First will not take over West Coast from December

[Bayum]

Though his argument has changed i'm sure it's still along the lines of the franchise 'should' (In Crow's eyes) have gone to DOR so that neither First nor Virgin could argue over the franchise in the upcoming months.

There will be some element of 'taxpayer money' in there as well I assume.

 

[All Line Rover]

Joe Public Opinion:
I really don't see the point of this. If Virgin win the new franchise (which going by recent events wouldn't be surprising), the entire fleet, staff and management team will be handed over to DOR, with the cost of re-branding stations, repainting the fleet and issuing new uniforms and marketing material (which will have to happen given that Virgin won't want their name attached to a franchise they no longer run), only to to hand it all back a few months later. What on earth is the point in that!?

Reasoned Opinion:
It might be nonsensical, but the cost involved is likely to outweigh the cost of any legal challenge brought by First.

 

[jon0844]

How long can DOR run EC (and eventually WC) before having to put it out to tender again?

What if the Government opted to wait even longer before allowing a new bidding process to start?

 

[Rich McLean]

How long can DOR run EC (and eventually WC) before having to put it out to tender again?

What if the Government opted to wait even longer before allowing a new bidding process to start?

I have a feeling they will concentrate on the other franchises to avoid too much of a domino effect, and come back to ICWC when they have more time to play with

 

[WillPS]

The problem with this is that Virgin can essentially name their price for the 4-6 month contract; the government have effectively said they have no choice.

 

[Zoe]

How long can DOR run EC (and eventually WC) before having to put it out to tender again?

What if the Government opted to wait even longer before allowing a new bidding process to start?

There is an incentive for the government to relet the franchises by May 2015 at the latest though just in case Labour get any ideas about changing the system.

 

[GNER 91128]

Virgin have been asked to run the WCML for the next 9 to 13 months.

 

[Daz28]

Just announced on BBC, Virgin to continue for nine months, then a competitive tender for a two year franchise, then a long term franchise later.

 

[Manchester77]

North west tonight have just tweeted 'virgin to run west coast for 9 - 13 months'

 

[Masbroughlad]

Just announced on BBC, Virgin to continue for nine months, then a competitive tender for a two year franchise, then a long term franchise later.

So 3 years before we even get a long franchise. Any progress and development 5 years away.

Sorry Shrewsbury, Blackpool etc you'll have to wait a bit longer......

And Alliance Rail may as well go into hibernation!!!!

 

[John @ home]

15 October 2012 Last updated at 07:39

Virgin Trains will be asked to continue to run services on the West Coast Mainline for at least another nine months after the latest decision on the route franchise was scrapped.

The Department for Transport says it will enter into negotiations with Virgin for the "temporary" contract.

A competition will then be run for a new franchise agreement.

The decision to give FirstGroup the route in December was withdrawn over "technical flaws" in the bid process.

In an announcement to the London Stock Exchange, the Department of Transport said it hoped Virgin would remain as the West Coast Mainline operator for between 9 and 13 months while a competition was run for an interim franchise agreement.

This interim agreement will then run until a new long term franchise agreement is in place.

"The government believes that this is the best way to ensure services are maintained and that there is no impact on passengers," it added.

The competition to run the line was cancelled on 3 October and led to the suspension of other franchise programmes including bids for Essex Thameside, Great Western and Thameslink.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19944782

 

[Ah1479]

So the government have just granted an extension to Virgin and not even made it not for profit. This is worse than the u-turn. So now any group who loses their franchise now defiantly have an incentive to launch legal challenges. I can see Virgin now just milking the franchise dry for as much profit as they can.

 

[John55]

So the government have just granted an extension to Virgin and not even made it not for profit. This is worse than the u-turn. So now any group who loses their franchise now defiantly have an incentive to launch legal challenges. I can see Virgin now just milking the franchise dry for as much profit as they can.

Please read the press release. It says "The Department for Transport will negotiate with Virgin Rail Group for them to continue providing rail services on the West Coast Main Line for a temporary period.".

No details of financial arrangements or indeed if Virgin will agree.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well, this thread has just been given a new topic of motivation, as the previous internal forum inquests on the original thread discussion must have looked at all possible matters to the "nth" degree.

 

[dk1]

Well done Virgin Trains. Ok, it's going to cost but hey-ho thats one of those things in situations like this. Im just hoping they also gets the short franchise followed by the long term one. That is unless this Government screws up again of course!!

Just my opinion.

 

[HH]

Here's the actual Press Release: http://www.dft.gov.uk/news/press-releases/press-dft-20121015a

The Department for Transport will negotiate with Virgin Rail Group for them to continue providing rail services on the West Coast Main Line for a temporary period.

