First Group: General Discussion

[Sandy Drew]

The half yearly results presentation stated that the Portfolio repositioning in UK Bus was now complete.

No shocks,
All generally sounds pretty positive and heading in the right direction, there is a long, long way to go though......
Can't see any mention of any further disposals in UK bus, but note that they quote that Scotland is still hard going due to economic conditions

 

[winston270twm]

The half yearly results presentation stated that the Portfolio repositioning in UK Bus was now complete.

Thanks, haven't had chance to listen to the presentation yet.

The stock market see's the results as positive, shares are currently up nearly 3% to just under 120p again

 

[overthewater]

Share Price, ended at 122.90 (+5.86%) So overall in the right direction. I think first are in a rock and a hard place with parts of Scotland, which will only get sorted once and for all around the time of the Scotrail announcement.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-through-transformation-as-losses-narrow.html

I think the telegraph don't have scooby...

Audio report:
http://www.firstgroup.com/assets/media/investors/FirstGroup_2014_H1_audio_051113_FINAL.mp3
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Tim keep pointing out the fare cuts are not wholescale, You would think people would get this point that single and returns have not been cut but the Weeklys have.

It seems 900 new buses are coming in next year.
ALL depots have had the depot transformations.

Glasgow has not EVEN had 6 full months yet and it changes were heading into the Summer holidays 4 weeks later.

 

[Surreyman]

Share Price, ended at 122.90 (+5.86%) So overall in the right direction. I think first are in a rock and a hard place with parts of Scotland, which will only get sorted once and for all around the time of the Scotrail announcement.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-through-transformation-as-losses-narrow.html

I think the telegraph don't have scooby...

Audio report:
http://www.firstgroup.com/assets/media/investors/FirstGroup_2014_H1_audio_051113_FINAL.mp3
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Tim keep pointing out the fare cuts are not wholescale, You would think people would get this point that single and returns have not been cut but the Weeklys have.

It seems 900 new buses are coming in next year.
ALL depots have had the depot transformations.

Glasgow has not EVEN had 6 full months yet and it changes were heading into the Summer holidays 4 weeks later.

Can anyone explain (Briefly) what the 'Depot Transformation' is about/consists of?

 

[Volvodart]

http://www.scotsman.com/business/firstgroup-remain-committed-to-scots-bus-market-1-3175802

FirstGroup ‘remain committed to Scots bus market’

by GARETH MACKIE

Updated on the06 November
2013
18:43


Published 06/11/2013 07:32

FIRSTGROUP boss Tim O’Toole has said the transport giant remained committed to the Scottish bus market after unveiling a slump in passenger numbers.


Speaking after the Aberdeen-based group unveiled narrower losses for the first half of the year, First’s chief executive admitted that Glasgow in particular was suffering from “the broader phenomenon” of high numbers of economically inactive households.

But he vowed that FirstGroup would continue “to show good faith”, stressing “we remain committed to the market”.

“We have to be an important part of the community, because transport is an enabler,” added O’Toole.

Scottish bus volumes outside the group’s home city were down by an average of 3 to 4 per cent during the six months to the end of September. This was in contrast to the division’s UK-wide performance, with 0.7 per cent growth in passenger numbers marking the first rise in volumes in five years.

First – which was forced into a deeply-discounted £615 million rights issue in May – is attempting to revive its struggling UK bus business by tailoring fares and networks to local market conditions.

O’Toole said there were early signs of progress, but added that “we know we have a lot of work left to do”.

The group as a whole – with operations spanning UK bus and rail franchises, plus school bus and long-distance coach services in the US – posted a pre-tax loss of £8m for the first half, down from £20.6m during the same period a year earlier.

Continuing problems at its UK bus arm and Greyhound, the company’s North American coach business, were partially offset by higher profits from the UK rail division and First Student yellow school buses. Group revenues were 1.6 per cent higher at £3.3 billion.

Analysts said the results were in line with expectations, but added that the turn-around strategy was in its early stages.

