First Group: General Discussion

[TheGrandWazoo]

I regret not riding one but I was waiting for St Margarets bus station to reopen, which it will 2 weeks from now.

I wonder where these E400s will go? As they have already been refurbished it makes sense for them to cover profitable routes.

The suspicion might be Bristol to join the remainder that moved already but a + b doesn't necessarily always = c!

 

[317 forever]

The suspicion might be Bristol to join the remainder that moved already but a + b doesn't necessarily always = c!

I like the idea of them all being there. They could then displace earlier double-deckers to Cornwall.

I doubt I shall go to Bristol until MetroBus is up and running, unless I stop off on the way back from Plymouth sooner.

 

[Robertj21a]

I regret not riding one but I was waiting for St Margarets bus station to reopen, which it will 2 weeks from now.

I wonder where these E400s will go? As they have already been refurbished it makes sense for them to cover profitable routes.

St Margaret's Bus Station hasn't closed, you must be thinking of the Haymarket Bus St'n. It won't reopen until 24th April at the earliest.

It had been suggested that the E400s would join their sisters that went to Bristol but that plan may have now been overtaken by events.

 

[90sWereBetter]

The suspicion might be Bristol to join the remainder that moved already but a + b doesn't necessarily always = c!

I wonder if they're on the way to Norwich to upgrade the Red Line? There are 11 Red Line branded vehicles in Norwich, and I think the PVR is 16 or 17.

 

[THarris123]

St Margaret's Bus Station hasn't closed, you must be thinking of the Haymarket Bus St'n. It won't reopen until 24th April at the earliest.

It had been suggested that the E400s would join their sisters that went to Bristol but that plan may have now been overtaken by events.

I'm not too sure about them heading to Bristol. Maybe Weston will get a couple for 20? I think a few of them may head to Bildgwater? Then the rest maybe to Bristol. Think though the West is a good shout. I'm sure most of you could tell what I would prefer to come back from Leicester into Bristol, but it'll probably never happen.
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I wonder if they're on the way to Norwich to upgrade the Red Line? There are 11 Red Line branded vehicles in Norwich, and I think the PVR is 16 or 17.

What are the 8 Streetdecks going to replace?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm not too sure about them heading to Bristol. Maybe Weston will get a couple for 20? I think a few of them may head to Bildgwater? Then the rest maybe to Bristol. Think though the West is a good shout. I'm sure most of you could tell what I would prefer to come back from Leicester into Bristol, but it'll probably never happen.
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What are the 8 Streetdecks going to replace?

I wonder what will head to Bridgwater to replace the Tridents as the 21 won't require deckers?

 

[90sWereBetter]

What are the 8 Streetdecks going to replace?

The Streetdecks are replacing Presidents on the 11/12 Pink Line. If the Leicester Enviros are coming to Norwich (and I have no idea if they are), they would be replacing Presidents and B7L single deckers on the 23/24 Red Line.

 

[Robertj21a]

The Streetdecks are replacing Presidents on the 11/12 Pink Line. If the Leicester Enviros are coming to Norwich (and I have no idea if they are), they would be replacing Presidents and B7L single deckers on the 23/24 Red Line.

Norwich is not in the frame for the Leicester E400s.

 

[the101]

Norwich is not in the frame for the Leicester E400s.

I imagine that the five non-PSVAR ALX400 B7TLs at Potteries may be replaced by displaced stock from Leicester, although I would imagine that would be Gemini B7TLs rather than E400s. Certainly it has been mentioned that Potteries has no plans to convert the ALX400 B7TLs to comply with the regulations; I believe that a number of early B7TLs from across the group are planned to be disposed of this year, although given which company we are talking about that could soon change.
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Have there been any bids for the money on offer from the Office for Low Emission Vehicles? I know Stagecoach are hoping for a contribution towards 79 flywheel-fitted double-deckers for Cambridge, whilst Nottingham City Transport have put a bid in for gas-powered vehicles. I gather the results are due to be announced imminently.

Money towards 15 single-deckers (either E200 MMCs or StreetLites) for Potteries has been bid for, according to an interview with Nigel Eggleton in Buses magazine.

 

[Robertj21a]

I imagine that the five non-PSVAR ALX400 B7TLs at Potteries may be replaced by displaced stock from Leicester, although I would imagine that would be Gemini B7TLs rather than E400s. Certainly it has been mentioned that Potteries has no plans to convert the ALX400 B7TLs to comply with the regulations; I believe that a number of early B7TLs from across the group are planned to be disposed of this year, although given which company we are talking about that could soon change.
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Money towards 15 single-deckers (either E200 MMCs or StreetLites) for Potteries has been bid for, according to an interview with Nigel Eggleton in Buses magazine.

