First Potteries Discussion

[dodecahedron67]

It's a loan as Leicester need the low height Streetdecks for something.

Swap back by Monday

 

[G760XRE]

Currently there are 3 ex First Bee Network Manchester E200s sat in the corner of Potteires Adderley Green depot. Anyone know where these are for? Are they at AG for paint?

Adderley Green Depot lineup

In storage at Potteries AG depot for (possibly) painting & onward transfer; E200 44581 YX13BNN E200 44577 YX13BNF E200 44578 YX13BNJ B7RLE 69506 BJ11XHY Streetlite 63416 SV22VWW 22.6.24

flickr.com

 

[43055]

Currently there are 3 ex First Bee Network Manchester E200s sat in the corner of Potteires Adderley Green depot. Anyone know where these are for? Are they at AG for paint?

Adderley Green Depot lineup

In storage at Potteries AG depot for (possibly) painting & onward transfer; E200 44581 YX13BNN E200 44577 YX13BNF E200 44578 YX13BNJ B7RLE 69506 BJ11XHY Streetlite 63416 SV22VWW 22.6.24

flickr.com

I wouldn't be surprised if they are for repaint. It seems that Adderley Green is very good at repainting for everywhere else but it's own fleet considering they have only managed to paint 1 of the ex Eclipse E200's so far.

 

[G760XRE]

I wouldn't be surprised if they are for repaint. It seems that Adderley Green is very good at repainting for everywhere else but it's own fleet considering they have only managed to paint 1 of the ex Eclipse E200's so far.

Very true! Although I did notice one of the ex Eclipse E200MMCs with its paintwork rubbed down. Had its registration plates and fleet numbers removed, so I couldn't determine which one it is.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2024 ==

Noticed today that, unusually, route 25 hasn't got a single Streetdeck on it. Quite a few are on the 6/6A/18 circuit.
Initially I thought maybe it was due to the diversion route for the work outside Stoke Station, but it doesn't involve a low bridge. Possibly passenger numbers are lower at the moment on the 25, and it was felt these higher capacity buses would be better utilised elsewhere maybe?

 

[James101]

Very true! Although I did notice one of the ex Eclipse E200MMCs with its paintwork rubbed down. Had its registration plates and fleet numbers removed, so I couldn't determine which one it is.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2024 ==

Noticed today that, unusually, route 25 hasn't got a single Streetdeck on it. Quite a few are on the 6/6A/18 circuit.
Initially I thought maybe it was due to the diversion route for the work outside Stoke Station, but it doesn't involve a low bridge. Possibly passenger numbers are lower at the moment on the 25, and it was felt these higher capacity buses would be better utilised elsewhere maybe?

Allocations are particularly barmy today with Streetdecks also on the 7/a and 3a/4a. It's common for the deckers to be moved onto the 101 during the uni vacations but never seen them remove them all from the 25 before. The 25 is also full 'mainline' StreetLite operated today, with a few more out on the 98/99 for good measure. Only 7 of 20 'mainline' Streetlites are on their branded routes today (3/a & 4/a).

Random allocation generator to full power at Alderley Green this morning, money well spent on their branding then...

A fleet of 94 vehicles in 9 different liveries, just 7 out of these 94 operating a route they're branded for today.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Very true! Although I did notice one of the ex Eclipse E200MMCs with its paintwork rubbed down. Had its registration plates and fleet numbers removed, so I couldn't determine which one it is.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2024 ==

Noticed today that, unusually, route 25 hasn't got a single Streetdeck on it. Quite a few are on the 6/6A/18 circuit.
Initially I thought maybe it was due to the diversion route for the work outside Stoke Station, but it doesn't involve a low bridge. Possibly passenger numbers are lower at the moment on the 25, and it was felt these higher capacity buses would be better utilised elsewhere maybe?

Allocations are particularly barmy today with Streetdecks also on the 7/a and 3a/4a. It's common for the deckers to be moved onto the 101 during the uni vacations but never seen them remove them all from the 25 before. The 25 is also full 'mainline' StreetLite operated today, with a few more out on the 98/99 for good measure. Only 7 of 20 'mainline' Streetlites are on their branded routes today (3/a & 4/a).

