FirstGroup to expand Greyhound to London / Glasgow

[jamesontheroad]

Following the relatively soft launch of the Greyhound name on London - south coast bus routes last year, First Group are going to launch a daily Greyhound roundtrip between Glasgow and London on 10 January.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-11983816


I presume these will replace the existing First Bus nighttime service that goes via Hamilton? I'd never heard of this one until I saw it advertised inside a First bus in Glasgow; IIRC it was previously run by a coach operator that was bought by First.

A shame that it's not going to bring much that's new or different to the market. I think I'd only seriously start considering the bus for such a long journey if a bus operator offered 2+1 seating.

Edit: looks like it will replace / compliment that night bus... Greyhound.com now offers Glasgow and Hamilton as departure points. Fares start at £1; same times as the current service.

 

[gordonthemoron]

having used both NatExpress & Eurolines overnight services, I'd say you'd have to be seriously short of cash to consider them

 

[kylemore]

Following the relatively soft launch of the Greyhound name on London - south coast bus routes last year, First Group are going to launch a daily Greyhound roundtrip between Glasgow and London on 10 January.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-11983816


I presume these will replace the existing First Bus nighttime service that goes via Hamilton? I'd never heard of this one until I saw it advertised inside a First bus in Glasgow; IIRC it was previously run by a coach operator that was bought by First.

A shame that it's not going to bring much that's new or different to the market. I think I'd only seriously start considering the bus for such a long journey if a bus operator offered 2+1 seating.

Edit: looks like it will replace / compliment that night bus... Greyhound.com now offers Glasgow and Hamilton as departure points. Fares start at £1; same times as the current service.

Having done the overnight journey by coach I'd have to agree it's the last resort, mind you your the idea of 2+1 with hi-spec coach might be an alternative for seated passengers on the increasingly unreliable Caledonian sleeper.

 

[rail-britain]

Silver Choice had been running express coaches between Glasgow / Edinburgh and London for many years
However, the competition from megabus was too much
Equally, Stagecoach was prevented from buying this part of this company

See :
https://www.silverchoicetravel.co.uk/tickets.htm

By having First Group operate this retains the competition element

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . I think I'd only seriously start considering the bus for such a long journey if a bus operator offered 2+1 seating.

That's a very good point!.
Its understandable why the long distance coach operators have found them selves at the bottom end of the market, but that sort of improvement and a few others could reverse that trend.

having used both NatExpress & Eurolines overnight services, I'd say you'd have to be seriously short of cash to consider them

Very true, but sadly there are many people in that position, including the employed and some from, er, wealthy backgrounds, so the potential market is definitely there.
And where the rail and air operators fail to provide a low-cost or late night service then there will be a market for the coach operators.

A little comfort on a coach can be quite inexpensive to provide, and at those prices, punctuality is probably not going to be a critical factor for the passenger anyway.

 

[Greenback]

An overnight service which allows me to get to or leave from somewhere at a more convenient time is the only reason I would consider a coach now. Even then, I would investigate every other option I could think of.

2+1 seating, tables, or other innovations might help, but that would completely change the economics of coach operation.

 

[rail-britain]

2+1 seating, tables, or other innovations might help, but that would completely change the economics of coach operation

Doesn't change the economics on some routes
If there is already competition then the services may already be poorly loaded
Therefore swapping to a low density seating profile with higher prices can attract some customers
Add to that premium meals and the service can pay for itself once established

 

[anthony263]

First have recently started the Greyhound operation in south wales between Swansea & Cardiff to replace the shuttle 100 coach service.

Services are well used particulary off - peak by OAPs who can get a discount with their bus passes but this had led to some problems with passengers being left behind so some services are now duplicated. No evening journeys sadly although passengers coming back from cardiff after 18:30 can use their greyhound tickets on the FGW rail services

 

[Greenback]

Doesn't change the economics on some routes
If there is already competition then the services may already be poorly loaded
Therefore swapping to a low density seating profile with higher prices can attract some customers
Add to that premium meals and the service can pay for itself once established

It does change the economics in terms of coaches currently being seen, and often run, as the cheap option.

As you say, adding premium meals may help, but then isn;t that exactly what I was saying? You would have to make the coach much more of a premium product than it is now. This would mean trying to attract a different type of customer.

There may be a market for premium leather seats, grouped around tables, with the ability to serve light meals. Some tour operators already have such vehicles, but no one has yet offered this type of service on scheduled routes.

My guess is that business analysis has forecast that such services simply would not be successful, except on a few overnight services where rail does not provide much competition (South Wales to Heathrow and Gatwick is one such route!)

