First Hull Trains: a possible solution to their rolling stock problem?

[IanPooleTrains]

I was at Donnie today and I got off the train and I hear the boring woman announcer say that the 11:25 FHT service to Hull was coming in so cross over and see it was the GC unit that they have borrowed (180101 if anyone is interested)

However, I think that we can find a solution because this cannot be detrimental to FHT and GC

Surely, would it not be better for FHT to loan some of East Coast's HST reserve stock? HSTs are cleared up to Hull so could this possibly work for First Hull?

 

[TinyTim89]

As far as i'm aware, EC don't have any spare HST stock, in-fact i have heard it on the grapevine that EC were looking to hire a GC HST at one point! Plus they gobbled up any spare sets that EMT had!

With the class 91 major maintenance coming up, they're even on about loaning a class 90 to cover the 91 on maintenence, a very nice thought...but sadly, just a thought

 

[YorkshireBear]

Yeah east coast are utulising all stock on some quite intensive disgrams no slack at all.

 

[Yew]

EMT have 4 HST's stabled near london during off peak?

 

[WillPS]

I think EMT are down to 1 spare set each day now, which isn't a lot when you consider the Meridian fleet has no slack...

 

[IanXC]

Surely, would it not be better for FHT to loan some of East Coast's HST reserve stock? HSTs are cleared up to Hull so could this possibly work for First Hull?

I think the big reason for hiring a GC 180 set is that the crews already sign them, rather than have to learn HSTs. I hope that FHT have realised the value of a 5th set and will bid for one of the remaining sets on a permanent basis to resolve these issues for good.

 

[Max]

The 0625 off Hull was cancelled this morning. So even with 5 sets, Hull Trains are still making cancellations. Not good.

 

[trentside]

How come Grand Central seem to be able to run their 180s with so little fuss? While Hull Trains can barely maintain a service?

 

[Yew]

How come Grand Central seem to be able to run their 180s with so little fuss? While Hull Trains can barely maintain a service?

Because HT have been running their trains with no slack and little time for major maintainance. IIRC they have borowed a GC one to allow them to do a big overhaul mechanically of their own units...

 

[DarloRich]

I was at Donnie today and I got off the train and I hear the boring woman announcer say that the 11:25 FHT service to Hull was coming in so cross over and see it was the GC unit that they have borrowed (180101 if anyone is interested)

However, I think that we can find a solution because this cannot be detrimental to FHT and GC

Surely, would it not be better for FHT to loan some of East Coast's HST reserve stock? HSTs are cleared up to Hull so could this possibly work for First Hull?

Not sure EC have any "reserve stock" :roll: If they did why would they need to hire in an EMT set? As far as i am aware they have absoulty no slack in the HST fleet ( obviously covering planned maintenance, overhaul etc)

If you look at some of the diagrams on http://www.125group.org.uk/diagrams-NXEC.pdf you will see some long distance, intense runs for the EC HST Fleet

The other question could be why GC 180's seem mre reliable than HT ones

 

[Yorkswatcher]

The 0625 off Hull was cancelled this morning. So even with 5 sets, Hull Trains are still making cancellations. Not good.

Glad I was on EC for a change.

 

[tbtc]

How come Grand Central seem to be able to run their 180s with so little fuss? While Hull Trains can barely maintain a service?

GC cancel quite a few services (or, sometimes stop the Sunderland services at Doncaster to connect to Bradford ones, since there's no a spare 180 to run the full Bradford service).

Admittedly when you run only a few services, every cancelled one is more significant than when a TOC like SWT cancels one service

I can't comment on the reliability of GC 180s v HT 180s, but my guess would be that GC have more slack (so can have more units out of service on any one day).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not sure EC have any "reserve stock" :roll: If they did why would they need to hire in an EMT set? As far as i am aware they have absoulty no slack in the HST fleet ( obviously covering planned maintenance, overhaul etc)

If you look at some of the diagrams on http://www.125group.org.uk/diagrams-NXEC.pdf you will see some long distance, intense runs for the EC HST Fleet

I agree with all of that - East Coast really sweat their assets (as did NXEA before them and GNER before them) - when you consider that British Rail only managed three departures from KX most hours with the same number of 91s (albeit a couple fewer HSTs back then) - there was often only one Leeds service, one Newcastle service and one Scottish service. Now there are two/hour to Leeds plus the hourly Newark/York service too... there's not a lot of spare capacity there (hence NXEA wanting the 180s)

 

[northwichcat]

Yeah east coast are utulising all stock on some quite intensive disgrams no slack at all.

East Coast have 2x180s in store and 3x180s that are subleased to Northern which were secured by NXEC but when EC took off they weren't interested in using them.

 

[DarloRich]

I thought the EC 180's had gone "off lease"

 

[northwichcat]

I thought the EC 180's had gone "off lease"

The last I heard was that they were in discussions with DfT and Angel Trains to find a new operator to take them on and until they happens they are technically leased by East Coast.

 

[BOSCH]

The last I heard was that they were in discussions with DfT and Angel Trains to find a new operator to take them on and until they happens they are technically leased by East Coast.

They wont be getting them, ! GC have no real slack what with 180101 at HT,hence that most days the booked 180 diagram from S/land has been an HST(1A61/1N26).GC's hst's recent miles per casualty has been 53500mpc,the 180's have been really poor !!!

 

[No Fault Found]

I thought the EC 180's had gone "off lease"

That's correct.

180102 went to Brush Loughborough several months back and from there it was due to go onward to Kilmarnock to be re-liveried in FirstGroup colours.
180104 followed shortly afterwards.

 

[WillPS]

to be re-liveried in FirstGroup colours.

As opposed to its present livery?

 

[IanXC]

As opposed to its present livery?

Dynamic lines rather than Barbie presumably

 

[T163R]

Poor 180s.
They can't be right.

 

[Clip]

.please delete

 

[No Fault Found]

As opposed to its present livery?

Yes.

It is going to be re-liveried in FirstGroup dynamic lines livery as opposed to the original First Great Western livery it is in at present.