Are those 5 x ALX400s mainly needed for school work ?
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It seems that the E400s at Leicester are to move on to First Essex.

 

[THarris123]

Are those 5 x ALX400s mainly needed for school work ?
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It seems that the E400s at Leicester are to move on to First Essex.

That's an interesting turn. Didn't think Essex needed many deckers? I assume there will be cascades from Essex to Kernow? It should see off some Tridents, as well as cascade some of the 51 reg stuff too.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That's an interesting turn. Didn't think Essex needed many deckers? I assume there will be cascades from Essex to Kernow? It should see off some Tridents, as well as cascade some of the 51 reg stuff too.

FEE has got a good few Tridents and B7TLs that are some age (though I seem to recall that some of the B7s visited Rotherham for mods??)

 

[Volvodart]

NO updates are scheduled until the results announcement sometime in June.

http://otp.investis.com/clients/uk/first_group/rns/regulatory-story.aspx?cid=858&newsid=696978

FIRSTGROUP PLC
STATEMENT RE PRE-CLOSE TRADING UPDATES

In light of changes in regulatory requirements and market practice, the Board of FirstGroup plc (the 'Group'), has decided to discontinue publishing trading updates around the end of its March and September trading periods. Following discussions with a number of our shareholders and other stakeholders, the Group intends to continue publishing updates on trading after the end of the first and third quarters each financial year, in addition to its full year and half-yearly results. As a result, the number of trading announcements scheduled by the Group will decrease from six to four from our 2016/17 year onwards.

The Board confirms that overall results for the Group in the fourth quarter have been in line with management's expectations and there have been no significant developments since the release of our third quarter 2015/16 trading update (announced 28 January 2016).

The Group is scheduled to announce its full year results on 14 June 2016

 

[overthewater]

https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/firstgroup-undertakings-review

AT LEAST!!!!!!!

Final decision to release undertakings
20 April 2016: Following consultation, the CMA has decided that FirstGroup plc should be released from its undertakings.

* Full Report: https://assets.digital.cabinet-offi...w_of_FirstGroup_undertakings_final_report.pdf

Press Release
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-releases-firstgroup-plc-bus-undertakings

This follows March’s provisional decision to release the undertakings.

The group of independent Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) panel members carrying out the review have found that the undertakings are no longer appropriate due to a change in circumstances.

The CMA announced in October that it would carry out a review of the undertakings given in relation to the completed acquisition by FirstBus plc of SB Holdings Ltd (SBH) in 1996. FirstBus changed its name to FirstGroup in 1997.

Further details, including the CMA’s final decision and notice of release from undertakings, can be found on the case page.

Notes for editors
The CMA is the UK’s primary competition and consumer authority. It is an independent non-ministerial government department with responsibility for carrying out investigations into mergers, markets and the regulated industries and enforcing competition and consumer law.
The members of the review group are: Phil Evans (Chair), Jayne Scott, and Roger Finbow.
The undertakings, affecting FirstGroup’s bus business, were given by FirstGroup to the then Secretary of State for Trade and Industry in 2002 following a review in 1997 by the Monopolies and Mergers Commission of the FirstBus acquisition of SBH. The undertakings were subsequently varied following the Competition Commission’s review of the undertakings in 2008.
The fares cap applies to FirstGroup operations in the First Edinburgh and First Glasgow areas. The First Edinburgh area comprises the unitary authorities of Stirling, Clackmannanshire, Falkirk, West Lothian, Midlothian, East Lothian and the Scottish Borders. The First Glasgow area comprises the unitary authorities of the City of Glasgow, North Lanarkshire, South Lanarkshire, East Dunbartonshire, West Dunbartonshire and East Renfrewshire. The requirement to operate a minimum level of service also known as the ‘mileage floor’ applies to FirstGroup operations in the First Edinburgh area. The price cap and mileage floor do not extend to Edinburgh.
The CMA has the ability to supersede, vary or release certain undertakings accepted under the Fair Trading Act 1973; this includes the FirstGroup undertakings. This power is exercisable in the same circumstances, and on the same terms and conditions as applied to the Secretary of State under the Fair Trading Act 1973; namely that by reason of any change of circumstances the undertakings are no longer appropriate and need to be varied, superseded or released.
For more information on the CMA see our homepage or follow us on Twitter @CMAgovuk, Flickr and LinkedIn.
Enquiries should be directed to Rory Taylor (rory.taylor@cma.gsi.gov.uk, 020 3738 6798).