Random allocation generator to full power at Alderley Green this morning, money well spent on their branding then...

A fleet of 94 vehicles in 9 different liveries, just 7 out of these 94 operating a route they're branded for today.

Service 25 is currently diverted using Leek Road in both directions. This means outbound journeys would trigger a low bridge alert for Glebe Street bridge, due to the way that the system is set up. As a result, all vehicles used on service 25 need to capable of passing under Glebe Street bridge, even though they don't. The 64/65 plate Streetlites are too tall due to the aircon pods, so it's only the 13/63 plates Streetlites and the E200's which can be used - and the E200's don't handle the speed humps on Keele Uni campus very well, and they struggle with the turn around the tree at the Sneyd Arms terminus too.

 

[G760XRE]

Service 25 is currently diverted using Leek Road in both directions. This means outbound journeys would trigger a low bridge alert for Glebe Street bridge, due to the way that the system is set up. As a result, all vehicles used on service 25 need to capable of passing under Glebe Street bridge, even though they don't. The 64/65 plate Streetlites are too tall due to the aircon pods, so it's only the 13/63 plates Streetlites and the E200's which can be used - and the E200's don't handle the speed humps on Keele Uni campus very well, and they struggle with the turn around the tree at the Sneyd Arms terminus too.

I didn't realise that would be the case. Thank you for the explanation.

Noticed this morning that bustimes is showing ex Bee Network B7RLE 69510 is on the 23 in new First corporate livery. Surprised as I thought these were for First South Yorkshire.

69510 - BJ11 EBU

Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse 2

bustimes.org

 

[43055]

Routes 6, 7, 11, 18 and 101 have timetable changes on the 21st. As with other first group areas the new times are now a mess with completely random gaps and headways:

6/6A - between 15/20 mins combined. Last buses slightly later that present.
7/7A - between 30/40 mins combined.
11/11B - Will serve Sandford off peak Monday to Friday, presumably via Bambury St, Glasworthy Rd and Heathcote St. Monday to Friday frequency drops to every 12/24 mins. Saturdays and Sundays remains the same frequency.
18 - about hourly. Last bus from Hanley removed on Saturdays but earlier and a later buses from Leek.
101 - about every 30-35 mins.

 

[davehsug]

Routes 6, 7, 11, 18 and 101 have timetable changes on the 21st. As with other first group areas the new times are now a mess with completely random gaps and headways:

6/6A - between 15/20 mins combined. Last buses slightly later that present.
7/7A - between 30/40 mins combined.
11/11B - Will serve Sandford off peak Monday to Friday, presumably via Bambury St, Glasworthy Rd and Heathcote St. Monday to Friday frequency drops to every 12/24 mins. Saturdays and Sundays remains the same frequency.
18 - about hourly. Last bus from Hanley removed on Saturdays but earlier and a later buses from Leek.
101 - about every 30-35 mins.

Probably doing it in the hope that the council puts them for tender and they can grab a bit more cash.

 

[SSmith2009]

Routes 6, 7, 11, 18 and 101 have timetable changes on the 21st. As with other first group areas the new times are now a mess with completely random gaps and headways:

First are using AI software for producing timetables.

I have to agree some of them are a mess. Take the Leicester 14/14A timetable for the summer holidays; it's every 15 mins (7/8 combined) during the off peak but every 18/19 mins (every 9/10 mins combined) at peak times.

 

[G760XRE]

Routes 6, 7, 11, 18 and 101 have timetable changes on the 21st. As with other first group areas the new times are now a mess with completely random gaps and headways:

6/6A - between 15/20 mins combined. Last buses slightly later that present.
7/7A - between 30/40 mins combined.
11/11B - Will serve Sandford off peak Monday to Friday, presumably via Bambury St, Glasworthy Rd and Heathcote St. Monday to Friday frequency drops to every 12/24 mins. Saturdays and Sundays remains the same frequency.
18 - about hourly. Last bus from Hanley removed on Saturdays but earlier and a later buses from Leek.
101 - about every 30-35 mins.

