First to close Southampton depot

[DaveHarries]

I can see the sense in a 15-min frequency along Thornhill Park Road with two per hour going on to Hedge End and the other two to Harefield. If the number 13 was retained for Harefield you'd then have 3 and 13, which are related numbers, which might be easy to memorise for users. Not sure it would be a good idea to divert all 3s via Harefield though as it would significantly slow down the journey time, I would guess 10 mins to do the Harefield loop.

Maybe they could tweak the existing routes in this area to ensure no area has a significantly slowed journey.

(Incidentally one thing they could do is run the U6 through to the City via Shirley as additional 17 journeys, albeit Unilink-branded. This would restore through links to Shirley from the University/Portswood area).


I guess you mean the 17, not the 7? As others have suggested, probably the 17 needs to be upped to 8 buses per hour over the General Hospital-City-Weston section. (Through-working with the U6 could be a nice way to achieve this).

It would have to be maintained - my bets are this will become the 15. (See above)

I think they'd need to have two Townhill Park routes, perhaps one anticlockwise and one clockwise round the loop, i.e. the 16 and the traditional route via Portswood (my bets for that one is that it will become the 14, restoring an old route number used in the 90s). There have always, back to at least 1989, been at least two Townhill Park routes in any case, one via Portswood (the 3A/14, then the 3, then the 7) and one via Bitterne (the 8, then latterly the Bluestar 16).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Dec 2022 ==


So do you mean Cobden Ave-Witts Hill-Woodmill Lane-Forest Hills Drive-Meggeson Avenue-Townhill Way-West End-Hedge End?

That would mean a significant degradation of service, with a very slow journey to Hedge End and the Oaktree Road area completely unserved.

As I said above, they really need two services to Townhill Park (the 16 and a Portswood service) and a West End/Hedge End.


My guess is that they would need quite a few others, albeit not quite as many as First currently use, as a common-fleet could allow inter-working. The timetable is still reduced compared to pre-Covid, e.g. the 1 and 2 are every 20 mins vice every 15, and the 9 is half-hourly vice every 20 mins.

In reply to the above:

- Good point about the 4ph along Thornhill Park Road. I don't think First ever tried to provide any sort of route along there. The timings of a 3 and 13 on that basis might require, and enable, the two routes to interwork at the City Centre. Thinking of the suggestion about the U6 though perhaps Bluestar could reroute the current 3 to exclude the southern part of Hedge End and that could then be served by that rerouted U6 which could be renumbered as a Service 19 and run Aldermoor - Shirley - Central Station - City Centre - Bitterne - Thornhill Park Road - Hedge End (Bursledon Road - Heath House Lane - Kings Copse Avenue - Tripps End) with the Whitebeam Road roundabout being used for turning of buses.

- An alternative to the reroute of the U6 via. Shirley might also be to provide a route from Aldermoor to Hedge End which could operate Aldermoor - General Hospital - Winchester Road - Hill Lane (whole length) - Central Station and then to Hedge End as per my thought above. Two buses per hour might work quite well on that from start of service through to the end of service.

- When referring to the BS 7 I did indeed mean the 17.

- Regarding the Townhill Park & Midanbury another thought. At present the FS 7 runs every 15 minutes on that whole circuit. One idea could be to up the frequency (I am sure it was every 10 minutes during the day at one point?) and revise things. Dispense with the circular setup currently used and have two routes: Service 15 (City Centre - South Hanpshire Hospital - Portswood - Manor Farm Road - Meggeson Ave - Chartwell Green - West End - Hedge End Station) and Service 16 (City Centre - South Hanpshire Hospital - Portswood - Manor Farm Road - Woodmill Lane - Mousehole Lane - Bitterne Village) but the downside with that is the loss of the link to the shops on Witts Hill so another idea would be to have two routes but one doing the present 16 circular and another (Service 15) doing the anti-clockwise version of the same route, perhaps running every 30 minutes in each direction. On the other hand it is always quite annoying to be on the wrong side of the road where you get buses like that.

