First Group: General Discussion

[Deerfold]

That's fine if you are the kind of person who reads press releases.

Or newspapers.

For local titles a press release from a local transport company is a nice easy filler.

 

[34D]

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/leicester/travel_news/news_initiatives/?item=12871&conf=0Our depots will be grouped into two smaller, stronger business units " Midlands business unit consisting of Leicester, Wyvern and Potteries and East England business unit consisting of Norfolk, Suffolk and Essex

What about Berkshire?

 

[overthewater]

What about Berkshire?

Is that not operated from Southampton?

 

[pompeyfan]

Is that not operated from Southampton?

Indeed it's operated by Hampshire and Dorset from empress road. I don't quite understand how Essex area is classed as south east, but Portsmouth is south west? Surely a better title would be eastern counties? With Hampshire coming under south/south central?

 

[overthewater]

I take it no other areas will be spilt up? I can't see Scotland or Yorkshire getting said treatment.

 

[winston270twm]

http://www.route-one.net/issues/503/index.html#/10/

According to the latest RouteOne & the TAS industry performance report for 2013

Wellglade subsidiary Kinchbus earnt the highest margins in the UK at 22.6%

7 out of the top 10 highest earners were Stagecoach subsidiaries

FWY was in 10th place and earning the highest profit margins within First Group at 18.7% & Bristol in 11th place with an 17.7% margin

First Devon & Cornwall were posting losses of 14.8% prior to the closure of Barnstable

 

[overthewater]

Three other First companies in the red were
* Northampton
* First Edinburgh
* First Glasgow No2

We already know that. It would be nice to know the margins etc. Big Question is what are the profits levels for 2012/2013 for three in question...roll on December....

 

[winston270twm]

Has anyone heard any dates for when First expect to takeover the Finglands business?

First have a new fleet of buses ready & waiting to move in, but all seems to have gone quiet.....

Additionally, Western Greyhound appear to have cancelled a large number of services centered around Penzance which may be contracted services, FDC could possibly pick up some of this work?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Additionally, Western Greyhound appear to have cancelled a large number of services centered around Penzance which may be contracted services, FDC could possibly pick up some of this work?

Could be FDC to benefit if, as mentioned on another thread, WG are closing their Penzance outstation. Also, First do seem to have "sharpened their pencil" on tendering, having won the Helston area stuff last year (as well as other wins around Bristol/Bath).

There was also chatter about First upgrading their Long Rock base nr Penzance from a small running shed to a full depot.

 

[IanXC]

Has anyone heard any dates for when First expect to takeover the Finglands business?

First have a new fleet of buses ready & waiting to move in, but all seems to have gone quiet.....

There is definitely a growing collection of ex Finglands buses turning up at EYMS depots, being repainted and entering service.

 

[RPI]

Share price up to the dizzy heights of £1.23 today!

 

[robertclark125]

Having looked on streetview, the First Devon and Cornwall depot at Long Rock, Penzance (near to but not next to the rail depot) looks a substantial affair, so I can imagine it would be pretty simple to upgrade the depot.

 

[winston270twm]

Share price up to the dizzy heights of £1.23 today!

It now appears to be in a sustained uptrend
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Could be FDC to benefit if, as mentioned on another thread, WG are closing their Penzance outstation. Also, First do seem to have "sharpened their pencil" on tendering, having won the Helston area stuff last year (as well as other wins around Bristol/Bath).

There was also chatter about First upgrading their Long Rock base nr Penzance from a small running shed to a full depot.

Yes saw that about WG closing their Penzance outstation, even if FDC are sharpening their pencil, it is obviously still very difficult to make money in Cornwall. FDC being one of the worst performers within First UK bus

It sounds as though Cornwall Council have pulled the funding early on the WG thread, so FDC may not benefit unless certain routes can be incorporated in to existing commercials services

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It now appears to be in a sustained uptrend
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Yes saw that about WG closing their Penzance outstation, even if FDC are sharpening their pencil, it is obviously still very difficult to make money in Cornwall. FDC being one of the worst performers within First UK bus

It sounds as though Cornwall Council have pulled the funding early on the WG thread, so FDC may not benefit unless certain routes can be incorporated in to existing commercials services

Granted, there will doubtless be further cuts to the tendered services but unless they're doing a Hartlepool (e.g. no tendered services), then there may well be some work on offer. I'm sure that they would welcome some additional work to spread the fixed overhead across.

Cornwall has always been a tough place to make money. That said, so was Cambridgeshire and the Fens yet Stagecoach have done a remarkable job there

 

[winston270twm]

There is definitely a growing collection of ex Finglands buses turning up at EYMS depots, being repainted and entering service.