Have to agree with everyone else that it's a mess. I know since my local service 6/6a changed from interworking with the 7/7a to the 18, that some journeys now have a fair wait in Hanley. Without looking in detail I'd hazard a guess this saves a bus a day off the 6/6a/18 circuit. But for those customers at the end of routes 6 especially (Coalville/Parkhall) the service is now once every hour and 5 to 10 minutes. Even in Meir Square, Meir Park, Blythe Bridge it's generally one every 40 minutes. Making the bus even less viable for anyone who has a choice in their travel. As mentioned, probably a play for council support but more passengers get lost in the meantime who never come back. We will never deal with increasing congestion in Stoke with companies like First running the show. Privatisation has failed.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Have to agree with everyone else that it's a mess. I know since my local service 6/6a changed from interworking with the 7/7a to the 18, that some journeys now have a fair wait in Hanley. Without looking in detail I'd hazard a guess this saves a bus a day off the 6/6a/18 circuit. But for those customers at the end of routes 6 especially (Coalville/Parkhall) the service is now once every hour and 5 to 10 minutes. Even in Meir Square, Meir Park, Blythe Bridge it's generally one every 40 minutes. Making the bus even less viable for anyone who has a choice in their travel. As mentioned, probably a play for council support but more passengers get lost in the meantime who never come back. We will never deal with increasing congestion in Stoke with companies like First running the show. Privatisation has failed.

It doesn't save any vehicles with the 6/6A/18 arrangement to running them separate. It may make for more efficient use of drivers and their hours. At peak times there may be a bus saved but as they swap vehicles between routes at that time anyway it may be that something else could be swapped in.
The elastic stretching of frequencies makes sense where buses are captive to a specific route, because it takes longer to complete the circuit and be available for the next departure (ie a 65 minute round trip instead of 55 minutes) means the frequency drops from hourly to every 70 minutes. But retaining that practice when you swap buses in and out between routes makes less sense, especially when you look at the buses working the 25 where buses come into service after the morning peak and finish before the afternoon peak. For reasons known to themselves (and it may be drivers again) they refuse to sweat those assets and maintain, or heaven forbid increase, frequencies at peak hours.

As to the changes, the last bus to Blythe Bridge will be 1801 instead of 1825. The evening service will be two buses together every hour on the 6/6A/36/36A mess - 1846 (6), 1930 (6 and 36A), 2030 (6 and 36A) then every 30 minutes! Artificial Stupidity software strikes again, a person (with some interest in achieiving a good outcome) would have spotted that. Either that or First are being obtuse.

There will be just four buses to Biddulph between start of morning service and afternoon! D & G also operate of course with the 9.

 

[Lewisham2221]

There will be just four buses to Biddulph between start of morning service and afternoon! D & G also operate of course with the 9.

Ever since (the now defunct) Baker's started running the 9 (Hanley) and 94 (Newcastle), nearly 2 decades ago, the amount of passengers using First buses to/from Biddulph has been tiny. I'm surprised they are still bothering at all tbh. Likewise, I'm surprised they continued to operated the 7A around Brown Lees - even D&G figured out that was a complete waste of resources.

 

[Redmike]

Catch a bus to Hanley every 1 hour 20 minutes. I’m sure it will catch on!

 

[G760XRE]

It doesn't save any vehicles with the 6/6A/18 arrangement to running them separate. It may make for more efficient use of drivers and their hours. At peak times there may be a bus saved but as they swap vehicles between routes at that time anyway it may be that something else could be swapped in.
The elastic stretching of frequencies makes sense where buses are captive to a specific route, because it takes longer to complete the circuit and be available for the next departure (ie a 65 minute round trip instead of 55 minutes) means the frequency drops from hourly to every 70 minutes. But retaining that practice when you swap buses in and out between routes makes less sense, especially when you look at the buses working the 25 where buses come into service after the morning peak and finish before the afternoon peak. For reasons known to themselves (and it may be drivers again) they refuse to sweat those assets and maintain, or heaven forbid increase, frequencies at peak hours.

As to the changes, the last bus to Blythe Bridge will be 1801 instead of 1825. The evening service will be two buses together every hour on the 6/6A/36/36A mess - 1846 (6), 1930 (6 and 36A), 2030 (6 and 36A) then every 30 minutes! Artificial Stupidity software strikes again, a person (with some interest in achieiving a good outcome) would have spotted that. Either that or First are being obtuse.