Martin Brown of Shore Capital said this was particularly evident in the UK bus business, despite the improvement in “lost mileage” due to break-downs and service delays.

“It is clearly too early to judge the progress being made through the transformation programme,” Brown said. “However, we would draw investors’ attention to the fact that lost mileage is down by a quarter in those depots furthest along the process.”

UK bus revenues fell 14 per cent to £490.7m, with most of that reduction attributed to the sale of its London bus business. Rail operations – which encompass ScotRail, Great Western, TransPennine Express, Hull Trains and Capital Connect routes – enjoyed a 3.6 per cent rise in passenger volumes and a 5.7 per cent increase in revenues.

O’Toole said there were “big plans” for the ScotRail service, which will be outlined in detail when the company tenders to retain the franchise. FirstGroup currently holds the right to run those operations through to the end of March 2015.

The group has scrapped its interim dividend, but outgoing chairman Martin Gilbert said First still expects to pay a final dividend at the end of the financial year.

The interim payment was axed in conjunction with the rights issue which the firm launched to stave off a downgrade to its credit rating.

Gilbert also announced at that time that he would step down as soon as a replacement can be found, a process that O’Toole said was “well down the way”

http://www.heraldscotland.com/business/company-news/firstgroup-woes-continue-at-scottish-bus-operations.22626174

FirstGroup woes continue at Scottish bus operations

Tim Sharp

City Editor.

Thursday 7 November 2013

BUS operations in FirstGroup's Scottish heartland are continuing to be hit by poor economic conditions, even as its turnaround plan begins to pay off elsewhere.

The Aberdeen-based transport company reported its first increase in UK bus passenger volumes for at least five years as underlying pre-tax profit for the six months to September 30 accelerated 43.7% to £28.3 million, on revenues that were up 1.6% at £3.3 billion.

But it said that in Glasgow economic conditions remained "tough" while it was also "under pressure" in the east of Scotland, leading to a fall of up to 4% in passenger journeys on its services north of the Border, despite a strong performance in Aberdeen.

FirstGroup, which earlier this year tapped up investors for £615m to steady its finances, overhauled its Glasgow bus routes in May but said the state of the economy had left it with "further work to do" in the city.

The company noted that the percentage of economically active people in Glasgow had fallen by around 5% in the past 18 months even as the UK as a whole had seen a slight improvement.

Chief executive Tim O'Toole said of its operations in Glasgow: "It is a tough environment"

Asked if its issues in the city could lead to further bus route reductions, Mr O'Toole said: "We are determined to put out a good service that is valued by the community.

"Glasgow has traditionally been good business territory. We know it will come back.

"We have to show some faith here in delivering a good service."

He said the company was seeing encouraging volumes on city centre routes in Glasgow where it had made significant changes.

Earlier this month, Fiona Kerr, FirstGroup's Scottish finance director, was appointed as managing director of First Glasgow.

In the east of Scotland, its operations are also under "considerable pressure". Aberdeen, however, had been stronger, Mr O'Toole said.

The result was total passenger volumes in Scotland "somewhere between 3% and 4% down" on last year.

The company told investors: "Scotland remains a challenging market overall, with retail footfall for example down by as much as 5% in recent months compared to last year."

UK-wide, FirstGroup's bus division reported volume growth of 0.7% in the period, with like-for-like passenger revenues up 1.7%.

This was the first growth in passenger numbers since 2007/8, the company said. Nevertheless profits at the division fell to £17.3m from £21m for the same period last year.

FirstGroup said the volume rises were a platform for further growth in passenger numbers and pricing.

In its UK rail business operating profits rose 37.8% to £32.8m on like-for-like passenger revenue growth of 5.7%.

Underlying passenger volume growth rose by 3.6%.

FirstGroup has been shortlisted for a number of franchises, including for the next ScotRail deal, a line it currently operates and the new 15-year Caledonian Sleeper franchise, both of which will be awarded by the Scottish Government next year.

The group said it was also interested in bidding for the currently state-run East Coast Mainline.