 

[rail-britain]

There may be a market for premium leather seats, grouped around tables, with the ability to serve light meals. Some tour operators already have such vehicles, but no one has yet offered this type of service on scheduled routes

Yes they are, Stagecoach launched a premium service earlier this year, with Citylink Gold http://www.citylinkgold.co.uk/
The base costs are almost identical
However, the load capacity is less, so the fare needs to be higher
A range of snacks and meals is then added

 

[Flying Snail]

Yes they are, Stagecoach launched a premium service earlier this year, with Citylink Gold http://www.citylinkgold.co.uk/
The base costs are almost identical
However, the load capacity is less, so the fare needs to be higher
A range of snacks and meals is then added

The load factor for these is not reduced significantly, they are 54 seater coaches in 2+2 format with only slightly more legroom than a standard spec coach, nothing like the 2+1 layouts that are common on long distance coaches in parts of Asia that really are a different class which would have at most half the seats of a regular coach.

 

[Greenback]

Yes, the 2 +1 with tables that I envisaged and which would really be innovative would lead to far fewer seats than is currently the norm.

 

[Deerfold]

Yes they are, Stagecoach launched a premium service earlier this year, with Citylink Gold http://www.citylinkgold.co.uk/
The base costs are almost identical
However, the load capacity is less, so the fare needs to be higher
A range of snacks and meals is then added

Bizarrely I just looked up the prices on that website for tomorrow and a couple of dates in late Jan for Glasgow - Aberdeen and the 1740 Citylink Gold is in each case the cheapest of the 8 afternoon services, most of which are megabus.

 

[tbtc]

A little comfort on a coach can be quite inexpensive to provide

That's it.

Stagecoach provide Wifi on a number of their coach services, leather seats too on new coaches, that kind of thing

People will get sniffy about coaches, but if its a guaranteed seat with bigger windows than a Pendolino then ... :roll:

 

[jamesontheroad]

Bizarrely I just looked up the prices on that website for tomorrow and a couple of dates in late Jan for Glasgow - Aberdeen and the 1740 Citylink Gold is in each case the cheapest of the 8 afternoon services, most of which are megabus.

This is the same old race for the bottom that transport operators delight in. I've read (here) that the new Greyhound service will charge from £1 up to no more than £20 per journey between London and Glasgow. The current Nightflyer charges £25 / £35 return. Someone must be doing the maths to suggest that it's better to fill the bus with any passengers rather than concentrate on better fares. But since that's also what National Express and Megabus do, I can't see how they can get much differentiation between the services.

If I had to take bus from Glasgow to London (and you would have to hold a gun to my head) I'd be prepared to pay upwards of £25, maybe even up to £30 or £40, for the premium of a 2+1 coach with a smidgeon more legroom. I also reckon it would be easier to distinguish that kind of service, and therefore be easier to sell a higher proportion of more expensive seats on a lower capacity bus, rather than attempt the simplistic Ryanair yield management option.

Stagecoach provide Wifi on a number of their coach services, leather seats too on new coaches, that kind of thing

Urgh. Leather seats are a total con. As soon I get comfortable and doze off I find myself slipping off them. Worst example of daft leather seats are on the (soon to be discontinued) Arriva Glasgow Flyer service. God knows what they'll do with them when the fleet comes off that duty.

 

[tbtc]

Urgh. Leather seats are a total con. As soon I get comfortable and doze off I find myself slipping off them. Worst example of daft leather seats are on the (soon to be discontinued) Arriva Glasgow Flyer service. God knows what they'll do with them when the fleet comes off that duty.

Whilst train enthusiasts talk of Pacers having "bus" seating, the actual seats on buses has improved considerably over the last few years. 2 + 1 seating is becoming common on new TrentBarton vehicles, leather seats are common on new buses up and down the country, Stagecoach are pushing their free WiFi...

...some TOCs need to play "catch up"!

 

[ainsworth74]

Stagecoach are pushing their free WiFi...

...some TOCs need to play "catch up"!

Can you imagine a Pacer having free wi-fi? That is something I would like to see

 

[MCR247]

. 2 + 1 seating is becoming common on new TrentBarton vehicles, leather seats are common on new buses up and down the country, Stagecoach are pushing their free WiFi...

...some TOCs need to play "catch up"!

I've never seen a bus with 2+1 seating

 

[Greenback]

There are quite a few single deck buses in Swansea with a double seat one side and asingle on the other. I think it wasm meant to increase standing room, and luggage space.

 

[Deerfold]

Urgh. Leather seats are a total con. As soon I get comfortable and doze off I find myself slipping off them. Worst example of daft leather seats are on the (soon to be discontinued) Arriva Glasgow Flyer service. God knows what they'll do with them when the fleet comes off that duty.