Dave

 

[nw1]

In reply to the above:

- Good point about the 4ph along Thornhill Park Road. I don't think First ever tried to provide any sort of route along there. The timings of a 3 and 13 on that basis might require, and enable, the two routes to interwork at the City Centre. Thinking of the suggestion about the U6 though perhaps Bluestar could reroute the current 3 to exclude the southern part of Hedge End and that could then be served by that rerouted U6 which could be renumbered as a Service 19 and run Aldermoor - Shirley - Central Station - City Centre - Bitterne - Thornhill Park Road - Hedge End (Bursledon Road - Heath House Lane - Kings Copse Avenue - Tripps End) with the Whitebeam Road roundabout being used for turning of buses.

- An alternative to the reroute of the U6 via. Shirley might also be to provide a route from Aldermoor to Hedge End which could operate Aldermoor - General Hospital - Winchester Road - Hill Lane (whole length) - Central Station and then to Hedge End as per my thought above. Two buses per hour might work quite well on that from start of service through to the end of service.

The loss of a regular Hill Lane service is very noticeable compared to the 90s and most of the 00s, when the service was at least half-hourly and at times 20-minutely. Plus the St James' Road area had a similar frequency, so the whole of that area between Shirley and the Common has seen a very, very large degradation of service compared to the 90s and early 00s. I think traditionally it was always the 5 via St James' Road, and the 5A, formerly the 25, via Hill Lane. I do remember this pattern still being present in 2006 so not so very long ago.

- When referring to the BS 7 I did indeed mean the 17.

- Regarding the Townhill Park & Midanbury another thought. At present the FS 7 runs every 15 minutes on that whole circuit. One idea could be to up the frequency (I am sure it was every 10 minutes during the day at one point?) and revise things. Dispense with the circular setup currently used and have two routes: Service 15 (City Centre - South Hanpshire Hospital - Portswood - Manor Farm Road - Meggeson Ave - Chartwell Green - West End - Hedge End Station) and Service 16 (City Centre - South Hanpshire Hospital - Portswood - Manor Farm Road - Woodmill Lane - Mousehole Lane - Bitterne Village) but the downside with that is the loss of the link to the shops on Witts Hill so another idea would be to have two routes but one doing the present 16 circular and another (Service 15) doing the anti-clockwise version of the same route, perhaps running every 30 minutes in each direction. On the other hand it is always quite annoying to be on the wrong side of the road where you get buses like that.

Dave

The Townhill area is a bit of a conundrum as you have to link the area to both Portswood and Bitterne, and also ensure that both the estate and Midanbury are served. Thus having just one route even with clockwise and anticlockwise variants, while a nice idea, is a bit tricky. I guess you could run a "grand circle" on a 10-min basis clockwise and anticlockwise (i.e. 12 buses per hour in total), running City-Portswood-Townhill area-Bitterne-City, with alternate journeys serving Townhill Park Estate or Midanbury. If the timings were right, both Townhill and Midanbury could still have a 10-min frequency to the city, albeit via different routes and on opposite sides of the road. But this would depend on whether (as I think you say) there is a significant local flow from Townhill Park estate to the Midanbury shops, which is missing on such a plan.

(It's actually news to me that the 7 is only every 15 mins, I always remember it being 10-minutely and at one point it was even every 7/8 mins).

Sorry, this would be better done in another post but it's been automerged:

On another matter, I've just checked the morebus website to see what they offer. Strangely, rather than renumbering the ex-Yellow Buses services, they've kept the old numbers, which means there are duplicate route numbers by the same company in the Bournemouth/Poole area, though to be fair one in each duplicate goes to Bournemouth and another to Poole. Even so, I would consider it a lot neater and more logical if they used unique numbers for each of their routes. For example, 11, 12, 13, 18 and 19 are currently unused so there is really no excuse for duplicates. I'd hope they don't try that in Southampton otherwise it will be very confusing:

"When does the Bluestar 8 leave?"
"Which 8 do you mean, the Hedge End 8 or the Hythe 8"?