Its current woes came about after it was awarded, and then stripped of the West Coast franchise last year, following flaws in the bidding process.

On a statutory basis, FirstGroup posted an £8m loss for the period after incurring £7m in costs bidding for franchises, including ScotRail.

It also made losses on property sales, took a £25.9m charge relating to a reassessment of contracts in its US school bus arm, and a £17m charge on derivatives after paying off US dollar debt from the proceeds of its rights issue.

Mr O'Toole said: "The bottom line is that we saw a steady performance."

FirstGroup is investing £1.6bn over four years to boost its businesses.

FirstGroup's chairman, Martin Gilbert, who is also chief executive of Aberdeen Asset Management, announced in May that he was stepping down.

He said yesterday that the process to find his successor was underway and making progress.

Ged Zonneveld, analyst at Panmure Gordon, said: "We recognise the attractiveness of the company's key businesses in the UK and North America, but also believe the road to margin recovery is likely to be a lengthy (and potentially rocky) one."

Analysts at Investec said that they were "keeping faith" in FirstGroup's turnaround plans "but believe that patience will be needed".

FirstGroup shares closed up 6.8p or 5.9% at 122.9p.

 

[overthewater]

In the east of Scotland, its operations are also under "considerable pressure". That the only line we get First Scotland east? That is not a good sign, does first have hope this area will bounce back aswell? This would mean come 4 weeks time once the company house gets those reports I don't expect the company to be out of the red

 

[winston270twm]

Can anyone explain (Briefly) what the 'Depot Transformation' is about/consists of?

I'm not 100% sure, but I was under the impression that the depot transformations were more about reducing costs / using resources more efficiently / improving punctuality & reducing lost mileage.

It's noticeable that some areas are rapidly rolling out the new livery, while others repaint programs appear to have halted. Worcester & Leicester are two, I appreciate First are concentrating on improving the large core operations first, but smaller quantities of buses should still be repainted as part of their standard repaint cycle.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In the east of Scotland, its operations are also under "considerable pressure". That the only line we get First Scotland east? That is not a good sign, does first have hope this area will bounce back aswell? This would mean come 4 weeks time once the company house gets those reports I don't expect the company to be out of the red

Do the companies house interim accounts actually break the numbers down in to specific operations? I was under the impression that they would be the same versions as issued to the stock market?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm not 100% sure, but I was under the impression that the depot transformations were more about reducing costs / using resources more efficiently / improving punctuality & reducing lost mileage.

It's noticeable that some areas are rapidly rolling out the new livery, while others repaint programs appear to have halted. Worcester & Leicester are two, I appreciate First are concentrating on improving the large core operations first, but smaller quantities of buses should still be repainted as part of their standard repaint cycle.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Do the companies house interim accounts actually break the numbers down in to specific operations? I was under the impression that they would be the same versions as issued to the stock market?

About improving vehicle maintenance and availability so that lost mileage is minimised, and to improve vehicle presentation and quality. There is a management training programme associated with this, I believe

In addition, I'm not certain what OTW is on about or why. First have clearly said that Scotland is proving difficult because of the economic climate and the impact that is having.

They've mentioned Glasgow (challenging) and Aberdeen (encouraging) but not FSE? Why would they? And why interpret that as a bad sign?

Remember, the target audience are institutional investors who want to know in broad terms how the business is doing. They're not people going on message boards talking about bags of vomit or worrying about specific depots etc

In short, the likelihood is that the business turnaround will need to continue but Scotland remains a challenge. More importantly is the statement that the resetting of the UK bus portfolio is complete

 

[winston270twm]

About improving vehicle maintenance and availability so that lost mileage is minimised, and to improve vehicle presentation and quality. There is a management training programme associated with this, I believe

In addition, I'm not certain what OTW is on about or why. First have clearly said that Scotland is proving difficult because of the economic climate and the impact that is having.

They've mentioned Glasgow (challenging) and Aberdeen (encouraging) but not FSE? Why would they? And why interpret that as a bad sign?

