First Group: General Discussion

[Blindtraveler]

The thought of NX Getting there hands back on it is scary although I agree it would be the lifeline First need to keep Scottish bus opps going. would be nice to see someone like MTR having a bash at it!

on another note and not sure if its been mentioned but First will soon have some competition on the Haddington>Edinburgh run soon!↲

 

[Volvodart]

The thought of NX Getting there hands back on it is scary although I agree it would be the lifeline First need to keep Scottish bus opps going. would be nice to see someone like MTR having a bash at it!

For once I am in agreement with you!

 

[winston270twm]

The thought of NX Getting there hands back on it is scary although I agree it would be the lifeline First need to keep Scottish bus opps going. would be nice to see someone like MTR having a bash at it!

on another note and not sure if its been mentioned but First will soon have some competition on the Haddington>Edinburgh run soon!↲

Why? NX is a completely different business headed by completely different management.

It wasn't so much an issue with the service East Coast provided under NX, it was the fact the original NX group bid led by Richard Bowker was way too optimistic for revenue growth projections & the credit crunch/followed by recession hit.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I would not place too much credence on BoA, as they have been well wrong before:-

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/sharewatch/market-report-first-group-boosted-by-easier-road-ahead-8557595.html

To be fair, did anyone predict First Group shares would plummet & that they would need to have a big discounted right issue to raise funds?

 

[overthewater]

To be fair, the writing was on the wall in connection to the shares, the company was in a right mess and when First were banking all its eggs into one basket, that is not good business plan. Looking back it may have been the best thing for First.

More transfers in First Scotland East:

Three Solos have transferred up from Bradford. Balfron, has one at least not sure where the other two have gone:

Also 62135/6 should be appearing soon at FSE from First Aberdeen. First Aberdeen have also taken a load of B10BLEs as, the stock is now surplus to requirements. Free to any good home
https://www.flickr.com/photos/41987105@N06/14817237100/

So overall, alot of fleet replacements taken place, hopeful this will now result in all T Reg and older being taken out of service.

When it comes to the competition on the Haddington to Edinburgh route by Lothian buses, will you could have been mistaken it was about to take place. No details anywhere, and it starts in two weeks.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

To be fair, the writing was on the wall in connection to the shares, the company was in a right mess and when First were banking all its eggs into one basket, that is not good business plan. Looking back it may have been the best thing for First.

With more fairness, whilst the fundamental issues in relation to the business were apparent, how many were on here predicting a rights issue?

Also, people foretold divestments and predicted 27 of the 8 sales....

 

[robertclark125]

And in fairness I was among those thinking some parts of FSE would be sold. They haven't, and indeed First is investing in those areas, albeit in a small way. But, a small way is better than no way at all.

It's clear that a lot more work needs to be done at FSE; but if management can be given a free reign to try some changes, and innovations, things may improve.

But, it must be mentioned, that not only have First got to make the commitment, but the travelling public must do so as well. It's all very well First making major improvements, launching new routes, new buses, and a better commttment to appearance. The services only survive if the public decide to use them. So, my message to people is, let First make the improvements, and then go out and try the service and product for yourself. You never know, you may like it.

 

[overthewater]

Here are the details about the new Haddington service. http://lothianbuses.com/news/article/lothian-country-buses-is-extending

Timetable: http://lothianbuses.com/assets/files/r104-113_140907.pdf
Service 104 is a express service, with cheaper fares all round.

 

[oldman]

When it comes to the competition on the Haddington to Edinburgh route by Lothian buses, will you could have been mistaken it was about to take place. No details anywhere, and it starts in two weeks.

Now available, seven day service, half-hourly daytime, hourly evening, local but bypassing Musselburgh. A bit cheaper.

 

[winston270twm]

With more fairness, whilst the fundamental issues in relation to the business were apparent, how many were on here predicting a rights issue?

Also, people foretold divestments and predicted 27 of the 8 sales....

The rights issue only became a necessity after the WMCL contract was stripped from First Group & First Group Plc also lost its investment grade status

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The rights issue only became a necessity after the WMCL contract was stripped from First Group & First Group Plc also lost its investment grade status

Again, how many predicted it?

 

[winston270twm]

Again, how many predicted it?

None, as it wasn't even an option until the WCML win was announced & know one would ever of thought Virgin would contest it & win.

All the predictions centred around First Group's existing businesses only at the time.

 

[alexf380]

Now available, seven day service, half-hourly daytime, hourly evening, local but bypassing Musselburgh. A bit cheaper.

Throughout the day it's timetabled to leave Haddington at 05 and 35 mins past, that's 5 and 10 mins respectively before First's X6/X8. This should be interesting...

 

[winston270twm]

More transfers in First Scotland East:

Also 62135/6 should be appearing soon at FSE from First Aberdeen. First Aberdeen have also taken a load of B10BLEs as, the stock is now surplus to requirements. Free to any good home
https://www.flickr.com/photos/41987105@N06/14817237100/

Those X-reg B10BLE/Wright Renowns should still be decent buses, with a repaint & retrim they should help to improve the standard of the fleet.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

None, as it wasn't even an option until the WCML win was announced & know one would ever of thought Virgin would contest it & win.

