First Group: General Discussion

[Volvodart]

There talk First Glasgow are due new stock in a month or two, Lets hope its a decent amount. Also in a surprising move 57 plate or plates are being done out with wood flooring and USB ports...

They were originally said to be due starting this month, but there has been no sign of them at ADL yet. It has also been mentioned before that they were to start refurbishing Geminis. The ones done before were for specific routes, so probably they will do these for specific routes too.

 

[Volvodart]

The first of the Sheffield Streetlites has now arrived. They either went straight there on arrival in England, or they landed away from the usual entry port, as none had been seen there this weekend, according to the person who posts reports of what has come in on another forum..

 

[route101]

Hopefully deckers for First Glasgow as singles for 3 and 2 routes were a mistake .

 

[Scott mac]

Hopefully deckers for First Glasgow as singles for 3 and 2 routes were a mistake .

New deckers are not for the 2 or the 3

 

[DD12]

Didn't they do that with three schemes in Darlington, Worcester and Peterborough in the early noughties?

I've lived in Worcester for "donkeys years" and I cannot remember any "bus projects" that were financed by anything other than normal Worcester city or Worcestershire county council money -- unless --

- were the short-lived Worcester park+ride (North), and new short-section bus lanes (at the city boundaries - east and west) financed or part-financed by a central government grant ??

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I've lived in Worcester for "donkeys years" and I cannot remember any "bus projects" that were financed by anything other than normal Worcester city or Worcestershire county council money -- unless --

- were the short-lived Worcester park+ride (North), and new short-section bus lanes (at the city boundaries - east and west) financed or part-financed by a central government grant ??

It helped finance the 2003 Solos.

In this document from Peterborough City Council, it said:

“In 2004 the Department for Transport (DfT) invested £10 million in trialling large scale area- wide Smarter Choices programmes in three towns: Darlington, Peterborough and Worcester.

These Sustainable Travel Demonstration Towns (STDTs) were tasked with implementing a holistic package of measures over five years to encourage greater use of walking, cycling, public transport and car sharing by:

• Improving sustainable travel information
• Enhancing infrastructure provision
• Using technology to inform and promote
• Providing services to enable greater uptake of sustainable modes of travel
• Raising awareness of travel options within the city

In order to give the project a local identity it was branded ‘Travelchoice’ – reflecting the importance of individual travel choices. Associated slogans, such as “Your Travelchoice in Peterborough” and “Your city, your move”, emphasised the importance of residents making their own travel choices, but also that they should make positive choices benefiting the city.”

I know what happened in Darlington but you’d have to tell me about Worcester!

 

[DD12]

It helped finance the 2003 Solos.

In this document from Peterborough City Council, it said:

“In 2004 the Department for Transport (DfT) invested £10 million in trialling large scale area- wide Smarter Choices programmes in three towns: Darlington, Peterborough and Worcester.

These Sustainable Travel Demonstration Towns (STDTs) were tasked with implementing a holistic package of measures over five years to encourage greater use of walking, cycling, public transport and car sharing by:

• Improving sustainable travel information
• Enhancing infrastructure provision
• Using technology to inform and promote
• Providing services to enable greater uptake of sustainable modes of travel
• Raising awareness of travel options within the city

In order to give the project a local identity it was branded ‘Travelchoice’ – reflecting the importance of individual travel choices. Associated slogans, such as “Your Travelchoice in Peterborough” and “Your city, your move”, emphasised the importance of residents making their own travel choices, but also that they should make positive choices benefiting the city.”

I know what happened in Darlington but you’d have to tell me about Worcester!

YES !! - That's great info -- Thanks TGW !

- I well remember the "choose how you move" publicity, but I have no memory of the central government money - especially for the Solos.

I should, really, study the matter further, and consider the benefits (if any) and costs, with the benefit of hindsight !

Thanks again !

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

YES !! - That's great info -- Thanks TGW !

- I well remember the "choose how you move" publicity, but I have no memory of the central government money - especially for the Solos.

I should, really, study the matter further, and consider the benefits (if any) and costs, with the benefit of hindsight !

Thanks again !

No problem - thinking on it, it may be that the Solos weren't directly financed but perhaps were a commitment by First as part of the package. There was definitely a link between the new fleet and the package.

 

[Volvodart]

Someone has posted the Sheffield StreetLites have been arriving at Birkenhead.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

See that Phil Medlicott has left First Greater Manchester

 

[Kahuna47]

See that Phil Medlicott has left First Greater Manchester

Yeah, left to go back to Stagecoach a week or two ago - meant to put it up but slipped my mind.

The role is temporarily being filled by the commercial director until a replacement (or buyout ) takes place.

K

 

[Goldfish62]

See that Phil Medlicott has left First Greater Manchester

Good.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Good.

Bit harsh. Think he probably didn’t realise the problem child he was getting!

 

[Robertj21a]

Bit harsh. Think he probably didn’t realise the problem child he was getting!

It will be interesting to see who gets to replace him, if anyone.

 

[Volvodart]

Ian Humphreys who was previously commercial director.

 

[GusB]

An interesting article from Passenger Transport today. It is quite lengthy, so I haven't quoted the whole thing.

http://www.passengertransport.co.uk/2018/04/firstgroup-break-up-likely-after-apollo-bid/

FirstGroup break-up likely after Apollo bid

Although group rejected initial takeover bid as ‘opportunistic’, major changes are expected – especially at under-performing UK bus division

The break-up of FirstGroup is being predicted by City analysts and in the transport industry following a preliminary takeover bid from North American private equity investor Apollo Asset Management.