Remember, the target audience are institutional investors who want to know in broad terms how the business is doing. They're not people going on message boards talking about bags of vomit or worrying about specific depots etc

In short, the likelihood is that the business turnaround will need to continue but Scotland remains a challenge. More importantly is the statement that the resetting of the UK bus portfolio is complete

UK bus results are showing positive signs, but it seems some areas will bounce back quicker than others. Scotland does seem to be more of a issue due to economic conditions. Now London has gone I'm assuming Scotland now accounts for circa 25 - 30% of First UK bus fleet

It's much harder to compare past & present figures across the division now First have adopted the IAS 19 accounting
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
FGP shares still struggling to break the 125p resistance

 

[overthewater]

I think 20% but that's pushing it. Here the question why is first only one having trouble in Scotland?

 

[Volvodart]

I make Scotland about 22.5% on turnover for 2012 if you exclude London*. A rough fleet percentage calculation comes to about 23% also, but I may have excluded too much for London, as I think that might include Berkshire for instance in the fleet numbers.

* Turnover for 2012 will include the turnover for disposals made in 2012 apart from London which I have excluded, so it is a rough calculation.

 

[winston270twm]

I make Scotland about 22.5% on turnover for 2012 if you exclude London*. A rough fleet percentage calculation comes to about 23% also, but I may have excluded too much for London, as I think that might include Berkshire for instance in the fleet numbers.

* Turnover for 2012 will include the turnover for disposals made in 2012 apart from London which I have excluded, so it is a rough calculation.

I was working on the remaining First UK bus fleet being around 6000 vehicles & Scotland been around 1500 vehicles, not based on accurate figures which sounds as though I'm a bit out!

I haven't managed to listen to the presentation yet as can't get the sound to work, are the 900 new buses all due during 2014/15 financial year?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think 20% but that's pushing it. Here the question why is first only one having trouble in Scotland?

Well, you could argue that Stagecoach have problems with Orkney?

In truth, there's probably two main strands. One has been done to death in terms of service reliability, investment etc so no point going over old ground

Then there are more localised issues such as competition (not helped by the above) where First are competing with firms of dubious heritage and legality. Put on top of that issues of unemployment or deprivation locally. Then the local impact of management.

First are not the only firm to have these issues. Two of the best performing Stagecoach firms are in the North East....where Arriva can't make their services pay.

 

[Volvodart]

I have read the transcript and it says that next year's order will be similar to this year's 464.

 

[overthewater]

I see where I went wrong. The order for next year needs to have around 100 new Double Deckers, I hope. Of course Turnover is pretty high for Scottish operations, just very little profit. This is thing with Glasgow First can just leave it alone since its not gown downwards.

I just want First had some idea what to do, but at least someone made this comment

Chris Surch: I think the key for us is that we’re still in very early days on UK Bus. There’s still an awful lot to do, when you look at the overall programme.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I see where I went wrong. The order for next year needs to have around 100 new Double Deckers, I hope. Of course Turnover is pretty high for Scottish operations, just very little profit. This is thing with Glasgow First can just leave it alone since its not gown downwards.

I just want First had some idea what to do, but at least someone made this comment

Chris Surch: I think the key for us is that we’re still in very early days on UK Bus. There’s still an awful lot to do, when you look at the overall programme.

I'm sure that First DO have an idea of what they're going to do. They're just not going to go into that sort of detail in an interim results announcement.

 

[overthewater]

I'm sure that First DO have an idea of what they're going to do. They're just not going to go into that sort of detail in an interim results announcement.

I have sent in a couple of letter to Head offices and reply was pretty clear, and apologetic.

With Glasgow First were hopping this would solve the trouble, it hasn't so its back to square one. Thankful there is better buses and a better network in place. We still dont know which part of First Glasgow is losing the money.

 

[Surreyman]

I Listened all the way through the audio presentation and one interesting item was the high percentage number of new, replacement management at Uk bus.
Clearly it's not in Firsts commercial interests to detail too much about where they are making losses/most profit etc.

