First Rail Stirling (Lumo) Rolling Stock

[cj_1985]

I think they are provisionally due next year, but they aren't for the Stirling operation.

The ones due 2027 are for the Carmarthen service. New 803s (or 802s more likely) are dependant on extension of track access agreement for the Stirling service.

 

[43102EMR]

According to RAIL magazine they’re being formed as 5 coaches now instead of 6, when did this change?

 

[Port Road]

The nature of the calling pattern (especially between stations midlands to north) suggests there is more potential for walk up fares between certain stations that aren't booked for whole route end to end

It will be so refreshing to be able to travel the WCML withot stopping at Warrington or Wigan!

 

[Clarence Yard]

According to RAIL magazine they’re being formed as 5 coaches now instead of 6, when did this change?

I wouldn’t put too much faith in what RAIL has said.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I thought the additional 802s were due like 2029, I might be thinking of Grand Centrals

Have class 802s been confirmed for either Lumo and Grand Central's new stock then?

Apparently, FirstGroup ordered 14x five-car Hitachi Class 80x trains in late 2024, with delivery of the first unit(s) due 'late 2027'. However, it was stated that these would be for the Carmarthen route "as well as increasing existing Lumo and Hull Trains services". As such, the order apparently is for "a mixture of electric, battery electric and bi-mode trains" (presumably therefore additional class 803 EMUs for Lumo, class 802 bi-modes for Hull Trains and either 802s, 805s or yet another new class number for the Carmarthen route?). There was appartently also an option for 13 more 5-car units if ORR approve applications for Euston-Rochdale, Paddington-Paignton and extending Lumo's ECML services to Glasgow, for a total of 27 more 5-car 80x units (ouch).

 

[Snow1964]

Have class 802s been confirmed for either Lumo and Grand Central's new stock then?

Apparently, FirstGroup ordered 14x five-car Hitachi Class 80x trains in late 2024, with delivery of the first unit(s) due 'late 2027'. However, it was stated that these would be for the Carmarthen route "as well as increasing existing Lumo and Hull Trains services". As such, the order apparently is for "a mixture of electric, battery electric and bi-mode trains" (presumably therefore additional class 803 EMUs for Lumo, class 802 bi-modes for Hull Trains and either 802s, 805s or yet another new class number for the Carmarthen route?). There was appartently also an option for 13 more 5-car units if ORR approve applications for Euston-Rochdale, Paddington-Paignton and extending Lumo's ECML services to Glasgow, for a total of 27 more 5-car 80x units (ouch).

The Hitachi announcement 6 Dec 2024 says the 14 trains (70 vehicles) are electric or bi-mode, presumably the reference to battery (in opening description) therefore only applies to the 13 options

The agreement announced today will deliver 14 new five-car class 80X Hitachi electric or bi-mode trains (a total of 70 cars), which will not only give FirstGroup a homogenous fleet across its open access operations and provides flexibility and reliability for customers, but also facilitates FirstGroup's strategic objective of materially increasing its open access capacity. Delivery of the new trains is expected to commence in late 2027. The lease will be financed by Angel Trains, adding to their portfolio of Hitachi assets. The trains will be maintained by Hitachi at their facilities around the country.

Fourteen new trains to drive first rail open access growth

Search Hitachi press releases and official announcements.

www.hitachi.com

The 222s for Stirling service were announced with a 5 year maintenance contract, (guessing from about mid 2026 to mid 2031) which suggests there are no plans to replace them within 5 years (although that doesn't preclude moving Lumo fleets between routes)

 

[Wyrleybart]

The Hitachi announcement 6 Dec 2024 says the 14 trains (70 vehicles) are electric or bi-mode, presumably the reference to battery (in opening description) therefore only applies to the 13 options

Fourteen new trains to drive first rail open access growth

Search Hitachi press releases and official announcements.

www.hitachi.com

The 222s for Stirling service were announced with a 5 year maintenance contract, (guessing from about mid 2026 to mid 2031) which suggests there are no plans to replace them within 5 years (although that doesn't preclude moving Lumo fleets between routes)

The First Group plans seem a mixture of operations requiring different traction types. The extension from Edinburgh to Glasgow Queen St is all under 25kV and if necessary diverting to Glasgow Central via Carstairs and Motherwell is also 25kV so existing class 803s would be no bother. On the other hand the Paddington-Carmarthern services would need diesel beyond Cardiff if running Badminton and SWML, but if diverted via Box they would need diesel from Chippenham to Patchway in addition to west of Cardiff.

