First Group: General Discussion

[Ivo]

How the heck can Redditch justify the use of deckers? Granted, they may be ex-London deckers, but they didn't go direct to Redditch; instead, they went to HH (Hadleigh, Essex) first. Although that would at least explain why I didn't see any last time I went home

 

[WatcherZero]

Watcherzero on the Stagecoach Wigan site it mentions a Wiganrider is only Valid upto Orrell Abbey Lakes on the 685 now Stagecoach dont operate a 685 towards Orrell so could this be a future new route to compete with Arrivas 385? The Abbey Lakes Hotel is now a Indian.

685 - Wiganrider valid between Wigan and Orrell, Abbey Lakes Hotel

Also didnt know the Smartcards where not valid on the 113 Monday to Saturday but are valid on Sunday this must be due to Chorley running the route.

Its the border between Greater Manchester and West Lancashire, I presume what their basically saying is the Wiganrider wont be valid outside the county.

Yep looks like a typo by Stagecoach, they actually mean the 695 Wigan-Southport. Is that a joint with Arriva and Stagecoach operating the Wigan-Upholland section?

 

[Tomonthetrain]

You'd be surprised at some of the loadings! They originally had 5 then reduced down to 3 ALX400s then the presidents made them move to Worcester to join the other 2 that left before
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I believe it is all the routes on those 2 maps. Some are duplication of Diamonds network
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Please note I don't work for either company so I am only thinking what is staying based on what I've been told

 

[34D]

Does the whole dash/steering column not adjust as with some of the previous Wright kit? Or was that just a Volvo thing?

Yes it does, but I couldn't get it in a position that I thought was ideal for me.
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All services run by Kidderminster and Redditch are moving I believe. All but a small handfull of Enviro300s are leaving for Worcester, the Lances, Presidents, Citybuses and Darts are remaining at those 2 depots though from what I have read on a fleetlist from another site.

I'd be interested to see this. Are you able to copy/link to it? Or if not, then possibly PM it me?

 

[sonic2009]

http://wmbusphotos.com/diamondpages/fleetlist.html

There's a section here that lists the buses that will transfer to Diamond from First.
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First will still serve Kidderminster and Redditch albeit only on 2 services, they have a contract with Worcester Warriors Rugby Club to provide supporters services on all Warriors home matches on Friday or Saturdays

X18: REDDITCH - RUGBY CLUB
Via Bromsgrove, Droitwich, Blackpole and Three Pears
X19: KIDDERMINSTER - RUGBY CLUB
Via Droitwich, Blackpole and Three Pears

 

[overthewater]

Talk has appeared on twitter. Cumbernauld depot is getting shut on 19 may. No idea. Could this be the other depot that helped caused the loses?

There has been speculation stagecoach might introduce a new service inthe town.

Still waiting on first Edinburgh and northampton.

 

[Volvodart]

Talk has appeared on twitter. Cumbernauld depot is getting shut on 19 may.

I thought the notice period was still 90 days, at present, (as happened at Dalkeith).

 

[overthewater]

I thought the notice period was still 90 days, at present, (as happened at Dalkeith).

Your right but people are getting six from this. Cumbernauld will be smaller. But until larkfields replacement is built I doubt any other depots in the city will have the space.

But will stagecoach start a new service? Or even via north Cumbernauld.

 

[Volvodart]

Your right but people are getting six from this. Cumbernauld will be smaller. But until larkfields replacement is built I doubt any other depots in the city will have the space.

I have since found this from one of the local MSPs:-

"Equally concerning is to hear that the future of the First depot in Carbrain is under review. Despite assurances of no compulsory job losses the potential relocation of this part of the First Glasgow operational infrastructure from the town is unwelcome."

http://www.jamiehepburn.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1513&Itemid=2

 

[overthewater]

It seems first have found a loophole? Moving all the staff while shutting the depot down.

Cumbernauld could not have been that bad for the loses.

 

[ryson357]

First group operate in Weston. With other bus company's. WebberBus and crossville motors. North Somerset council isn't very happy with WebberBus and they could withdraw Weston routes. Since their depot is in Bridgwater. There is a rumour First might takeover Weston?

I looked on Vosa and Crossville motors have withdrawn some routes!

Fair well Kidderminster and Redditch. Loved riding the buses in those days. The next lot is Northampton. Partly Somerset (Taunton and Bridgwater). Not Bristol, Weston super mare, Bath and wells.

 

[markie73]

Fair well Kidderminster and Redditch. Loved riding the buses in those days. The next lot is Northampton. Partly Somerset (Taunton and Bridgwater). Not Bristol, Weston super mare, Bath and wells.

