First Group: General Discussion

[robertclark125]

I'm trying to get a fleetcard and/or fleetlist, and a PVR list for Livingston depot, so we can get an idea of the fleet, and from that, we can then guess a value.

 

[overthewater]

I'm trying to get a fleetcard and/or fleetlist, and a PVR list for Livingston depot, so we can get an idea of the fleet, and from that, we can then guess a value.

Fleet list may will be pointless at the moment, since there is major shortages in the depot and alot of onloan buses, with plenty being kept while other being scraped. It seems the bendys are going into service aswell now.

I try and post an older one with some updates to try and guess everything.

 

[winston270twm]

I'm trying to get a fleetcard and/or fleetlist, and a PVR list for Livingston depot, so we can get an idea of the fleet, and from that, we can then guess a value.

The fleetlist on here may give you a starting point, but Overthewater probably has a more accurate idea....
http://scotbus.com/fleetlists/

Wickipedia gives you an idea/frequency of the routes operated but no Pvrs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_....26_West_Edinburgh_.28From_4_February_2013.29

Not sure where I got it from, but Livingston should have an operational fleet of around 70 buses?

I wouldn't like to hazzard a guess with Livingston Depot, you may have a better idea if you've got the depots turnover & loss figures for a starting point.....

 

[SuffolkRaider]

Hello OTW the blogs for round these here parts are as follows http://norwichbuspage.blogspot.co.uk/ http://andysbusblog.blogspot.co.uk/ http://eastnorfolkbus.blogspot.co.uk/ http://fecx1news.blogspot.co.uk/ I also keep an eye and occasionally comment on ATVBF http://angliaandthamesvalleybusforum.com/ as I like to see whats occuring Yes most of the X1's are up at Lynn but thats the only bit that First have there they sold out the town services to Norfolk Green who are still independent. hope these ok for you

 

[overthewater]

The fleetlist on here may give you a starting point, but Overthewater probably has a more accurate idea....
http://scotbus.com/fleetlists/

Wickipedia gives you an idea/frequency of the routes operated but no Pvrs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_....26_West_Edinburgh_.28From_4_February_2013.29

Not sure where I got it from, but Livingston should have an operational fleet of around 70 buses?

I wouldn't like to hazzard a guess with Livingston Depot, you may have a better idea if you've got the depots turnover & loss figures for a starting point.....

I was told livingston depot was under used by a big margin. I would guess more like 60 buses are in operation, but the depot could coupe with double that figure. Fleet list is only part of the story since there is alot of loan buses in use alas.

Hello OTW the blogs for round these here parts are as follows http://norwichbuspage.blogspot.co.uk/ http://andysbusblog.blogspot.co.uk/ http://eastnorfolkbus.blogspot.co.uk/ http://fecx1news.blogspot.co.uk/ I also keep an eye and occasionally comment on ATVBF http://angliaandthamesvalleybusforum.com/ as I like to see whats occuring Yes most of the X1's are up at Lynn but thats the only bit that First have there they sold out the town services to Norfolk Green who are still independent. hope these ok for you

cheers for them
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I wonder what today will bring? will we see any surprise.....

 

[winston270twm]

I was told livingston depot was under used by a big margin. I would guess more like 60 buses are in operation, but the depot could coupe with double that figure. Fleet list is only part of the story since there is alot of loan buses in use alas.

I wonder what today will bring? will we see any surprise.....

Looking at google earth it does look a fairly big site considering the size of the allocation, if it does get sold off, one way any potential buyer could try and turn the depots fortunes around & at the same time fill the depot could be to make an offer to acquire E&M Horsbrugh's bus business?

 

[Ivo]

I live in Bristol. The prices for single journeys in Bristol are extortionate. I am not talking about prices for day tickets, weekly tickets, monthly tickets etc. but simply for single tickets within Bristol. This is what people complain about when they talk about the high bus prices in Bristol. £2.90 for a single from Temple Meads for a journey that is 2 or 3 miles to, say Whiteladies Road or Cromwell Road, is a rip-off - I challenge you to call that value-for-money! I once got on the bus to be told the price and got off again and walked!

But it's no different to much of the rest of the country. Some places have flat fares, which is fair enough, but most other operators would be expected to charge a similar amount. In the modern era, £3 seems reasonable for a journey of about five miles; whilst the journey you mention is shorter than this, there are three issues that you have not mentioned:

(1) The top of Whiteladies Road is (I believe anyway; I may be wrong) just outside the Central Zone for ticketing purposes, meaning a slightly shorter journey along there should cost less
(2) The journey does take anything up to half an hour subject to City Centre traffic volumes
(3) This is only one example of such a fare...

However, I can tell you that the Zonal system *is* under review. What it also means is that a journey from Temple Meads to somewhere like Bradley Stoke shouldn't cost much more than the price you've quoted.

I'm trying to get a fleetcard and/or fleetlist, and a PVR list for Livingston depot, so we can get an idea of the fleet, and from that, we can then guess a value.

My data from December suggests a permanent allocation of 69 buses, which will probably have changed since then (I'm sure you guys will have a better idea of recent changes), of which 42 are deckers (two step entrance) and 27 are single deck of varying sizes.

 

[Deerfold]

Sorry for only replying to this post now that was made over a week ago - I have just seen it.