Hmmmm,

As far as I am aware, First are yet to take over at Finglands and the Volvo/Wright and Wright Streetlites earmarked for that operations may still all be in storage

 

[overthewater]

With more and more london routes being converted to "New Bus for London" ie Borris.

Would it be a wise investment for First to buy a good number of the surplus stock going?
It would help get rid of alot of older stock?

 

[Deerfold]

With more and more london routes being converted to "New Bus for London" ie Borris.

Would it be a wise investment for First to buy a good number of the surplus stock going?
It would help get rid of alot of older stock?

They're on 3 routes so far (11, 24, part 38) with another by the end of this month.

It's going to take 2 years to introduce 600 of them, 7.5% of the London Fleet.

I don't think any operator is going to have a large amount of surplus stock.

 

[overthewater]

Even still, if first were able to take on 100 each year, it would help replace older stock, Might only be five/six years but that got to be a good short term idea while the proper fleet replacement scheme come into practices.

 

[robertclark125]

The thing about that is though, some of the vehicles being replaced may be leased, or belong to some of the big groups already, who may want them for themselves. But, if it can be done, and if First has the cash, then why not.

 

[winston270twm]

Even still, if first were able to take on 100 each year, it would help replace older stock, Might only be five/six years but that got to be a good short term idea while the proper fleet replacement scheme come into practices.

I doubt it would be newer buses that would be released as a result of a route changing over to Borismasters. Any nearly new buses would be cascaded within to release the oldest of buses from London. Plus if any newish buses are available for release from London, Arriva, Go-Ahead & Stagecoach would no doubt transfer them to the provinces to upgrade their own fleets.

 

[overthewater]

I doubt it would be newer buses that would be released as a result of a route changing over to Borismasters. Any nearly new buses would be cascaded within to release the oldest of buses from London. Plus if any newish buses are available for release from London, Arriva, Go-Ahead & Stagecoach would no doubt transfer them to the provinces to upgrade their own fleets.

Remember Stagecoach don;t own any buses, its all leased now, Isn't one of the other companies also leasing all its buses aswell?

Im really on about 10 year buses, like what first did last year, it moved out over 100 "53" plate deckers.

 

[winston270twm]

Remember Stagecoach don;t own any buses, its all leased now, Isn't one of the other companies also leasing all its buses aswell?

Im really on about 10 year buses, like what first did last year, it moved out over 100 "53" plate deckers.

I think Abellio now are. Fair point, but their is nothing to stop the larger groups with provincial fleets to buy them during or at the end of the leasing period.

 

[Deerfold]

Even still, if first were able to take on 100 each year, it would help replace older stock, Might only be five/six years but that got to be a good short term idea while the proper fleet replacement scheme come into practices.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying.

The NBfL is a tiny part of the fleet - less than the normal annual number of new buses introduced in London.

Even with that number having dropped in recent years I don't think the NBfL is going to result in any more cascaded buses then without it - it is just going to make up a significant proportion of the new buses for the next couple of years so the various London bus companies will do whatever they normally do with cascaded buses.

 

[overthewater]

Fron Jeroen Weimar

Announcing our major fare reductions in York following review earlier this year. Great partnership with York Council

Has any other area, Bar FSE, and Cornwall not had a major Fare overhaul?

 

[Jeni]

Has any other area, Bar FSE, and Cornwall not had a major Fare overhaul?

I don't believe Wyvern has, other than dropping the FirstDay down to £6

 

[overthewater]

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/york/travel_news/news_initiatives/?item=13121&conf=0

YORK - Fares in York dropped by up to 25%

Friday 20 September 2013

York Fares
First bus fares are set to be significantly reduced as we look to encourage more people to use the bus.

From Sunday 29 September, the price of week, month and annual tickets are set to be cut by up to 25% - good news for the 12 million people who use First buses in York each year.

The range of single tickets, popular with new and occasional bus users, will also be significantly restructured to ensure greater fairness and transparency and a new minimum £1 short hop fare will be introduced.

Following a widespread public consultation exercise in York this summer, we promised to listen to customer views on how we run our business in York and we're announcing more value for money fares.

We've already carried out a large network review which will come into effect on the same day as the fare changes (29 September).

We've also worked with City of York Council to lower child, young people (16-18 year olds) and student tickets from earlier this month.

City of York Council has welcomed the move to drop the price of adult fares and to simplify single fares - saying our decision is 'excellent news' for bus passengers and fits in with their plans to encourage more people to use buses in York to help tackle road congestion and air pollution.