 

[DaveHarries]

The Townhill area is a bit of a conundrum as you have to link the area to both Portswood and Bitterne, and also ensure that both the estate and Midanbury are served. Thus having just one route even with clockwise and anticlockwise variants, while a nice idea, is a bit tricky. I guess you could run a "grand circle" on a 10-min basis clockwise and anticlockwise (i.e. 12 buses per hour in total), running City-Portswood-Townhill area-Bitterne-City, with alternate journeys serving Townhill Park Estate or Midanbury. If the timings were right, both Townhill and Midanbury could still have a 10-min frequency to the city, albeit via different routes and on opposite sides of the road. But this would depend on whether (as I think you say) there is a significant local flow from Townhill Park estate to the Midanbury shops, which is missing on such a plan.

(It's actually news to me that the 7 is only every 15 mins, I always remember it being 10-minutely and at one point it was even every 7/8 mins).

Or otherwise have two routes with clockwise & anti-clockwise versions of both routes. Service 15 could serve Woodmill Lane and Service 16 could cover Meggeson Avenue. So:
- Service 15A: City Centre - Bitterne - Midanbury (WoodmillLane) - Manor Farm Road - Portswood - RSH - City Centre
- Service 15C: City Centre - RSH - Portswood - Manor Farm Road - Midanbury (Woodmill Lane) - Bitterne - City Centre
- Service 16A: City Centre - Bitterne - Townhill Park (Meggeson Avenue) - Manor Farm Road - Portswood - RSH - City Centre
- Service 16C: City Centre - RSH - Portswood - Manor Farm Road - Townhill Park (Meggeson Avenue) - Bitterne - City Centre

Run them at 2 or 3 buses per hour each during the day: evening journeys could be a circular along the lines of the present 16. I suppose that would be needlessly complex though?

Dave

 

[nw1]

Or otherwise have two routes with clockwise & anti-clockwise versions of both routes. Service 15 could serve Woodmill Lane and Service 16 could cover Meggeson Avenue. So:
- Service 15A: City Centre - Bitterne - Midanbury (WoodmillLane) - Manor Farm Road - Portswood - RSH - City Centre
- Service 15C: City Centre - RSH - Portswood - Manor Farm Road - Midanbury (Woodmill Lane) - Bitterne - City Centre
- Service 16A: City Centre - Bitterne - Townhill Park (Meggeson Avenue) - Manor Farm Road - Portswood - RSH - City Centre
- Service 16C: City Centre - RSH - Portswood - Manor Farm Road - Townhill Park (Meggeson Avenue) - Bitterne - City Centre

Run them at 2 or 3 buses per hour each during the day: evening journeys could be a circular along the lines of the present 16. I suppose that would be needlessly complex though?

Dave

That's precisely what I was trying to get at; sorry if that wasn't clear.

In terms of whether the complexity is "worth it", I guess it depends whether it would require more or less buses than the alternative of keeping the 16 as it is, and introducing (say) a 15-min interval service 14 to replace the 7 - and also whether the Townhill Park Estate-Midanbury and v.v. flow is important. Without checking the timetables, I'd guess the 16 (on a 20 min interval) currently requires 4 buses, while the 7 (on a 15 min interval) currently requires 5, because I suspect it takes just over an hour to go out and back in both cases. Of course, if everything is Bluestar, interworking with other routes could lead to some savings on vehicles needed.

A useful side effect of such a "grand circle", though, would be restoring a Portswood-Bitterne link, which at one point was, IIRC, every 15 mins (via the 4 and 6). These sorts of suburban-centre-to-suburban-centre links have been lost over the years, which means that such journeys must all now go via the centre.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Dec 2022 ==

Sorry, I edited my post later when I realised you might mean this. (This also is fraught with problems; upping the 16 frequency would help to some degree, but St Denys Road and Bitterne Park suffer a huge degradation unless you increase the frequency of the Hedge End to 15-minutely by running some short journeys as far as Chartwell Green roundabout. That could work, I guess).

Actually thinking again about the Townhill Park conundrum, here's a variation of this which would probably keep most happy.

Keep the 16 but up it to a 15-min frequency.

Divert the Hedge End to run via Portswood, Bitterne Park, Cobden Avenue and Mousehole Lane, as suggested by @NIT100 above, on a 30-min frequency. Let's call this the 15.

