the ticket and I can see they actually did and lost it.

 

[spag23]

the OP could pursue for what is essentially an unused ticket as it was not collected and could not be used

But this OP had collected the ticket. But then lost it.

 

[WesternLancer]

But this OP had collected the ticket. But then lost it.

Thanks for the correction - good point!