I'm glad it's not just me that doesn't see the appeal - high quality, comfortable seating - yes please! Leather? Why?

 

[tbtc]

Can you imagine a Pacer having free wi-fi? That is something I would like to see

One day, one day...If they can install it in buses then why not?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've never seen a bus with 2+1 seating

There are a few being introduced - probably only over the last couple of years - interesting to contrast with trains and their 3 + 2 seating.

I'd argue that bus travel has changed a lot more than train travel since privatisation

 

[rail-britain]

Can you imagine a Pacer having free wi-fi?

I think the hint was more pointed at Cross Country

ScotRail were supposed to be introducing WiFi by the end of this year (albeit between Glasgow QS and Edinburgh only)

 

[ainsworth74]

I think the hint was more pointed at Cross Country

I'm sure it was Just the thought of Pacer with wifi had me tickled. But seriously I wish DfT would actually start taking some serious action against XC still not having installed wifi on their trains.

 

[Flying Snail]

There are a few being introduced - probably only over the last couple of years - interesting to contrast with trains and their 3 + 2 seating.

There is a world of difference between 2+1 on buses to that on coaches.
On buses it is used to increase standing/wheelchair/buggy capacity for short routes where the rail equivalent should be pacers and HD suburban stock.

2+1 on coaches (as is common in the Asia-Pacific region) is a premium product to give extra luxury for long distance express routes where the space and comfort levels are as good if not better than 1st class on the best UK rail operators. As far as I know there are no coaches fitted to anything close to that standard on service work in the UK.

Examples of some Malaysian coach interiors:
http://dolphinairlines.fotopic.net/p28421231.html
http://dolphinairlines.fotopic.net/p28421241.html

 

[jamesontheroad]

Meanwhile in Northern Ireland, a number of relatively young Wright bodied Volvos for Ulsterbus have 2+3 seating (mainly for school runs).

 

[Via Bank]

Urgh. Leather seats are a total con. As soon I get comfortable and doze off I find myself slipping off them. Worst example of daft leather seats are on the (soon to be discontinued) Arriva Glasgow Flyer service. God knows what they'll do with them when the fleet comes off that duty.

I know this is late and slightly OT, but I'd postulate that the Stagecoach Goldline local services (blue and diarrhoea-coloured 2+2 leather) are the worst example of this. Aside from being slippery, they're so tall the only way you can tell where you are is by looking at what's just gone past, and in the summer there's invariably a sweaty afterimage of the previous occupant.

 

[monkey]

Yes they are, Stagecoach launched a premium service earlier this year, with Citylink Gold http://www.citylinkgold.co.uk/
The base costs are almost identical
However, the load capacity is less, so the fare needs to be higher
A range of snacks and meals is then added

...yeah I think coach model needs refresh and some innovation. megabus sort of rejuvenated the sector, but it has also downgraded what a coach should be.

citylink gold seems like a right direction to go, although its not very well advertised as I ain't heard of it till now. I think what somoene else said about uk coaches being poorly specced is true. my mums originally from bangladesh, and there coaches have are eclipsing train use (particularly for the emerging middle class) mainly cos the trains have suffered from years of underinvestment, partly cos its a poor nation but also cos of widespread corruption too. private coach companies have been shrewd however and made the product a more premium product, by using imported Hino coaches from japan with premium specification layout and furnishing, including basic lunch pack and toiletry pack for longer journeys and attendants to attend to peoples needs in the price. an innovative touch has been to link up with the new modern service stations that have opened up in the emerging highways of the nation and to offer short rest stop with discounted meals at the service stations catering facilities - not sure this would work here, but its nice touch and innovative use of a new facility...

 

[Flamingo]

Well, that gives me an alternative to suggest the next time I've somebody haranguing me about how expensive the trains are, and how I've just lost the railways another customer by having the audacity to make them buy a ticket!

Seriously, the prices do sound like something that would attract a lot of people onto them, given the number of posters that seem to only want to do a journey if they can do it cheaply.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

The Wright Schoolruns in Northern Ireland are only for Schoolbus use and have been built on a Coach chassis i saw some myself when i was over there and looked much nicer than the first tripe schoolbuses employed over here.

Think Greater Manchester is getting some Tempos for schoolbus work

 

[route101]

The Wright Schoolruns in Northern Ireland are only for Schoolbus use and have been built on a Coach chassis i saw some myself when i was over there and looked much nicer than the first tripe schoolbuses employed over here.

Think Greater Manchester is getting some Tempos for schoolbus work

In Dec 2008 i managed to get one of the Translink Wrights on the Stena Port service.