First Purchase Opportunity

[GrantR]

Morning folks,
Below is an email I sent across to GWR about my experience this morning. I was wondering if you had anything to say about this, am I in the right or the wrong here?

Hi GWR,

This morning I was travelling from Winnersh Triangle to Henley, and intended on buying a Thames Branches Day Ranger to cover this and other journeys I was making that day. Winnersh Triangle doesn't have a ticket office at that time in the morning, and TVMs don't sell rangers. No conductor on the train to reading either. On arrival at reading, I noticed I had 5 mins to make a Twyford connection, and as I'm unfamiliar with Reading station, ran across to the platform. From there, no conductor to Twyford. At Twyford, I was walking towards the ticket office to pick up a ticket, when I saw that the stations side gate was open, with a sign reading "gate open when ticket hall closed". So I assumed that meant the ticket hall was closed, again being unfamiliar with Twyford station. When I got the Henley train, the person selling tickets got to me, so I asked for a Thames Branches Day Ranger. Long story short, he assumed I was a fare dodger, and refused point blank to sell me a day ranger, instead selling me a return, an extra amount of money that I can't really afford to pay.

Couple of points from this
1) As far as I was aware at the time, this was my first opportunity to pay. He did tell me about the excess window at Reading BUT there is a clause in the conditions of carriage that says that I only have to buy one there IF there is sufficient time. 5 minutes and a new station is NOT sufficient time. Secondly, Twyford has misleading signs. Under the consumer protection act which you're now part of as of 2016, a clause from that states "information that is spoken or written, that I rely on, is binding". The signage at Twyford, I believe, is incorrect, which lead me to having to pay extra.

2) Your revenue inspector (I assume) on the Henley line is incorrect. I did not abuse this inspector at any point, just point out parts of law that I was following. If he's not following this law, I believe he's committing an illegal act, which should result in disciplinary action.

If there is anything else you need, please don't hesitate to email me back for further details. I will be happy to help, but end of the day, all I ask for back is a disciplinary (if necessary) for this man, and my £5 back. I wouldn't say no to a little bit extra over on top of that, as the distress he has caused me today was quite excessive.

I know this isn't a prosecution, but the social media team said this was the best place for me to go.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and I look forward to reading your response in due course.

Regards,
Grant
​

Incidentally, I do understand railway law and completely understand that tickets should be paid for before travel, but this is my first time down here and when you've got Asperger's like myself, new places can be a little daunting, hence my reliance on signs to help me out.

 

[yorkie]

The inspector was wrong; there is no requirement to miss a train to purchase a ticket at an interchange station.

Their behaviour is consistent with what I have witnessed and I know several other people have experienced in this area, so I am not surprised, sadly. You are not the only person to be mistreated by them and you certainly won't be the last.

If they do not refund you, the matter can be escalated to Transport Focus.

Do you have a Disabled Railcard? If not, it may be worth checking if you are eligible for one, as some train companies have policies to effectively treat people holding such Railcards a bit better than they otherwise might.

 

[furlong]

So what did you buy? A single/return(?) from Winnersh Triangle to Henley (with railcard?) plus - from someone else later? - a Thames Branches Day Ranger? That's a considerably more expensive ticket than the simple return, so I really don't understand this - why would you only sell someone a cheaper ticket than the one they needed? Under the old Conditions of Carriage you were obliged to buy a ticket for the first part of your journey, which would be accepted as part payment against the ranger - but Condition 3 was deleted so if you attempt that now, you have no guarantee that the extra money paid out will be credited against the required ticket.

 

[GrantR]

Thanks Yorkie, I was sure that was the case but just wanted to check. I will of course escalate it if need be, but hope they see sense before then. I do not, no, I have a 16-25 one instead, but I'll have a look once this one runs out if I am, so thanks for that.

To yourself Furlong, yes indeed, a 16-25 return Winnersh T to Henley, and then on arrival at Henley, a Thames Branches Day Ranger. I'm not sure why either, I would have completely got it if it had been a full return/single but the fact it was a discounted off peak one makes no sense. In hindsight i think he may have been unable (unwilling even?) to find it on his machine, but seeing as I'd bought a Cambrian Day Ranger off someone with an identical machine earlier in the week, surely all day rangers are in there somewhere? I can't comment on that condition as i was unaware it existed!

 

[najaB]

I'll only comment on the 'misleading' signage. It says the gate is open when the ticket office is closed, it doesn't say the gate is closed when the ticket office is open. If it had the word 'only' in there then it would be misleading.

Small distinction, but relevant.

 

[GrantR]

Fair enough najaB, i may have got the wrong end of the stick with that signage! Either way, as Yorkie says they're in the wrong it's not an argument I'll pursue if it comes to that.

Out of interest, before being asked to pay the £5 he wanted my name and address off me or the £5. If I had declined would this still be an offence, even though he's in he wrong?

 

[najaB]

If I had declined would this still be an offence, even though he's in he wrong?

Yes. An officer of the railway has the right to ask for name and address if they have reason to believe that a breach of the rules has occurred.

 

[robbeech]

Would you be willing to tell us which services you caught? Particularly the first and second one.

 

[GrantR]

Certainly.

0702 Winnersh Triangle to Reading arr 0710
0718 Reading to Twyford arr 0724
0750 Twyford to Henley arr 0803

Just in case, I'll also add these points:
I was right at the back of the service into Reading and it took me a good couple of minutes to walk down the platform.
0718 service departed late and arrived late, and once I'd seen the gate sign at Twyford I noticed a turbo arrive, so I assumed that it was the Henley service. Wanted to make sure I didn't miss it, so I boarded it instead of doing any further investigation of the ticket office (which in hindsight I probably should've done, especially because it didn't leave for another 10 or so minutes)

 

[Bletchleyite]

What the member of staff did wasn't even consistent with what he should have done if he believed you were not entitled to buy on board, which is to sell an Anytime Single (or issue a PF, if so trained).

 

[robbeech]

Certainly.

0702 Winnersh Triangle to Reading arr 0710
0718 Reading to Twyford arr 0724
0750 Twyford to Henley arr 0803

Just in case, I'll also add these points:
I was right at the back of the service into Reading and it took me a good couple of minutes to walk down the platform.
0718 service departed late and arrived late, and once I'd seen the gate sign at Twyford I noticed a turbo arrive, so I assumed that it was the Henley service. Wanted to make sure I didn't miss it, so I boarded it instead of doing any further investigation of the ticket office (which in hindsight I probably should've done, especially because it didn't leave for another 10 or so minutes)

I was checking that you had left the minimum connection time at Reading of 7 minutes which you have done. When you said you had 5 minutes to change it was a worry that you had not done this which would have invalidated your argument to a point.