There will be just four buses to Biddulph between start of morning service and afternoon! D & G also operate of course with the 9.

I'd not spotted that regarding the evening service. That's pure madness, and arguably a waste of local taxpayers money, given that the 36A is local authority funded.
I might just contact First, to see what justification they have running 2 buses simultaneously between Hanley and Longton each evening....

 

[markymark2000]

I might just contact First, to see what justification they have running 2 buses simultaneously between Hanley and Longton each evening....

The issue here is that it's the councils responsibility to amend the tender to reflect the changes to the commercial services. It's not the other way around. Therefore First will likely not be able to do anything but complain to Stoke Council that they are funding buses which duplicate over the commercial service. I'd be emailing Stoke Council to possibly get better results.

 

[G760XRE]

The issue here is that it's the councils responsibility to amend the tender to reflect the changes to the commercial services. It's not the other way around. Therefore First will likely not be able to do anything but complain to Stoke Council that they are funding buses which duplicate over the commercial service. I'd be emailing Stoke Council to possibly get better results.

Forgive me as I've never been involved in running a bus company or tendering services - I am mearly a poor sap who has to use them - but that seems bonkers to me.
So First looks at the 6/6a and slowly cuts back the evening services over time. Most likely due to rising costs & reducing patronage meaning it is no longer making them money. Fair enough, they're a business and here to satisfy shareholders 1st and foremost, not provided a service to the travelling public.
Fast forward and the local authority subsequently secures funding to enhance local bus services. They choose to use some of this finding to restore a number of evening services, including those cut back above.
They tender these services (albeit connected to another evening service that was also previously cut). The original operator First wins the tender for these services. The local authority gave a suggested timetable as part on the tender to fill the gaps in service in a logical manner. The original operator goes with this. Service restored to pre cut levels (pretty much). All makes sense so far.
Said operator barely 3 months later uses an AI system to amend its commercial service. This spits out a timetable which, essentially nullifies the benefit of the subsidised service by running at exactly the same time. Thus wasting local authority funding money along with wasting resources, causing unnecessary pollution, etc. Despite it running both the tendered and commercial services.
Yet, despite the operator creating this mess, it is for the local authority to fix it by having make the operator change the timing of the tendered journeys? I'm sorry if I'm missing something, but that course of action seems completely illogical (and also unnecessarily protracted) to me. Are First trying to make services fail even where there's public funding channeled to them, to prop these services up?

Anyway, I sent a complaint in to First earlier today. I await, and expect to be underwhelmed, by their response....

 

[G760XRE]

So today I received FirstBus' response as below. Vague and unclear at best...

Thank you very much for contacting us with your query and suggestion about the service 6/6A and 36A.

We always welcome suggestions from our customers, and we are open to ideas on how we can continue to improve our services. I have passed on your comments to the commercial team for consideration, and we will look at what we can do to improve and go towards future implementations of this.

I want to thank you for taking the time to send in your suggestion as customer feedback is very important to us. Please note that, where suggestions are agreed upon and taken on board, we would not provide a timeframe to our customers as such changes take place as part of our internal processes and would be subject to modification until the point of application.

We will now look at this internally and any changes we make will be posted on our website or reflected in the (timetable, bus route, etc relate this part to their complaint)

Particularly enjoy the fact that the member of staff responding not only didn't finish it off, but left the proforma text there to boot. Very professional....

 

[markymark2000]

So today I received FirstBus' response as below. Vague and unclear at best...



Particularly enjoy the fact that the member of staff responding not only didn't finish it off, but left the proforma text there to boot. Very professional....

Typical response from First. Pre generated reply and hope that you're happy. Whether it's lower quality staff in the shared centres or extremely poor internal processes (Probably both knowing First), you rarely, if ever get any half decent response. You're best going via councillors, if you have a good councillor they can sometimes get decent responses about what is happening and why. OR emails the council and their transport team. They may tell you any discussions that had been had with Firsts commercial team regarding this.

I've never once had anything resolved via First customer service, always had to end up going to a council/councillor or finding the relevant manager and emailing them.

 

[43055]

Enviro 200 MMC 67174 is the second ex Eclipse vehicle to be repainted and the first potteries vehicle to be in the new grey/purple livery

67174 - YX66 WBM

ADL Enviro200 MMC

bustimes.org

 

[G760XRE]

Spotted a couple of unexpected vehicles at Adderley Green depot this morning.