From Sunday 29 September the following fares will apply on First buses in York:

York FirstWeek reduced to £12.00 (from £16) - a 25% cut and a saving of £4
York FirstMonth reduced to £44 (from £53) - a saving of £9 and now monthly (rather than for four weeks)
York FirstAnnual reduced to £440 (from £583) - a saving of £143
A new minimum single fare of £1 - meaning all York customers have access to a £1 single fare to somewhere in York
York FirstDay prices frozen (£3.70)
Single, day and week tickets can be bought from the driver on board each bus - therefore giving the customer cheap simplicity when considering their travel options.

Ben Gilligan, Managing Director for First in York, said: "These significant fare cuts are great news for York. In the summer we talked extensively to our customers and partners in York and have listened to what they have said to us. Value for money was one of the major points raised and with this range of lower and more attractive fares we are giving both new and existing customers the chance to save money when they use First buses on a regular basis.

"For those customers who plan ahead there are a range of savings to be made on our week, month and annual tickets. We have also looked at our single ticket structure and have offered some new cheaper fares from just £1 and will publish widely for the first time our simplified single fares structure to encourage new bus users to try the bus.

"Along with the planned network changes and the lower fares we recently introduced for children, young people and students, we are aiming to encourage more people to use the bus. We are working closely with the Council on the introduction of new bus priority schemes and the recent closure of Lendal Bridge and now is the ideal time for people in York to give the bus a go."

Councillor Dave Merrett of City of York Council, said: "This is excellent news for all existing and potential new bus customers in York. It demonstrates the benefits of a bus company working in partnership with the Council and the communities that they serve. I applaud this move by First to attempt to stimulate passenger growth on buses in the city."

Pictured are Will Pearson (left), our Area Service Delivery Manager and Councillor Dave Merrett (right) from City of York Council.

 

[Deerfold]

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/york/travel_news/news_initiatives/?item=13121&conf=0

YORK - Fares in York dropped by up to 25%

Friday 20 September 2013

York Fares
First bus fares are set to be significantly reduced as we look to encourage more people to use the bus.

From Sunday 29 September, the price of week, month and annual tickets are set to be cut by up to 25% - good news for the 12 million people who use First buses in York each year.

I don't believe there are 12 million people using First buses in a year! 12 million journeys, sure. If they're all seperate people the bus pass price reductions won't help much...

 

[CatfordCat]

re the idea that First buy buses made surplus by NBfL introduction

I don't think it will work that way.

Routes in London get tendered / bid for on basis of either new buses, or 'existing fleet' buses at the start of contract - the latter doesn't necessarily mean 'the buses on this route now' but buses that have already got a few years' service in.

Each contract lasts 5 - 7 years, so buses already get cascaded within London.

It may be the case that more (non NBFL) routes get awarded on 'existing fleet' buses in the next few years, as the 'new bus' proportion of routes in the next few years may be predominantly NBFL.

The programme of introducing NBFL is dependent partly on the supply of the new buses, and partly on the terms of existing contracts. It is reported elsewhere that one or two routes that had, just before NBFL came along, been awarded new contracts with new buses, would be too expensive for TfL to buy those contracts out at an early stage. Presumably when those routes reach the 5 (or whatever) year mark, they may get NBFL and those buses will probably get cascaded to whatever the operator is bidding for at that time.

Therefore, buses are unlikely to get cascaded out of London / sold off until they have seen out a couple of contracts and be 10+ years old. I can't see a sudden glut of 4-5 year old buses appear on the market as a result of NBFL.

 

[overthewater]

Therefore, buses are unlikely to get cascaded out of London / sold off until they have seen out a couple of contracts and be 10+ years old. I can't see a sudden glut of 4-5 year old buses appear on the market as a result of NBFL.

Yet that is what First cascaded out of London, 10 year old double deckers. I'll be honest who ever refurbished them has done a grand job on them, but in the short term something like this has got to be done. Since First are not buying enough new buses to overhaul the fleets.

Certain Northern companies will be back to square one where yearly fleet replacements take place just to replace end of life buses, X reg replace Y reg, replace 01 etc, but never sorting out the main problem.

 

[Deerfold]

Yet that is what First cascaded out of London, 10 year old double deckers. I'll be honest who ever refurbished them has done a grand job on them, but in the short term something like this has got to be done. Since First are not buying enough new buses to overhaul the fleets.

But there is not a larger number of new buses in London than in the past - it's just that many of the new buses will be NBfL instead of whatever other models. I can see advantages in First getting new or nearly buses from somewhere but it won't be London - I'm not sure what else your "something like this" covers. Indeed, the average fleet age in London is increasing now all the fleet is DDA-compliant.

Certain Northern companies will be back to square one where yearly fleet replacements take place just to replace end of life buses, X reg replace Y reg, replace 01 etc, but never sorting out the main problem.

Yep. Crap ain't it. And if that's all First do then they're going down, slowly or quickly, because that's not the way to attract new passengers.