First West Coast service pattern

[northwichcat]

If you forget about linking Manchester directly to Bournemouth/ Paignton then you could run Birmingham - Manchester trains as extensions of London - Birmingham - Wolverhampton services, thus providing a much bigger capacity between the West Midlands and Greater Manchester using electric stock without needing more paths through Wolverhampton.

So how would that give Stone and some of the stations north of Stoke a direct service to Birmingham, which is one of the objectives of an extension of a Manchester-Stoke stopper to Birmingham?

You were suggesting mini-Pendolinos on Manchester-Birmingham before.

 

[Jeni]

So how would that give Stone and some of the stations north of Stoke a direct service to Birmingham, which is one of the objectives of an extension of a Manchester-Stoke stopper to Birmingham?

Arguably, particularly north of Stoke, how much demand is there for a direct service to Birmingham? I wouldn't have thought it'd be that high, and I don't think that changing trains at Stoke is particularly hard to do!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Arguably, particularly north of Stoke, how much demand is there for a direct service to Birmingham? I wouldn't have thought it'd be that high, and I don't think that changing trains at Stoke is particularly hard to do!

The demand spends most of its time in the jams on the M6 every day (both ways).

 

[Jeni]

The demand spends most of its time in the jams on the M6 every day (both ways).

Valid point!

 

[tbtc]

So how would that give Stone and some of the stations north of Stoke a direct service to Birmingham, which is one of the objectives of an extension of a Manchester-Stoke stopper to Birmingham?

As Jeni says, it's never going to be huge market (Kidsgrove/ Congleton to Stoke), even if there are spare paths at the Birmingham end to allow such a service.

 

[Starmill]

The seats are a matter of taste, personally I like the ones used on Desiros. Further, if it is significantly cheaper to use one service compared to another (like LM / VT between Crewe and Euston), you'll find that no matter where it stops at people will use it because it is either all they can afford or they have things they would rather spend their money saved on, and time isn't an issue. (Dare I say I prefer 350s to 390s?!)

Dare you? Dare I do. Those seats notwithstanding, I prefer 350s. I like Desiros, the noises, the layout - the daylight. And they don't have that ever present background smell of sewage. And I didn't realise LM-only tickets were available on the day as I can normally only afford to get the very cheapest batch of advance tickets - which (correct me if I'm wrong) don't seem to be any cheaper.

 

[HH]

People are obviously labouring under some false premises.

Firstly, the current VT timetable has some slack built into it, as does their contracts with Alstom & Bombardier. First might have put in extra services without needing any additional Rolling Stock. These would cost, but if they believe that there's revenue...

Secondly, the additional RS has been identified for the Glasgow-Brum route. This in turn frees up Voyagers for some of the other routes specified. They presumably have committed to the RS, and the trains have to do something or just be a dead weight...

Thirdly, the Franchise Agreement will contain things called COPAs (Committed Obligation Penalty Agreements). What goes here is what First have committed to. Exactly what these say is not known, but for things to be announced they must be in here. OTOH First would be foolish to commit to things in perpetuity. Circumstances change, e.g. some bearded bloke running new air services. First have good lawyers; they will only be committed to introducing, not keeping.