Although First rejected an initial approach from Apollo as “undervaluing the company” and “opportunistic”, major changes are expected regardless of whether Apollo comes back with a successful bid.

Analysts said First’s continued inability to deliver a substantial recovery across its US and UK divisions, following a £615m funds injection from shareholders in 2013 to pay down debt and invest in new buses, indicated that the task of turning round multiple underperforming businesses was “too big and too complicated”.

There has been a marginal improvement in the large US school bus division’s performance during that period. However, the UK bus division has failed to approach the profit margins achieved by other transport groups, the Greyhound coach business has faltered in the face of intense competition from airlines and cheaper car travel, and the finances of UK rail franchises are under pressure from lower than expected growth.

“Either way, it will not be business as usual, when this reaches its conclusion,” a longstanding City analyst told Passenger Transport. At a minimum, Apollo is expected to exit the UK rail business due to political unease at private equity ownership of franchises. Sale or closure of the worst performing UK bus businesses is also predicted in order to create a higher potential UK bus division.

 

[winston270twm]

An interesting article from Passenger Transport today. It is quite lengthy, so I haven't quoted the whole thing.

http://www.passengertransport.co.uk/2018/04/firstgroup-break-up-likely-after-apollo-bid/

Sounds like it's 'game over' for First Group in it's present form, regardless of an Apollo bid being successful.

 

[Robertj21a]

Sounds like it's 'game over' for First Group in it's present form, regardless of an Apollo bid being successful.

Not really surprising given the time that has passed and the lack of sufficient progress. It will be interesting to see how this is progressed given their previous inability to sell off very much.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

What are the most profitable operations in the UK at present? I can't envisage them looking to flog the Scottish operations unless they're haemorrhaging money left right and centre.

 

[cactustwirly]

What are the most profitable operations in the UK at present? I can't envisage them looking to flog the Scottish operations unless they're haemorrhaging money left right and centre.

Leicester, Bristol, West Yorkshire & Hants & Dorset.

 

[Stef434]

What are the most profitable operations in the UK at present? I can't envisage them looking to flog the Scottish operations unless they're haemorrhaging money left right and centre.

Were the Glasgow and Lanarkshire profitable... taken aside the pension deficit

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Were the Glasgow and Lanarkshire profitable... taken aside the pension deficit

I had a look at the figures for Glasgow No.1 and No.2 but they make no sense at all to me.

 

[Stef434]

I had a look at the figures for Glasgow No.1 and No.2 but they make no sense at all to me.

aye same here worrying times ahead
are whitelaws an official subsidiary of First or does first just supply back office for them and does the impending sell offs affect subsidiaries

 

[Jordan Adam]

Aberdeen is normally a top performer but had a down period in the 2016/17 year, although still got nearly £2M in profit. The Accounts for the 2017/18 period won't be published till the end of this year / early next year so we can't really say for sure how Well they've recovered. But there has been quite a bit of passenger growth since the 2016/17 period and the affects of the Oil Downturn are fading away. There's also been cost saving measures such as the withdrawal of 15 buses (most were surplus anyway).

Certainly interesting times, and we all saw it coming. Although First are not the only ones in this situation it seems, i can't common on how accurate this is as i've not looked in to it but someone was saying to me earlier that Arriva have just cancelled their whole 2018/19 order.

I just hope the Aberdeen operation (if it were to be sold) doesn't go to Stagecoach as that will really be the end for residents!

 

[winston270twm]

Not really surprising given the time that has passed and the lack of sufficient progress. It will be interesting to see how this is progressed given their previous inability to sell off very much.

I'm surprised it's took this long to get to this stage, they have very patient major shareholders.......

 

[winston270twm]

Leicester, Bristol, West Yorkshire & Hants & Dorset.

Cymru / Glasgow & Aberdeen are all up there as well.

 

[winston270twm]

To add to First Group's woes, Flixbus are entering the US low cost long distance coach market, with a team already in the US setting up HQ in Los Angeles:
https://cbwmagazine.com/flixbus-plans-us-expansion/

I suspect Flixbus will be much tougher to compete against compared with Megabus

 

[GaryMcEwan]

aye same here worrying times ahead
are whitelaws an official subsidiary of First or does first just supply back office for them and does the impending sell offs affect subsidiaries

Whitelaws have no connection to First at all. In fact Whitelaws have around for much longer than First.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Sounds like it's 'game over' for First Group in it's present form, regardless of an Apollo bid being successful.

Tend to agree with you. The bid from Apollo will have doubtless generated much discussion in other institutional shareholders and may well have forced First's hand to "do something".

I worked for a business that had a similar rise and fall to First, and the surgery to put it right was far more brutal than First's (though avoiding a rights issue). Results are out in months' time - interesting times for a lot of people.

However, I hope we don't see the usual descent into "oh, I could see X buying Y" type of stuff based on the flimsiest of logic!

 

[Volvodart]

Interestingly, West Face Capital, who had been pushing for something to be done, appear to have recently sold over half their shareholding. They.must have thought it was at a good price to get out, or have given up on the board doing the right thing.