Run a replacement to the existing 7 on a half-hourly frequency, let's call it the 14, combining with the 15 (above) as far as Bitterne Park triangle (so maintaining 15 mins along St Denys Road) and then up Oaktree Road as now. Would mean Oaktree Road reduces to half-hourly though. Not sure what usage is like along this section.

This would require not so many buses as some other options, but manages to serve most areas with the same frequency as present. Perhaps it would slow down journeys from West End/Hedge End too much, though,

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2022 ==

Some FirstGroup map nostalgia showing the extent of how much its network has declined over the years:

2009

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEjTAK9CF07JAyXbkjT5ED1PYM-yf9BQLJ92S6SRv5qSjnmjQc-TUPtnm44vLfSMrEpRFSbaSC9av8sehsRezjUfQyIIcmkuUIWugSzDvuKUL8AsYFU7IOxITqkabUHsi7vrkVQsCLMlGOwt3t_nJBMKvhqrkYdWF1g2vtqnHYviRqgIMPOP3kBFzs1N

2015

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEijGwgEtCr2Gs_LKwXHE4wi73VjwJzRUoH8FvulXhPTJKGQfGBRF7bGd0xOKzy_DARNYqmxeN8URxnaRu8U6XgBXKt6VE--CvnFGOshKyM2TkQ9Q8JnN3xRNe-lTY_VdYzHQPvt2Wcafm9a1nLRaYtlX4Q3Y35udXbbk7IEkXO95cjjQDcNXLdr4Wng

2022

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEicv4foeBglu-p-ZgWojlSmJ9-n0CSdGRtmts4whiPXtELmtrI7swJlsnyjGq4kbHQQpbwsZpMiEFaU63A5o3oB68juRwMnoSPGWnuG98DP6-wtFGopq7ob0rPZ0yLEcfwspRE_5aD_JPI_XtGmAsuKxXhwlygul6cCw6SBbehexdSI3y3oTqgj2RBM

For some real nostalgia, read this and weep. Citybus routes as at spring 1988, which are much as I remember from 1989/90.

A bus conductor's collection

Southampton City Transport. Uniform items.

www.bob-mockford.co.uk

 

[route101]

Shows you how the services reduced to the North of the City, only bluestar go up the Avenue and there is nothing from the City north to the west of the common.

 

[nw1]

Shows you how the services reduced to the North of the City, only bluestar go up the Avenue and there is nothing from the City north to the west of the common.

Indeed. I remember at one point the 5A (which the 25 later became) provided a 20 min interval service up Hill Lane. The 5 provided a similar frequency to the St James' Road area. Both routes still had good frequency as recently as the mid-00s.

Many secondary roads within the city now have drastically reduced journeys. Peartree Avenue and Merry Oak for example? A 20-min frequency for each as recently as 2003 or so, with the 8/8A. Also the far east, the Butts Road area, used to have a fair number of buses - not sure what goes that way now.

And the Midanbury/Townhill area really did have a superb service at the end of the 80s. Not only the 3A/14 (basically the current 7), and the 8 via Woolston, but also the 4 went up there as well as the 12 on a 15-min frequency from the Bitterne Station area.

To be fair the Unilink services provide everything in the university area so that's not so drastically reduced.

Wonder if such drastic cuts are typical for mid-sized cities throughout the UK compared to the 80s/90s or even early 00s. I'd guess the answer is yes. In late 1989 (if we add in the Solent Blue Line 16 and 18) there were, it appears, 23 "city" routes (I have grouped the 1 and 2 as one route; in late 1989 there was also the 3A to Townhill Park, not shown in 1988). Now there are just 13 (6 First, 4 Bluestar and 3 Unilink; I haven't counted the 6 as a "city" route as it primarily provides service to out-of-city areas, but have counted the 8 much of its route provides service to city areas).

 

[route101]

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.co.uk

Spotted this old bus stop post on this road near the Itchen Bridge. When did a bus last serve this road?