The proposed Rochdale services if they happen would also need diesel to get to Rochdale also. I have seen a comment somewhere where perhaps the 222s if replaced by AC traction could / would migrate to the proposed Cardiff - York service should that come to pass, so it would be logical to put the next tranche of class 803 onto the Stirling services to free up diesels for routes which require at least some diesel traction. That is unless FG become the guinea pig for Hitachi battery traction in IETs - maybe after the TPE class 802 trial. Guessing a battery traction fitted 80x get from Miles Platting to Rochdale on batteries. Or whether one could get from Severn Tunnel Junction to Bromsgrove, then Proof House to Sheffield on a charge.

 

[GilfachFargoed]

ddd

The First Group plans seem a mixture of operations requiring different traction types. The extension from Edinburgh to Glasgow Queen St is all under 25kV and if necessary diverting to Glasgow Central via Carstairs and Motherwell is also 25kV so existing class 803s would be no bother. On the other hand the Paddington-Carmarthern services would need diesel beyond Cardiff if running Badminton and SWML, but if diverted via Box they would need diesel from Chippenham to Patchway in addition to west of Cardiff.

The proposed Rochdale services if they happen would also need diesel to get to Rochdale also. I have seen a comment somewhere where perhaps the 222s if replaced by AC traction could / would migrate to the proposed Cardiff - York service should that come to pass, so it would be logical to put the next tranche of class 803 onto the Stirling services to free up diesels for routes which require at least some diesel traction. That is unless FG become the guinea pig for Hitachi battery traction in IETs - maybe after the TPE class 802 trial. Guessing a battery traction fitted 80x get from Miles Platting to Rochdale on batteries. Or whether one could get from Severn Tunnel Junction to Bromsgrove, then Proof House to Sheffield on a charge.

Whilst at face value it may look logical, I understand that available traction current is an issue on the WCML, as it is on the ECML (where TPE 802s have to revert to diesel for some stretches). Hence whilst running 222s is 'diesel under the wires' those wires need an upgrade to the power supply for various parts of the WCML to enable electric operation of additional services.

 

[fgwrich]

222001 is now in Lumo Blue at Widnes. Photos from Today’s Railways Twitter feed.

The first 222 for @LumoTravel (222001) is now in Lumo blue as part of its refurbishment by Alstom at Widnes. Five former EMR 222s, as 6-cars, will be used on Lumo’s new Euston-Stirling service, with the first trains running in May and the full service launching on 27 July. Lumo

 

[ScottGallagher]

Whats being done to the interior ? The renditions look like the recovered seats EMR slapped on a couple of years ago.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Whats beingdone to thr interior ? The renditions look like the recovered seats EMR slapped on a couple of years ago.

New FISA LEANs in the ex first class areas, changing to 2+2, existing seats with no changes in Standard. It doesn't even appear like they are getting new covers as they have had them quite recently, hence the grey colour instead of their usual blue.

 

[ENC Rail]

222001 is now in Lumo Blue at Widnes. Photos from Today’s Railways Twitter feed.

I think this livery looks great on the 222s, hopefully we will see it out and about soon!

 

[westcoaster]

222001 is now in Lumo Blue at Widnes. Photos from Today’s Railways Twitter feed.

Looks like Midland mainline Teal has survived again ( they have never repainted inside the headlight clusters*, MML,EMT,EMR now Lumo).
* sad fact i know but, something Ive always noticed.

 

[43096]

Looks like Midland mainline Teal has survived again ( they have never repainted inside the headlight clusters*, MML,EMT,EMR now Lumo).
* sad fact i know but, something Ive always noticed.

The 222s never carried MML teal, they were delivered in the white/ocean blue scheme.

 

[Amos390]

222001 is now in Lumo Blue at Widnes. Photos from Today’s Railways Twitter feed.

Looking very nice, like it a lot.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Mar 2026 ==

Also are 001-004 definitely being brought down to 6 cars still, with 005 being strengthened to 6, or has that changed, and then if they are going to 6 cars, what units are gaining/losing what coaches (if anyone knows that)?