The current franchise is due to expire on 9 December after which it is the government’s intention that Virgin remain as operator for a short period – expected to be between 9 and 13 months – while a competition is run for an interim franchise agreement. This interim agreement, which would be open to any bidders, will then run until the new long term West Coast franchise is ready to commence.

The government believes that this is the best way to ensure services are maintained and that there is no impact on passengers.

Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin said:


“The cancellation of the InterCity West Coast franchise is deeply regrettable and I apologise to the bidders involved and the taxpayer who have a right to expect better.

“My priority now is to fix the problem and the first step is to take urgent action to ensure that on the 9 December services continue to run to the same standard and passengers are not affected.

“I believe Virgin remaining as operator for a short period of time is the best way to do this and my officials and I will be working flat out to make this happen.”

On 3 October the previous competition to run trains on this line was cancelled following the discovery of significant technical flaws in the way the franchise process was conducted.

The department also paused the on-going franchise programme including live competitions on Essex Thameside, Great Western and Thameslink and set up two independent reviews into what went wrong with the West Coast competition and the wider DfT rail franchise programme.

I don't see that the VT "extension" can be shorter than 12 months, despite what it says. They have to do a whole new process.

The obvious break point for a short, interim Franchise is the start of HS2 works (2018?), but it's DfT - anything can happen.

 

[Zoe]

This interim agreement will then run until a new long term franchise agreement is in place.

Will there actually be a separate competition for the long term frachise though or will the DfT negotiate the long term franchise with the winner of the competition for the interim agreement?

 

[The Planner]

Sounds like they couldnt get the people in to run it DOR and this was the failsafe option.

 

[dk1]

Will there actually be a separate competition for the long term frachise though or will the DfT negociate the long term franchise with the winner of the competition for the interim agreement?

I would have thought along the lines of Greater Anglia but the way things are going who knows :roll:

 

[Holly]

... I don't see that the VT "extension" can be shorter than 12 months, despite what it says. They have to do a whole new process. ...

A whole new process should not take too long, we can reasonably expect that Virgin will be the sole bidder. The others having learned that effort spent bidding is just a useless distraction and lost opportunity to do something else productive.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I don't understand the logic for an "interim" franchise after 9-13 months.
Suggests the DfT have bigger changes in mind than just re-bidding the current routes.

Nothing said about the other paused franchises or the impact on later ones.
It will be interesting to see where East Coast fits in to the new franchise timetable.
Maybe the SoS will say more in the Commons later.
I guess this particular announcement was for the Stock Exchange.

 

[TheJRB]

I believe Virgin remaining as operator for a short period of time is the best way to do this and my officials and I will be working flat out to make this happen.

I said this before and I still believe it now (and I honestly hold no bias against Virgin):

Surely the only fair option would be DOR, no?

Keeping it with Virgin has sent a message that I really don't think should be sent.

 

[AndyLandy]

Keeping it with Virgin has sent a message that I really don't think should be sent.

It's a lose-lose situation for the DfT. Giving Virgin a short extension to keep the service ticking over, followed by a short 'caretaker' franchise as soon as possible is about the best they could have managed. They can't get DOR in on time, so what else is there to do?

 

[Zoe]

They can't get DOR in on time, so what else is there to do?

That fact that DOR couldn't take over in time does raise the question of how the trains would still run if a TOC suddently walked away without warning.

 

[AndyLandy]

That fact that DOR couldn't take over in time does raise the question of how the trains would still run if a TOC suddently walked away without warning.

That's a genuine and valid concern. I'm not sure what would happen in that instance.

 

[HH]

That fact that DOR couldn't take over in time does raise the question of how the trains would still run if a TOC suddently walked away without warning.

It could be managed, it's just that it's not a good idea to rush it and, in particular, DOR would not be in a good position with regard to the transfer of, or creation of new, contracts.

Although they've not said, I would reckon that Virgin's unhelpful attitude in handovers has probably been factored in. I hear that First were having a torrid time before the DfT volte-face.

 

[Daz28]

I don't understand the logic for an "interim" franchise after 9-13 months.
Suggests the DfT have bigger changes in mind than just re-bidding the current routes.

The majority of the problems that we know about the recent West Coast competition stemmed from the fact that it was a long term franchise and the relevant financial models were not correct when factoring in long term risk/reward.

An interim franchise allows a short term contract to be let competitively without waiting for the outcome and resultant actions of the process reviews.

It buys 24-30 months for the DfT to get its process right for awarding long term rail franchises.

 

[PR1Berske]

So now do we start a new thread :roll:

 

[HH]

They can't get DOR in on time, so what else is there to do?

It's probably more to do with trying to avoid any chance of further "egg on face", than that they actually can't do it.

 

[Zoe]

Also could the interim franchise just be a way of de facto giving Virign an extension? Can anyone really see it going to another party or even anyone else bidding?