It seems to me that the 2 areas to watch in the immediate future are
East Scotland and Plymouth.
One message that does come across from the Audio was the stress on First only being 'part of the way there', more time needed etc.

 

[winston270twm]

First are not the only firm to have these issues. Two of the best performing Stagecoach firms are in the North East....where Arriva can't make their services pay.

Originally when WMT acquired North East Bus Group weren't they quite profitable/earning higher than average margins considering they operated an elderly fleetl?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have read the transcript and it says that next year's order will be similar to this year's 464.

Thanks for that!

That's more like it based on a 12/13 year vehicle life
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I Listened all the way through the audio presentation and one interesting item was the high percentage number of new, replacement management at Uk bus.
Clearly it's not in Firsts commercial interests to detail too much about where they are making losses/most profit etc.

It seems to me that the 2 areas to watch in the immediate future are
East Scotland and Plymouth.
One message that does come across from the Audio was the stress on First only being 'part of the way there', more time needed etc.

At least with Plymouth, First do now seem to be putting up a fight against Citybus's new routes, the new fleet colours are being rolled out much quicker, but still not any sign of any new vehicle investment

I'm sure I saw that it would take 2-3 years to get First Student up to double digit margins. I would UK bus may be similar, some areas may bounce back quicker than others, but it is going to take years to undo the damage/practices of the previous management......

 

[Volvodart]

I have sent in a couple of letter to Head offices and reply was pretty clear, and apologetic.

With Glasgow First were hopping this would solve the trouble, it hasn't so its back to square one. Thankful there is better buses and a better network in place. We still dont know which part of First Glasgow is losing the money.

A good part at least of the hoped for margin improvement will come from the depot transformation. It is difficult to know how far they are on with the cost reductions side although both Glasgow and FSE have closed depots in the past year which will have improved things to a certain extent.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Originally when WMT acquired North East Bus Group weren't they quite profitable/earning higher than average margins considering they operated an elderly fleetl?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Thanks for that!

That's more like it based on a 12/13 year vehicle life
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


At least with Plymouth, First do now seem to be putting up a fight against Citybus's new routes, the new fleet colours are being rolled out much quicker, but still not any sign of any new vehicle investment

I'm sure I saw that it would take 2-3 years to get First Student up to double digit margins. I would UK bus may be similar, some areas may bounce back quicker than others, but it is going to take years to undo the damage/practices of the previous management......

As I keep saying, the years of damaging practices will take longer to put right than they took originally. I think the markets understand that and are prepared to give them time. What gets more irritating are the armchair managers on various websites and their impatience that it all hasn't been put right in two years. It was never going to be and whilst the first fruits are now coming through, wait for another 2/3 years to see how successful they really have been.

On a tangent, yes North East Bus was profitable and yes, the elderly fleet did have a factor in this due to both the lack of depreciation but also the number of Bristol LHs still operated (15 mpg and relatively low maintenance costs) though the fleet replacment with Deltas and Vectas had already started, and they had Prismas and Metroriders on order.

However, WMT came in and slashed vehicle maintenance spend and spare vehicle provision and that had a negative impact on service reliability as well as culling the last LHs with older Nationals etc. Then Cowie bought them shortly before the British Bus deal and the rot set in. The MD was ex Northumbria and really neglected the southern portion of the company. After new vehicles in the 1998-2000 period, there was hardly anything until 2007 so a very aged fleet requiring a lot of surgery.

Also, they closed a lot of depots in the 2005-2010 period so lots of dead mileage, and complex interworking meant loss of service reliability. Sort of a mini-First!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have sent in a couple of letter to Head offices and reply was pretty clear, and apologetic.

With Glasgow First were hopping this would solve the trouble, it hasn't so its back to square one. Thankful there is better buses and a better network in place. We still dont know which part of First Glasgow is losing the money.

Firstly, why would they do anything than send a member of the public anything other than a nice, apologetic reply? Were you expecting F**k Off? Were you expecting a full financial breakdown?