Wright Streetlite DF SN64CTF. Last operated by Trasdev Rosso, shown on bustimes as withdrawn by them in March.

607 - SN64 CTF

Wright StreetLite DF

bustimes.org

Wright Streetlite WF SK18TLJ. Diamond Preson Bus. Last shown in service on 16/7 on bustimes.

20150 - SK18 TLJ

Wright StreetLite WF

bustimes.org

Couldn't get pictures of either unfortunately due to where they'd been parked.
Does anyone know why these two vehicles are on site?

 

[dodecahedron67]

Adderley Green bus depot is used as storage for anything from North West to Ensign. Could be that

 

[EnviroExplorer]

Spotted a couple of unexpected vehicles at Adderley Green depot this morning.

Wright Streetlite DF SN64CTF. Last operated by Trasdev Rosso, shown on bustimes as withdrawn by them in March.

Rotala have acquired all of the Streetlites that Transdev off-leased for their Diamond West Midlands operation. Not sure why it would there though.

 

[dodecahedron67]

Rotala have acquired all of the Streetlites that Transdev off-leased for their Diamond West Midlands operation. Not sure why it would there though.

They may be using the paint shop

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Having changed the times of these services just last week (21st) this is stated for 4 August on the August changes page of the Staffordshire County Council site.

• First Potteries service 6A (Blythe Bridge - Hanley) will have minor timetable changes.
• First Potteries service 11 (Newcastle - Hanley) will have minor timetable changes.

No details found elsewhere and any other changes on routes wholly within Stoke-on-Trent would not be listed there.
Staffordshire August Changes

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Aug 2024 ==

Tucked away on the 'changes from 21 July page', obviously not worth listing more prominently so passengers might actually see it and plan accordingly. Expect complaints on Monday along the lines of 'why has the 6 at 1930 and 2030 not turned up?'.

Update from 5/8/24:
- Service 6, Mon - Fri will now operate at 19:00 and 20:00 (formerly 19:30 & 20:30). This is to ensure a more even spread of services alongside our 36a.
- Service 6, Saturday will now operate at 19:40 (formerly 19:30) to ensure a more even spread of services alongside our 36a.

 

[G760XRE]

Update from 5/8/24:
- Service 6, Mon - Fri will now operate at 19:00 and 20:00 (formerly 19:30 & 20:30). This is to ensure a more even spread of services alongside our 36a.
- Service 6, Saturday will now operate at 19:40 (formerly 19:30) to ensure a more even spread of services alongside our 36a.

I just noticed I'd had an email from First to that effect. Glad they've seen sense after not too long and have restored the evening service level to what they were before the AI generated timetable update to the 6/6A.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Contract due to run 22 July 2024 - 31 March 2026

Second tranche of BSIP services.

Nothing seems to have happened.

Anyone seen or heard anything?

 

[G760XRE]

Second tranche of BSIP services.

Nothing seems to have happened.

Anyone seen or heard anything?

The same happened with tranche 1. Didn't come into force for a good 6 weeks after the publicised commencement date.

Also the closure outside Stoke Station is now only Hanley bound. So Keele bound 25s go past the station entrance again now, meaning Streetdeck operation has returned to the 25 as of this morning

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Details of timetables from 1 September now published on Traveline SW. Search under route timetables and then by operator.
Usual incomprehensible mess from First with random frequencies. I wonder if this new approach is attracting new customers and growing the business?

D & G changes also showing. Stanton's IN2 becomes GO2 and operates Newcastle to Cheadle instead of Hanley to Cheadle.

 

[SeanM1997]

Details of timetables from 1 September now published on Traveline SW. Search under route timetables and then by operator.
Usual incomprehensible mess from First with random frequencies. I wonder if this new approach is attracting new customers and growing the business?

D & G changes also showing. Stanton's IN2 becomes GO2 and operates Newcastle to Cheadle instead of Hanley to Cheadle.

The 103 are not loaded on Traveline SW but on First Potteries website... what a mess of a timetable that is. It's like they want it to fail with the inconsistency

Are any of the changes related to Tranche 2?