All the predictions centred around First Group's existing businesses only at the time.

It was the fact that the government then delayed the decision because of the challenge and the absence of that revenue and EBIT meant they couldn't struggle on with the debt burden. I know someone on First's WCML bid team and the win and reverse was devastating!

However, these things do happen (evidently)!! And yeah, those B10BLEs should still do a job for a while. IMO, they're modern classics and if you travel on Transdev B&Ps refurbed ones, you wouldn't believe they're Y regs!!

 

[winston270twm]

It was the fact that the government then delayed the decision because of the challenge and the absence of that revenue and EBIT meant they couldn't struggle on with the debt burden. I know someone on First's WCML bid team and the win and reverse was devastating!

However, these things do happen (evidently)!! And yeah, those B10BLEs should still do a job for a while. IMO, they're modern classics and if you travel on Transdev B&Ps refurbed ones, you wouldn't believe they're Y regs!!

How come you didn't predict it then with your inside info ??? :P

I agree the B10BLE's particularly with Wright bodywork should still be able to provide a high quality service for some years to come. In addition the Wright bodywork has aged well & is well constructed.

What are your predictions on First winning/retaining ScotRail, East Coast or TransPennine rail franchises?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

How come you didn't predict it then with your inside info ??? :P

What are your predictions on First winning/retaining ScotRail, East Coast or TransPennine rail franchises?

Because they believed they were the winners, fair and square!! They were as surprised if not more so :cry:

My guesses are Scotrail (loss), ECML (win) and TPE (hold). No evidence, no inside info, just how the water feels today

 

[winston270twm]

Because they believed they were the winners, fair and square!! They were as surprised if not more so :cry:

My guesses are Scotrail (loss), ECML (win) and TPE (hold). No evidence, no inside info, just how the water feels today

Had First been able to run with their WCML win, the prospects for First Group would have been completely different to now.

I agree on Scotrail, I think NX will get it thanks to Mary Grants input.
ECML I'm not so sure it will go to First, the joint Eurostar/Keolis bid is also an interesting contender. However, I doubt Virgin/Stagecoach bid would succeed.
TPE is agree, I think it will be retained.

 

[Robertj21a]

How come you didn't predict it then with your inside info ??? :P

I agree the B10BLE's particularly with Wright bodywork should still be able to provide a high quality service for some years to come. In addition the Wright bodywork has aged well & is well constructed.

What are your predictions on First winning/retaining ScotRail, East Coast or TransPennine rail franchises?

Are those B10BLEs DDA-compliant ?. They wouldn't normally be, unless they've been modified.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Are those B10BLEs DDA-compliant ?. They wouldn't normally be, unless they've been modified.

The wheel arches shouldn't be an issue and the rest could be done cost efficiently?

 

[winston270twm]

The wheel arches shouldn't be an issue and the rest could be done cost efficiently?

I'd have thought at X-reg, they shouldn't need a lot doing to them to make them DDA compliant

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'd have thought at X-reg, they should need a lot doing to them to make them DDA compliant

Wheelchair ramp, LEDs and ironing boards are main items. Tends to be Darts where wheel arches encroach.

 

[winston270twm]

Wheelchair ramp, LEDs and ironing boards are main items. Tends to be Darts where wheel arches encroach.

Sorry typo, my previous post said 'should' instead of shouldn't need a lot doing to them'. The X-reg Aberdeen B10BLE/Wright Renowns already have wheelchair ramps fitted, so shouldn't need a great deal doing to them to make them DDA compliant

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Had First been able to run with their WCML win, the prospects for First Group would have been completely different to now.

I agree on Scotrail, I think NX will get it thanks to Mary Grants input.
ECML I'm not so sure it will go to First, the joint Eurostar/Keolis bid is also an interesting contender. However, I doubt Virgin/Stagecoach bid would succeed.
TPE is agree, I think it will be retained.

Think it's regarded as doubtful that Virgin would get the ECML and that the Keolis JV is a strong candidate. Whoever gets it will probably have some soft targets as the government can't risk a third throwing in of the franchise during the next parliament (or am I being cynical).

 

[90019]

Wheelchair ramp, LEDs and ironing boards are main items.

Which LEDs?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Well the Proverbial has hit the fan. New Lothian Country Buses Service 104 aetween Hadington and Edinburgh starts 7th Sept. Announcement on Lothians website. £3.50 ↲single to Edinburgh!↲

 

[Robertj21a]

Which LEDs?

Destination/route number.

 

[90019]

Destination/route number.

I'm not sure they're needed for DDA compliance.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm not sure they're needed for DDA compliance.

Destinations must be compliant and hence LEDs are usually fitted but LEDs per se are not a stipulation

 

[winston270twm]

First Group need to find themselves another new Chairman

http://otp.investis.com/clients/uk/first_group/rns/regulatory-story.aspx?cid=858&newsid=444580

 

[GaryMcEwan]

I feel sorry for Devon & Cornwall and Bristol seeing as they now have the ex Glasgow 329XX Trident bombs. Why on earth they are still being used is an absolute mystery to me...