 

[T101KLD]

Such sad news, I drove for City Red for a while a couple of years ago, a very nice group of drivers and managers alike. I always felt looked after there. The 69xxx B7RLE's were an absolute pleasure to drive as well, up there with the best I've personally driven.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.co.uk

Spotted this old bus stop post on this road near the Itchen Bridge. When did a bus last serve this road?

This street can be used if the traffic on Saltmarsh Road was too heavy, you'd follow Canute Road, into Elm Terrace then left onto Albert Road N then line of route

 

[Towers]

Regarding the property and depot premises, neither of the other Hampshire sites are any good for a modern administrative facilituly. There is no space within Hilsea (Portsmouth) depot as the actual building is very cramped and with minimal office space; Hoeford I would suspect is equally unsuitable again being an ancient building, albeit larger than Hilsea. I doubt Weymouth depot is any better?

If the central functions are already set up at Empress Road, it'd be a choice of either staying put or relocating to other office space elsewhere, likely within the city in order to retain the same staff. I could see why staying put might make more sense, at least for the time being. Is there much engineering space downstairs? Perhaps they may look to lease the lower floor and yard out to another fleet operator - where does the council park its refuse fleet, for example? Lots of local authorities operate their own decent maintenance facilities, some do MOT testing. Maybe a shiny newish facility might be tempting?

 

[Beemax]

Regarding the property and depot premises, neither of the other Hampshire sites are any good for a modern administrative facilituly. There is no space within Hilsea (Portsmouth) depot as the actual building is very cramped and with minimal office space; Hoeford I would suspect is equally unsuitable again being an ancient building, albeit larger than Hilsea. I doubt Weymouth depot is any better?

If the central functions are already set up at Empress Road, it'd be a choice of either staying put or relocating to other office space elsewhere, likely within the city in order to retain the same staff. I could see why staying put might make more sense, at least for the time being. Is there much engineering space downstairs? Perhaps they may look to lease the lower floor and yard out to another fleet operator - where does the council park its refuse fleet, for example? Lots of local authorities operate their own decent maintenance facilities, some do MOT testing. Maybe a shiny newish facility might be tempting?

I'm not sure what the ownership status is of Hoeford or Hilsea, but I would have thought that Hoeford at least is situated in a place which might attract residential development, while Empress Road is in the middle of an industrial estate. I agree that the non-office part of ER might be suitable for goods vehicle storage or maintenance.

 

[M803UYA]

Regarding the property and depot premises, neither of the other Hampshire sites are any good for a modern administrative facilituly. There is no space within Hilsea (Portsmouth) depot as the actual building is very cramped and with minimal office space; Hoeford I would suspect is equally unsuitable again being an ancient building, albeit larger than Hilsea. I doubt Weymouth depot is any better?

If the central functions are already set up at Empress Road, it'd be a choice of either staying put or relocating to other office space elsewhere, likely within the city in order to retain the same staff. I could see why staying put might make more sense, at least for the time being. Is there much engineering space downstairs? Perhaps they may look to lease the lower floor and yard out to another fleet operator - where does the council park its refuse fleet, for example? Lots of local authorities operate their own decent maintenance facilities, some do MOT testing. Maybe a shiny newish facility might be tempting?

Weymouth does have some office space - I'm not sure if Slough would have that too. First South West, which is partly under the same management has space within it's operations - they have the same Managing Director now. There's a house beside Taunton garage which Cawlett used as the head office. Customer Services is I think undertaken centrally. Essentially it would be the commercial team and the engineering management functions needing moving elsewhere, if they were completely vacating the Empress Road site. Slightly out of the way, the Somerset Passenger Services operation makes use of office space on the A38 out of Bridgwater and this is under First control. I'm unsure how it relates to First South West as the fleets are kept very much separate.

 

[Towers]

I'm not sure what the ownership status is of Hoeford or Hilsea, but I would have thought that Hoeford at least is situated in a place which might attract residential development, while Empress Road is in the middle of an industrial estate. I agree that the non-office part of ER might be suitable for goods vehicle storage or maintenance.

I'm fairly certain Hoeford will be owned, the building is well over 100 years old and would presumably have been acquired by First along with the former People's Provincial operation.