I live in Bristol. The prices for single journeys in Bristol are extortionate. I am not talking about prices for day tickets, weekly tickets, monthly tickets etc. but simply for single tickets within Bristol. This is what people complain about when they talk about the high bus prices in Bristol. £2.90 for a single from Temple Meads for a journey that is 2 or 3 miles to, say Whiteladies Road or Cromwell Road, is a rip-off - I challenge you to call that value-for-money! I once got on the bus to be told the price and got off again and walked!

My local bus company is Keighley and District who are generally regarded to have reasonable prices (certainly comapred with their sister companies Burnley and Pendle and Lancashire United).

For a 3.6 mile journey from my house to Sutton in Craven they charge £3.20 single.

An off-peak day ticket valid anywhere on their services is £3.80.

Your £2.90 single may be high, but it's not atypical - if you regard these prices as high in Bristol they're high in much of the country.

 

[Trainfan344]

I have heard rumours that First is to pull out of Norwich.

 

[Deerfold]

I have heard rumours that First is to pull out of Norwich.

Anything to suggest there might be an substance to them?

 

[Trainfan344]

Anything to suggest there might be an substance to them?

The First Norwich branded buses appear to be being de-branded...

 

[winston270twm]

The First Norwich branded buses appear to be being de-branded...

It has been suggested further up this thread that this may be due to the soon to be replaced X1 branded Gemini's moving on to Norwich local work when the Enviro 400's arrive

 

[overthewater]

I dont believe just yet Norwich is on its way out, A few other places come to mind first.

 

[markie73]

I dont believe just yet Norwich is on its way out, A few other places come to mind first.

First Northampton comes to mind, hopefully we will hear shortly as to what will definitely happen to the operation.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Well, here's the source of the rumours. Personally think First are preparing to repaint the fleet. No way are they leaving Norwich, because then there's no point in keeping Yarmouth, Lowestoft and Ipswich as operations.

 

[Ivo]

If Norwich are sold I will eat my hat.

DISCLAIMER: I do not own a hat of any description.

 

[overthewater]

I think its getting beyond a joke now, its getting dragged out and its not making first look good, nor is it helping the share price. First need to get this over and down with, cut all the dead wood and just get on with its core asset. There is few depot which first still control and there just dont care and its clearly on show to all that looks.

 

[ryson357]

Don't think Norwich will be sold off (Not sure tbh). But I thought it was profitable . Plus after good signs on X2! Increasing the frequency from 30 Minutes to 20 Minutes Mondays - Saturdays.

 

[Deerfold]

I think its getting beyond a joke now, its getting dragged out and its not making first look good, nor is it helping the share price. First need to get this over and down with, cut all the dead wood and just get on with its core asset. There is few depot which first still control and there just dont care and its clearly on show to all that looks.

I'd imagine your average punter is completely unaware of any speculation.

 

[overthewater]

I'd imagine your average punter is completely unaware of any speculation.

you might get a shock!

 

[MCW]

not kept in the loop on this cause I was getting bored of it...

anyways, apparently 66967 left Leicester for Refurbishment from what I heard and that it would receive the new livery. Just wondered if anyone can confirm this.

 

[tbtc]

Don't think Norwich will be sold off (Not sure tbh). But I thought it was profitable

If they need to raise money then they are going to have to sell some profitable assets - they won't raise £100m just by "fire sales" of depots that lose money.

And we need to get away from the significance of the new livery - buses need repainting every few years - since the new livery has been around for around a year now, its inevitable that some vehicles will need repainting (regardless of whether the depot is up for sale). A better guide would be "depots getting new buses" (or, not getting any).

 

[overthewater]

If they need to raise money then they are going to have to sell some profitable assets - they won't raise £100m just by "fire sales" of depots that lose money.

And we need to get away from the significance of the new livery - buses need repainting every few years - since the new livery has been around for around a year now, its inevitable that some vehicles will need repainting (regardless of whether the depot is up for sale). A better guide would be "depots getting new buses" (or, not getting any).

Of course there is a number of depots still repainting buses into the old livery....

 

[Jeni]

Well, here's the source of the rumours.

The bus pictured with that post is some sort of weird hybrid of old and new liveries! What are they thinking?!

 

[overthewater]

It seems service changes are planned for 26 may....

 

[A0]

It seems service changes are planned for 26 may....

Anywhere in particular or all of First's operations........?

 

[Ivo]

Anywhere in particular or all of First's operations........?

Eastern Counties; no signs of Norwich yet though

 

[overthewater]

Eastern Counties; no signs of Norwich yet though

X1 is changing in that date.

To be fair Glasgow has big changes on that date along with the closure of cumbernuld depot.

 

[90sWereBetter]

The bus pictured with that post is some sort of weird hybrid of old and new liveries! What are they thinking?!

That's what First's fleet have been like since they launched the colour-coded network in September last year.

 

[WatcherZero]

Perhaps first is saved by the bell so to speak, stong market reaction to the governments franchise extensions and the hefty boost in guarenteed revenue for First Group over the next couple of years. Merrill Lynch say the franchise extensions are worth a 20% increase in the groups share price and the stock price rose 7.5% in response yesterday, the largest rise in four years, though its down 2% today.