Secondly, they're not willing to disclose where they are losing money. Why would they? It's commercially confidential.

Also, whilst they've done SimpliCity, and some things haven't worked and have been tweaked, they haven't gone back to square one. They haven't just restored the old network but have made some changes to improve things. However, the macro-economics are proving difficult.

 

[overthewater]

Firstly, why would they do anything than send a member of the public anything other than a nice, apologetic reply? Were you expecting F**k Off? Were you expecting a full financial breakdown?

I think your gotten a bit disgruntled about my post, but I can understand why you are getting a bit irritated.

I'm not after the full financial breakdown, company house helps in that department, (the next round of paper work is due in a few weeks)

I do understand that 15 years of bad management from Aberdeen will never be sorted overnight, and you have to feel sorry for everyone in the company, from top to bottom.

But a clear vision would be nice for the whole of first group. What is not helping is Scotrail and the controlled routes. I would bet money nothing is going to get sorted with FSE until the outcome of that rail franchise is known. I do believe this is whats causing the delays, it just seems like "steady as she goes" for 18 more months. The near daily breakdown etc are not helping either....

Also, whilst they've done SimpliCity, and some things haven't worked and have been tweaked, they haven't gone back to square one. They haven't just restored the old network but have made some changes to improve things. However, the macro-economics are proving difficult.

I did Say "Thankful there is better buses and a better network in place" but it is back to square one, since First believe this would solve some issues.

First were never going to bring back the old network, but first has mist something else which needs to be looked at.

macro-economics proving difficult,

From 2001;

Since 1998, the unemployment rate in Glasgow has been around 19% higher than the rate across Scotland and about 47% above the rate seen across Great Britain. Around 18% of all registered unemployed in Scotland lived in Glasgow, compared to Glasgow's population share of around 12%.

I have some doubt about the macro economics, its not much difference from years ago.

I wonder what causing all the congestion, and why people of Glasgow are not coming back to First bus services?

 

[GaryMcEwan]

I think your gotten a bit disgruntled about my post, but I can understand why you are getting a bit irritated.

I'm not after the full financial breakdown, company house helps in that department, (the next round of paper work is due in a few weeks)

I do understand that 15 years of bad management from Aberdeen will never be sorted overnight, and you have to feel sorry for everyone in the company, from top to bottom.

But a clear vision would be nice for the whole of first group. What is not helping is Scotrail and the controlled routes. I would bet money nothing is going to get sorted with FSE until the outcome of that rail franchise is known. I do believe this is whats causing the delays it just seems like "steady as she goes" for 18 more months. The near daily breakdown etc are not helping either....




I did Say "Thankful there is better buses and a better network in place" but it is back to square one, since First believe this would solve some issues.

First were never going to bring back the old network, but first has mist something else which needs to be looked at.

macro-economics proving difficult,

From 2001;


I have some doubt about the macro economics, it not much difference from years ago.

I wonder what causing all the congestion, and why people of Glasgow are not coming back to First bus services?

Where I stay in Glasgow (Easterhouse), First and Stagecoach are the two operators that operate to the city centre. However, the condition of the two companies buses are like chalk and cheese.

First send out all manner of wrecks and toilet boxes from their Larkfield depot for service 38, usually its a Gemini or President deckers, but now more frequently its L94 Scania's that are on the route as well. Also it takes the best part of an hour to get from Easterhouse to the City Centre.

Stagecoach on the other hand, all they run is MAN ALX300's on their X19 service and more frequently Volvo B7 Plaxton Profiles, and because Stagecoach goes along the motorway, it only takes 15-20 minutes to get into the City Centre.

And 9 times out of 10, its the Stagecoach X19 that's usually busier, not only because its quicker, its actually cheaper than First as well.

 

[Polo Mint]

Hasn't Glasgow had a sizeable re-fleeting programme and a network review and its still challenging? Hopefully its just taking a bit more time and the whole initiative hasn't failed.