 

[themeone]

Used a couple of City Reds today, both had posters inside the bus advertising for drivers, as did the small office in Pound Tree Road! Come on First, if you're pulling out, take your posters down!

 

[baza585]

I'm fairly certain Hoeford will be owned, the building is well over 100 years old and would presumably have been acquired by First along with the former People's Provincial operation.

Yes but they may have done a sale and leaseback on it for all we know.......

 

[37114]

I find news of closure pretty amazing based on when I lived in Southampton from 1996 to 2000 there were 4 red buses for every one solent blue line.... I was lucky enough to be there when there were still plenty of Atlanteans before the First days when there were not much younger and distinctly more ropier MCW metrotboxes shipped in from elsewhere to replace them.

 

[Beemax]

I find news of closure pretty amazing based on when I lived in Southampton from 1996 to 2000 there were 4 red buses for every one solent blue line.... I was lucky enough to be there when there were still plenty of Atlanteans before the First days when there were not much younger and distinctly more ropier MCW metrotboxes shipped in from elsewhere to replace them.

As I alluded to in an earlier post, the balance of power between Go-Ahead/Bluestar and First/ Citybus shifted irreversably when Go-Ahead won the Unilink contract in the mid noughties.

 

[route101]

I find news of closure pretty amazing based on when I lived in Southampton from 1996 to 2000 there were 4 red buses for every one solent blue line.... I was lucky enough to be there when there were still plenty of Atlanteans before the First days when there were not much younger and distinctly more ropier MCW metrotboxes shipped in from elsewhere to replace them.

Apart from some Streetdecks, not been regular double deckers with City Red for a while.

 

[nw1]

I find news of closure pretty amazing based on when I lived in Southampton from 1996 to 2000 there were 4 red buses for every one solent blue line.... I was lucky enough to be there when there were still plenty of Atlanteans before the First days when there were not much younger and distinctly more ropier MCW metrotboxes shipped in from elsewhere to replace them.

I remember at the very end of the 80s and the early 90s it was pretty much a solid Atlantean operation. The 17/17A (Weston-Millbrook estate) had newer double-deckers, and there were a small number of single-deckers on some out-of-city routes (the 52 to Petersfield was Citybus for a while) but the Atlanteans definitely dominated.

There seemed to be a transition to a more mixed (single and double) fleet round the mid 90s, but I still remember there being Atlanteans around even in the early 00s; they survived to operate many services on the First (as was) Unilink 101, for example. According to the 1988 timetable link I posted above, the newest examples were Y-registered vehicles from 1982.

 

[Towers]

I remember at the very end of the 80s and the early 90s it was pretty much a solid Atlantean operation. The 17/17A (Weston-Millbrook estate) had newer double-deckers, and there were a small number of single-deckers on some out-of-city routes (the 52 to Petersfield was Citybus for a while) but the Atlanteans definitely dominated.

There seemed to be a transition to a more mixed (single and double) fleet round the mid 90s, but I still remember there being Atlanteans around even in the early 00s; they survived to operate many services on the First (as was) Unilink 101, for example. According to the 1988 timetable link I posted above, the newest examples were Y-registered vehicles from 1982.

Not forgetting of course the East Lancs rebodied Atlantean single deckers!

 

[nw1]

Apart from some Streetdecks, not been regular double deckers with City Red for a while.

They seemed to go shortly after the time of the big route re-organisation and renumbering in 2012, though I do recall seeing some on the 8 and 9 that summer (which interworked).

 

[Lewlew]

The double deckers started to be phased out when the Streetlites came along. The new buses were more fuel efficient and cheaper to run so they ran them on a slightly higher frequency basis.

 

[nw1]

The double deckers started to be phased out when the Streetlites came along. The new buses were more fuel efficient and cheaper to run so they ran them on a slightly higher frequency basis.

For a while of course. Now Townhill Park is 15-min frequency (worse than it ever was in Citybus days) on single deckers!

 

[Beemax]

Not forgetting of course the East Lancs rebodied Atlantean single deckers!