 

[CR165022]

Also are 001-004 definitely being brought down to 6 cars still, with 005 being strengthened to 6, or has that changed, and then if they are going to 6 cars, what units are gaining/losing what coaches (if anyone knows that)?

Are they still going down to 6? Because 002 has already been shortened but to 5 instead. Pretty sure whatever spare coaches there are afterwards are going to ScotRail, though.

 

[fgwrich]

The 222s never carried MML teal, they were delivered in the white/ocean blue scheme.

Indeed, I can’t remember if they launched the MML Ocean Blue livery or if that came with Rio, but they were certainly delivered in Ocean Blue.

Plus they were never painted in EMR, just vinyled.

 

[liamf656]

Are they still going down to 6? Because 002 has already been shortened but to 5 instead. Pretty sure whatever spare coaches there are afterwards are going to ScotRail, though.

I believe the plan is to still run them as 6 coaches

 

[43096]

Indeed, I can’t remember if they launched the MML Ocean Blue livery or if that came with Rio, but they were certainly delivered in Ocean Blue.

Plus they were never painted in EMR, just vinyled.

The ocean blue scheme debuted on 43074 and 43166 in March 2003, so just ahead of Rio.

 

[Amos390]

Plus they were never painted in EMR, just vinyled.

Yes, and on a lot of units you can see the original beachball paint poking out in places from beneath the Interim, especially around doors and headlights.

 

[Clarence Yard]

I believe the plan is to still run them as 6 coaches

It is indeed. 60341-4 are coming out of 222001-4 and 60344 will be going into 222005. 60341-3 will become the spare off lease cars.

 

[RealTrains07]

Rather than taking 4 sets of 7 coaches and 1 set of 5, surely it would have made better sense to have 222001 - 003 and have 005 and 006 which are 5 coaches then you only have to remove the 3 spare coaches from 001 - 003 to increase 005 and 006 to 6 coaches and then only need to send 1 spare coach off lease which instead of 3 as current as its a poor use of rolling stock?

 

[liamf656]

Rather than taking 4 sets of 7 coaches and 1 set of 5, surely it would have made better sense to have 222001 - 003 and have 005 and 006 which are 5 coaches then you only have to remove the 3 spare coaches from 001 - 003 to increase 005 and 006 to 6 coaches and then only need to send 1 spare coach off lease which instead of 3 as current as its a poor use of rolling stock?

What would you do with 222004, which is also a 7 car?

 

[RealTrains07]

What would you do with 222004, which is also a 7 car?

Leave it with EMR? A full 7 coach train is more useful to another company than 3 spare coaches.

 

[Clarence Yard]

One single 7 car is no use to the two TOCs who are leasing the units. It’s all a moot point anyway as the decisions have been made.

 

[Johnrail]

Why have lumo went for class 222's ? is it because of power issues south of crewe they didn't get electric units or just what was available to them ?

 

[hexagon789]

Why have lumo went for class 222's ? is it because of power issues south of crewe they didn't get electric units or just what was available to them ?

Pretty much what was available now, that was likely the primary consideration.

There is a plan to I believe to transition to new electric trains and use then use the 222s on a new route.

 

[Johnrail]

Pretty much what was available now, that was likely the primary consideration.

There is a plan to I believe to transition to new electric trains and use then use the 222s on a new route.

‘All-electric’ Lumo forced to operate diesel trains on new service due to power shortage​

Power supply constraints are impacting electric operators on the West Coast Main Line​

Natalie WilsonMonday 19 January 2026 16:37 GMT

i was reading the article with the above quote from the independent newspaper,

 

[hexagon789]

‘All-electric’ Lumo forced to operate diesel trains on new service due to power shortage​

Power supply constraints are impacting electric operators on the West Coast Main Line​

Natalie WilsonMonday 19 January 2026 16:37 GMT

i was reading the article with the above quote from the independent newspaper,

There are power supply constraints yes, but equally there's no immediately available stock for Lumo to use other than the 222s, which just happen to be diesel.

 

[Merle Haggard]

It is indeed. 60341-4 are coming out of 222001-4 and 60344 will be going into 222005. 60341-3 will become the spare off lease cars.

Bit late, I know - but is there any special reason why this series was chosen to discard rather than the MFs next to the DMF? (the ones with slightly random numbers, 60345/6, 60445/6 - I think).