 

[Sandy Drew]

In terms of profitability it's the Glasgow No2 (the old Kelvin) business that's been the problem. But then it was for years - even before First got involved!

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Hasn't Glasgow had a sizeable re-fleeting programme and a network review and its still challenging? Hopefully its just taking a bit more time and the whole initiative hasn't failed.

Parkhead got some new E300's and some ex London 53 plated Tridents, and Scotstoun has been flooded with newer E300's.

However, I do think they need to get more deckers in to cope with some routes that are just absolutely jam packed.

 

[overthewater]

New deckers are suppose to appear next year for the games, around 100.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think your gotten a bit disgruntled about my post, but I can understand why you are getting a bit irritated.

I'm not after the full financial breakdown, company house helps in that department, (the next round of paper work is due in a few weeks)

I do understand that 15 years of bad management from Aberdeen will never be sorted overnight, and you have to feel sorry for everyone in the company, from top to bottom.

But a clear vision would be nice for the whole of first group. What is not helping is Scotrail and the controlled routes. I would bet money nothing is going to get sorted with FSE until the outcome of that rail franchise is known. I do believe this is whats causing the delays, it just seems like "steady as she goes" for 18 more months. The near daily breakdown etc are not helping either....




I did Say "Thankful there is better buses and a better network in place" but it is back to square one, since First believe this would solve some issues.

First were never going to bring back the old network, but first has mist something else which needs to be looked at.

macro-economics proving difficult,

From 2001;


I have some doubt about the macro economics, its not much difference from years ago.

I wonder what causing all the congestion, and why people of Glasgow are not coming back to First bus services?

I'm not disgruntled or irritated but just being direct. You're wondering why no mention of what they're doing in the interim results and then drawing spurious conclusions. They just aren't going to go into that sort of detail so it's not a sign, good or bad.

I appreciate that you like to speculate and the lack of clear evidence coming from FSE is frustrating for you. However, you don't work for First (I assume?) so don't know what is being communicated or not, nor are you in the inner sanctum of Larbert. I'm sure they have a plan but perhaps don't wish to publicise it. I'm assuming that in the short term, it'll be more cascades before some new vehicles appear; perhaps tied in with CG work next year.

I disagreed with your back to square one comment, and you've admitted that they're not going back to the old network so it isn't back to square one. They've made changes, some weren't successful so they're making some further changes and tweaks. It happens when you do a big network overhaul....happened in both Portsmouth and Southampton. There are no guarantees when you make large fundamental changes, and the worst thing you can do is not to admit when you get it wrong; at least First put their hands up.

 

[tbtc]

'scuse my ignorance, but what revisions did First make in/around Glasgow since the big changes in the summer?

 

[winston270twm]

As I keep saying, the years of damaging practices will take longer to put right than they took originally. I think the markets understand that and are prepared to give them time. What gets more irritating are the armchair managers on various websites and their impatience that it all hasn't been put right in two years. It was never going to be and whilst the first fruits are now coming through, wait for another 2/3 years to see how successful they really have been.

On a tangent, yes North East Bus was profitable and yes, the elderly fleet did have a factor in this due to both the lack of depreciation but also the number of Bristol LHs still operated (15 mpg and relatively low maintenance costs) though the fleet replacment with Deltas and Vectas had already started, and they had Prismas and Metroriders on order.

However, WMT came in and slashed vehicle maintenance spend and spare vehicle provision and that had a negative impact on service reliability as well as culling the last LHs with older Nationals etc. Then Cowie bought them shortly before the British Bus deal and the rot set in. The MD was ex Northumbria and really neglected the southern portion of the company. After new vehicles in the 1998-2000 period, there was hardly anything until 2007 so a very aged fleet requiring a lot of surgery.

Also, they closed a lot of depots in the 2005-2010 period so lots of dead mileage, and complex interworking meant loss of service reliability. Sort of a mini-First!!

Although WMT brought in older Nationals than the LH's they were replacing, they were all re-engined with DAF & Volvo units