Which ended up being used for Emsworth to Havant routes when Southampton Citybus briefly took over Hants and Sussex in the mid 1990's

 

[GusB]

I realise that the closure of a depot is obviously going to have a knock-on effect on other operators that will inevitably pick up routes here and there, but we should keep this thread for discussing the winding down of First's Southampton operations. I've moved the posts relating to Bluestar to a separate thread, which you can find here:

Bluestar Discussion

Mod note: Posts #1-5 were originally here - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/first-to-close-southampton-depot.240120/page-3#post-5968672 Blue Star are holding a recruitment event (ends tomorrow). Similar to Bournemouth, there's a sign-on bonus. As a clue to the future network, they are...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[317 forever]

It didn't grow so slowly - they did purchase the Southampton and Eastleigh operations of Hampshire Bus in 1987 so that gave them an immediate leg up. However, that aside, you're bang on in that they have done a job on First (who also mismanaged the business) and the Unilink contract really did give them an advantage so that First pulled out of many areas. Also, as alluded to above, you can't imagine that they could manage that level of overhead with an allocation of 52 vehicles.

In some ways, it's sad to see though most engineering and driving staff should hopefully be ok, and perhaps this will put things onto a sustainable footing. Andrew Wickham must be well pleased after seeing off both Yellow Buses and now First in recent months. Whilst GSC aren't perfect, they are a decent firm.

Also in 2017 Go South Coast expanded by taking over Thamesdown Transport.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Also in 2017 Go South Coast expanded by taking over Thamesdown Transport.

The remark was in response to Solent BlueLine growing gradually rather than Go South Coast.

 

[317 forever]

The remark was in response to Solent BlueLine growing gradually rather than GSC.

I was replying to the second half of your post rather than the first half.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I was replying to the second half of your post rather than the first half.

Oh, ok, though that was a purchase - Southampton and Bournemouth have been through strategic victories

 

[Flange Squeal]

The Southampton & District Transport Heritage Trust have today announced on their website that they are to mark First’s withdrawal by holding a running day on Sunday 19th February.

2022 News

Sunday 25th December ​

A very Merry Christmas from us all here at S&DTHT.

We have news......

The Southampton & District Transport Heritage Trust will mark the end of 144 years of transport history on Sunday 19thFebruary 2023 with 'Farewell to Southampton’s Red Buses'. This will also see the return of heritage buses in operation on the streets of Southampton for the first time since September 2019.

The announcement by First Bus the successor of the original operator to close the Southampton depot on Saturday 18th February will bring an end to a chapter of history that started in 1879, when public transport started in Southampton, red vehicles have plied the streets of the City for many years which saw huge changes in the City.

We are grateful for the agreement of First Bus, Bluestar and Southampton City Council for allowing us to mark this occasion.

The event will run from 11:00hrs until 16:00hrs with free to ride heritage buses over three routes: City Centre to Shirley and return, City Centre to Portswood and return and City Centre to Woolston and return. All services will start and finish at Pound Tree Road in the City Centre, unfortunately on this occasion there will be NO boarding the heritage buses apart from the start of the routes.

A souvenir programme giving details will also be available to purchase on the day.

More updates will be posted in due course.

Source: http://www.sadtht.co.uk/news.htm

 

[nw1]

Interesting old timetable available on Timetable World, showing the city routes from 1972.

On the one hand quite radically different from the 80s and 90s in the sense that there was no Itchen Bridge, but some of the route numbers still in existence 20 years later can be traced back to then. For instance the 11 and 13 both went to the University/Bassett Green area via Swaythling and the 14 went to Townhill Park. The 4 and 6 "suburb to suburb" routes existed, albeit as opposite directions on a circular route (similar to the later 6, IIRC) whereas later the 4 went to Totton.

The 1 was a Floating Bridge (City) to Floating Bridge (Woolston) route via Bitterne and Merry Oak, which was not dissimilar to the later 1 (clockwise) / 2 (anticlockwise) of the late 80s and early 90s, though obviously that completed the circle using the Itchen Bridge.

I think Bluestar missed a trick in not using 14 for their takeover of the 7, as the number (still in use in the 90s) can be traced right back to 1972 if not before!