Now the next game comes into play............... What will First do with this new freedom.

 

[Goldfish62]

That's an interesting turn. Didn't think Essex needed many deckers? I assume there will be cascades from Essex to Kernow? It should see off some Tridents, as well as cascade some of the 51 reg stuff too.

We'll have none of that secondhand tat in Kernow.

Happy to say that 30 x E400MMC due in the Autumn - confirmed by Alex Carter.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Are those 5 x ALX400s mainly needed for school work ?
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It seems that the E400s at Leicester are to move on to First Essex.

The e400 moves are in progress - passed 33552/67/72 on the M1 entering the South at Watford Gap

 

[Robertj21a]

Many are already in service at Basildon.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Many are already in service at Basildon.

Cheers - just reporting the ones I saw but wondered if any had gone down already

 

[the101]

The new vehicle order is being announced tomorrow.

 

[THarris123]

The new vehicle order is being announced tomorrow.

Oh goody. It'll be interesting.

I'd like to see some Scanias and Optares on order, but that may be too good to be true.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Oh goody. It'll be interesting.

I'd like to see some Scanias and Optares on order, but that may be too good to be true.

Scanias? Very unlikely. Even Stagecoach have gone away from them unless you're think Bio Buses?

I'd expect it to be e400 heavy (already a stack confirmed on order) and with Streetdecks if only because Leics/Norwich already have theirs. Might

Few Streetlites (FSY confirmed getting some) and perhaps some e200s but the single decks were largely sorted last year.

Don't see many Optares either. Versa seems out of fashion and seems to be plenty of Solos anyway. It'll be interesting to see what is in store - perhaps some surprises. Here's hoping for a few surprises in types or allocations etc

 

[THarris123]

Scanias? Very unlikely. Even Stagecoach have gone away from them.

I'd expect it to be e400 heavy (already a stack confirmed on order) and with Streetdecks if only because Leics/Norwich already have theirs.

Few Streetlites (FSY confirmed getting some) and perhaps some e200s but the single decks were largely sorted last year.

Don't see many Optares either. Versa seems out of fashion and seems to be plenty of Solos anyway.

Won't the Bristol gas buses be Scanias?

What about some Metrocitys?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Won't the Bristol gas buses be Scanias?

What about some Metrocitys?

I was busy editing when you replied. I did think of the gas bus bid as soon as I replied

I don't see Metrocity getting a look in. They have ADL and Wrightbus as suppliers. Why have another?

 

[overthewater]

Lets hope Glasgow will got some, the place really does need some newer deckers.

 

[90sWereBetter]

I don't think there's anything else new coming to Eastern Counties this year. It's just a case of waiting for what cascades come to Norwich to replace the Red Line Presidents. Everything is now DDA with the last Olympian coming off the road a couple of months ago, and all the W-reg B7s converted to DDA spec.

I imagine there's a fair chunk of stuff going to West Yorkshire to clear out the last Olympians and non-DDA B7s, and probably a load of deckers to Glasgow to clear out the X/Y reg Tridents.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Lets hope Glasgow will got some, the place really does need some newer deckers.

True - can be said of a number of places.

 

[BBC]

True - can be said of a number of places.

Yep Bristol has lots of 15/16 year old deckers.

 

[THarris123]

Yep Bristol has lots of 15/16 year old deckers.

Which in theory will be replaced by 110 gas deckers. I'm more concerned about Bath - they breed the Tridents replaced with something. E400s will replace the W reg ALXs.

Yorkshire should be interesting and I think Scotland will see some cascades, along with Kernow.

 

[BBC]

Which in theory will be replaced by 110 gas deckers. I'm more concerned about Bath - they breed the Tridents replaced with something. E400s will replace the W reg ALXs.

Yorkshire should be interesting and I think Scotland will see some cascades, along with Kernow.

Bath could get a lot of 57/8/9 plate volvo deckers from bristol if they win the bid.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Which in theory will be replaced by 110 gas deckers. I'm more concerned about Bath - they breed the Tridents replaced with something. E400s will replace the W reg ALXs.

Yorkshire should be interesting and I think Scotland will see some cascades, along with Kernow.

I'd be surprised if the 110 arrive in one year - more likely over two or three. Even then, there may well be cascades out of the region. Certainly, there's a lot of middle aged deckers in Bristol but the same is true of many other areas.