First trains & northern wrong ticket sales

[7777]

Hi, there are two events that have occurred today which I would love feedback on
Firstly: I got a lift to Warrington central station, where I went to the ticket office to buy a return ticket from sankey to manchester oxford road (as sankey was the station I am returning to. I purchased my ticket with the discount that comes with my rail card, and when doing so, I specifically told the guy behind the till that I was returning between 4 and 6 which is obviously peak time- to which he replied 'so you're travelling back between 4-6. He then printed the tickets and I paid. When I then looked at the tickets I'd purchased, it became clear that he gave me OFF PEAK tickets after he clearly knew I requested an anytime return. Had I actually tried to use or boarded a train to sankey with this ticket between 4-6 I would presumably be fined and prosecuted for intention to defraud. I didn't even want to consider using this ticket, So now I have had to pay 8£ for a single ticket to sankey to return home in addition to the £6.25 I paid for a return. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that they are purposely attempting to get customers fined. -disgraced.

Secondly-whilst queuing at oxford road station, a revenue protection lady working for northern rail pulled me from the queue and asked me to buy a ticket from her, so that the queue could die down. My card didn't work at her machine so I headed back round to the ticket office-then she stopped me and encouraged me to 'just buy a ticket on the train'-(even though the conductor doesn't usually make his way through the train on the 16:44 to liverpool lime street. I am genuinely amazed that this occurred- a revenue protection worker from northern rail ENCOURAGING me to board a train with now valid ticket. I replied to her saying 'no chance' and went to the ticket office and bought my ticket.

 

[bb21]

The clerk was correct. The £6.25 fare (Off-Peak Day Return) has no evening restriction, so you were sold the correct ticket. There was no need to buy the additional ticket.

Even if your ticket was not valid due to a time restriction, you would not have been fined and prosecuted. Your ticket would have been excessed to the correct fare, with you charged the difference between the two fares. There is no need to buy a new ticket unless it's cheaper than the excess.

 

[7777]

The train line says other wise:
Any off peak train: £6.25
Anytime day return: £6.95

 

[bb21]

I have given you the definitive answer.

There is no such thing as an "off-peak train". Time restrictions are attached to each fare, not to trains. A train that is restricted for one off-peak fare may be unrestricted for another off-peak fare.

For the £6.25 fare, any train after 0930 is unrestricted.

In comparison, an Off-Peak Day Return from Warrington (£5.50) is not valid for return at that time of the day, due to a restriction being attached to the fare between 1600 and 1830. Anyone wishing to return at that time of the day would be required to purchase the Anytime Day Return for £6.15, or if the Off-Peak Day Return is already held, have the ticket excessed for 65p.

 

[221129]

So really you're complaining about nothing?

 

[7777]

Evidently yes, slightly confusing though with the two different prices that you get charged.
One week they charge you 6.95, the next £6.25.
But hey-ho, you know better than me

 

[bb21]

You shouldn't have to pay £6.95 unless you want to travel before 0930.

Do you have a 16-25 Railcard, or is it something else?

 

[7777]

You shouldn't have to pay £6.95 unless you want to travel before 0930.

Do you have a 16-25 Railcard, or is it something else?

Yes 16-25
I have been charged £6.95 for this journey previously, on multiple occasions.-and when buying, the person at the office has asked me specifically what time I'm returning, and when I've said between 4-6, this is where he's upped it to 6.95.

 

[bb21]

Hmm, that means you were overcharged if you previously travelled after 0930.

I'm not sure whether it would be worth complaining for the sake of a few 70p's, however if this happens next time, politely request that they check the restriction code for the Sankey fare. This should not be difficult.

 

[7777]

Hmm, that means you were overcharged if you previously travelled after 0930.

I'm not sure whether it would be worth complaining for the sake of a few 70p's, however if this happens next time, politely request that they check the restriction code for the Sankey fare. This should not be difficult.

Thanks a lot for your helpful and respectful response BB21

 

[bb21]

Basically on a weekday, this is what you should be paying,

Before 0930, £10.50 (undiscounted Anytime Day Return)
Between 0930 and 1000, £9.50 (undiscounted Off-Peak Day Return)
After 1000, £6.25 (discounted Off-Peak Day Return)

In July and August when no minimum fare applies on your Railcard,

Before 0930, £6.95 (discounted Anytime Day Return)
After 0930, £6.25 (discounted Off-Peak Day Return)

At weekends, you pay £6.25.

There is no evening restriction on any fare from Sankey to Manchester.

 

[7777]

Thanks a lot I appreciate your help and will remember it for the future
Just to add, I wasn't so stupid to post on here as ollieb suggests.
I have been travelling this route on a Friday since starting uni in september(14 journeys)
And have been charged the £6.80(which went upto 6.95), meaning that's £9.80 I shouldn't have been charged. I know this may not seem like a lot to some-but it is to a student!
If a passenger had accidentally bought the wrong ticket, just like the ticket office has given the wrong ticket, they would be fined or prosecuted.

 

[bb21]

I don't think he is trying to insinuate that you are stupid. Don't take it the wrong way. What he is trying to say is that you can't pin the blame on ticket office staff, at least on this occasion, as they are actually correct.

Railway ticketing is incredibly confusing to those who are not familiar with it, so your questions are quite common. You won't be the only one asking these questions. It doesn't mean you are stupid.

There is no reason why you should be stopped from complaining to TPE, especially if you still have some of those tickets to back up your claims (which will have the time printed on them). There would also be the added benefit that you may get your single ticket, which you bought unnecessarily, refunded, as I think it is reasonable to argue that had their ticket office staff not caused you all this confusion by selling your different tickets, you would not have been under the wrong impression that you needed to buy a new ticket. It is a long shot, and there is no guarantee that you will get your money back, but you never know, you just may. It all depends on whether you think the refund would be worth you spending time complaining.

 

[185143]

There is at least one member of ticket office staff at Warrington notorious, in my experience, for issuing off peak tickets during evening peak!

Also, not all staff working in the area have been told about this.(!) I was on an EMT that stopped at Irlam a while ago, someone had been on a late connection and asked for a single to Irlam onboard. Off peak ticket was sold despite the journey being around 17:30

OP, I get that train every day, which one of us are you?

 

[island]

You were sold the correct ticket on this occasion. Don't believe anything thetrainline says.

Incidentally, if a ticket is used at a time that it is not valid due to a time restriction, the usual course of action is an excess fare, not "prosecution for fraud".