Please correct me if I am wrong but hasn't Taunton and Bridgewater been given the new First Branding? surely if the operation has been earmarked for disposal then First would have not done this?. with regards to Northampton still no official news but in a e-mail I received from First customer services - quote: 'There are no plans for Northampton to receive either our new branding or new buses', surely First cant keep Northampton alive for much longer now can they?.

 

[overthewater]

Please correct me if I am wrong but hasn't Taunton and Bridgewater been given the new First Branding? surely if the operation has been earmarked for disposal then First would have not done this?. with regards to Northampton still no official news but in a e-mail I received from First customer services Northampton will not be getting the new branding and are not receiving new buses....

Talk has been Yeovil could be the depot in somerset which is the one that might disappear, NO idea!!!!

 

[ryson357]

Don't care if Yeovil goes. The Bus station is foul, like Taunton. Only one bus in Taunton is in the new livery 60918. Bridgwater seems to do well since increased the frequency on service 14 Between Bridgwater and cannington only (Four journeys still continue to Watchet. From 24th March.

 

[Ivo]

Talk has been Yeovil could be the depot in somerset which is the one that might disappear, NO idea!!!!

Yeovil has not been an operational part of Somerset & Avon for quite a while - it is grouped with Weymouth and therefore somewhat remote. There is also relatively little in terms of longer-distance traffic to Yeovil; of the routes that do exist, the two most notable routes - the 54 and 377 - come under Somerset & Avon and not Dorset & South Somerset. Further, only the 377 provides a Sunday service.

All of the above supports this theory.
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Does Yeovil actually have a fully-fledged depot, and if yes where is it? Or where was it if it has closed?

 

[KendalKing]

Does Yeovil actually have a fully-fledged depot, and if yes where is it? Or where was it if it has closed?

According to the 2012 First Bus Handbook, there is NO depot at Yeovil, not even an out-station!

 

[robertclark125]

Yeovil depot is shown on a 2011 image on Google streetview at 1 Goldcroft.

 

[swifty]

Reckleford, Yeovil. It's on the main A30, where all the yellow cross hatches are on satellite view. I believe it's more of an outstation of Weymouth these days.

 

[overthewater]

4 weeks left until the end of the Financial year, While First found the remaining £80M or will there hold off for a chance for better offers
=============================================

First in Northampton: and First Leicester
Fleet is only 33 buses, Northampton made approx £50'000 in losses. Leicester figure Is belived to be 4%? SIGN no for the new livery or new buses, there nothing of value in Northampton.

* Betting withdrawn: Northampton to close down,
* 13/8: For the Depot to be sold off or with Leicester
* 2/1: Leicester to be sold off.


First Edinburgh changed
What ever happened to the So called sell off of Stirling, It seems that was a lad of crap! T e Scottish Border has now received all its new buses but the £3'000'000 losses for the past financial year. Livingston is still basket-case with with the continuing vehicle shortages just how many more buses can be sent?

* Livingston: EVENS
* Musselburgh: 4/9
* All depots sold off Bar Border: 20/1
All others withdrawn...


London Depot
Talk of London been sold of to raise the £80M fast is still being banded about,
Could first be planing to sell off its London operations completely? No one has ever said this....... It could bring in £60m fast, add in rest of the crap maybe £20m and bingo we reach £100, and it would also help explain what first strategy was: Cut all non core bus business ie Contracts and loss makers. Stagecoach did this back in the early 00. Of course First wanted to keep London for the Olympics and nothing else?

First might also just go for a Depot by Depot sell off...

* Any London Depot - 5/6
* Everything - 11/10

First Somerset
Apart from northampton is the only company from that list still waiting to be sold off. Some people have questioned this but I did say this maybe the RED Hearing in the list to confuse

* 13/8 Any of the depots: Why has it been cut? but there still talk of something getting the chop in the southwest....

First Cornwall
.... which could also mean Cornwall, with its 9.3% loses over the past Financial year.
I can't understand why the loses are that big Even after gaining new new council work or did first really undercut? and got its sums so very very wong?

* 13/8 Any of the depots

Irish Aircoach Other Details of the current situation read Page 65. Accounts are not good reading, Could first hold tight in a hope Eire will pick up? will there be able to improve the leasing problems?
Or will a buying to found?

* 13/5

First Glasgow No2: CHANGED

PLEASE BE AWARE: Cumbernauld depot is being closed down BUT there is NOT job losses nor any PVP reduction, but a number of routes are being withdrawn and the resources are being transferred within First Glasgow operational area

The company is in the red by 7.3%. But First Glasgow has went for a third option, cut, run but keep all the staff..... Which means there no 90 day notice, there no pay offs and will save the company money. Only depot which is now at risk is Overtown.

* Overtown * 7/2

First Berkshire
The fleet is not as bad as other place but it heading the same way as Wigan, relying more on older 10 year old darts. New stock is suppose to be appearing which should kill off S & T reg buses, with Dart "52" plate from London could be drafted in to replace older X reg darts. Unless someone else knows anything else?

* 7/2 : Sell Off

Doncaster: NEW
AS been pointed out by "TBTC" is relatively independent from the main Rotherham/ Sheffield operations of First SY. Could this be linked to RATP Dev appointing Steve Whiteway" as the new Area Director North?

* 9/2

First York Changed
Why Has First come back in? well If London fails to be sold off where else in the north could fetch a nice penny?

* Withdrawn...


Bolton and Bury depots; NEW
Talk has appeared in which Stagecoach have made offered of £36.2 million for the Bolton and Bury depots. But Arriva have phoned in the OFT, CC for Wigain, would both parties want to waste time?

* 10/1

First Ipswich
Not big depot but after looking at the Fleet list and some of the recent service changes this could be classed as another underdog depot. Alot of P and R reg stock, nothing that stands out as a cash cow bar the park N ride which could be lost. How much will it cost to replace alot of the fleet even with T, X, reg which is also needed else where?

* 10/1 Sell off of close down.

First Aberdeen
Could Aberdeen get sold off to get away from a city with to many problems? Nat Express might be interested its would be close to Dundee...

* 25/1

 

[radamfi]

Bolton and Bury depots; NEW
Talk has appeared in which Stagecoach have made offered of £36.2 million for the Bolton and Bury depots. But Arriva have phoned in the OFT, CC for Wigain, would both parties want to waste time?

* 10/1

Both Wigan and Bluebird takeovers have been cleared.

 

[ivanhoe]

If First need 80 million this year, is debt repayment also required for next year? If so, will First be involved in Buses after 2014?

 

[KendalKing]

Bolton and Bury depots; NEW
Talk has appeared in which Stagecoach have made offered of £36.2 million for the Bolton and Bury depots. But Arriva have phoned in the OFT, CC for Wigain, would both parties want to waste time?

* 10/1

Can't see these depots being sold, as both have large numbers (approx 70%) of buses in the new livery.

 

[radamfi]

First don't NEED to pay off the debt, they make enough money to pay the interest. It is just that First would prefer to reduce the debt level as the high interest payments are currently impacting on profits. They pay over £100 million in dividends per year so if the worst came to the worst they could cancel the dividend, but investors would be very unhappy if they did that, especially as many have bought it for its high yield.

 

[robertclark125]

Overton the only depot at risk? Wrong, as Cumbernauld is to close.

 

[MK Tom]

Maybe Northampton wouldn't have lost £50,000 if they didn't charge more than competing operators, fail to run at evenings thereby losing a lot of return journeys and didn't operate totally dilapidated vehicles. It doesn't take a top grade industry professional to figure out why nobody uses First Northampton services.

 

[overthewater]

Overton the only depot at risk? Wrong, as Cumbernauld is to close.

Hence the reason the only depot now at risk now is Overtown. ( this is has now been change to be made clear, to avoid any confusing)

To be fair to everyone Cumbernauld was taken off the odds table 3 weeks ago, but if it was still available to bet on, no one would win since its a strange mix, where no drivers are losing there jobs and No PVP reductions since there all being transferred to new depots. ( I know there is alot of route being cut)
Its a strange one as it will save lots of money while first will not have to spend anything to archive this. Unlike Dalkieth where 90 day notice had to take place and job losses, and buses being taken out of service etc.

 

[markie73]

Maybe Northampton wouldn't have lost £50,000 if they didn't charge more than competing operators, fail to run at evenings thereby losing a lot of return journeys and didn't operate totally dilapidated vehicles. It doesn't take a top grade industry professional to figure out why nobody uses First Northampton services.

So another month passes and still NOTHING official announced about their Northampton operation, so I wonder if there is a surprise in the works or they have plans to close as has been rumored/expected? - strange how First are seemingly in no rush to decide the future/fate of their Northampton operation when other depots have been sold or closed quicker.

If I am correct then the last new buses that First Northampton had was the Eclipse's and the Gemini's back in 2005?,

Also does anybody actually know how much First want for their Northampton operation?.

 

[robertclark125]

This might sound stupid, but I wonder if First realises it still owns what's left of Northampton Transport!

 

[overthewater]

It get worse, A First accountant may have released it cheaper to keep First Northampton on the book and pay out £50'000 in losses every year than to close down and and pay for pay off etc...

 

[markie73]

It get worse, A First accountant may have released it cheaper to keep First Northampton on the book and pay out £50'000 in losses every year than to close down and and pay for pay off etc...

Maybe they have decided to keep hold of Northampton and try and turn around a loss maker into a profit maker by introducing new buses to replace the floliners and also give First Northampton the re-branding? - Highly doubtful but you never know!!
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This might sound stupid, but I wonder if First realises it still owns what's left of Northampton Transport!

You are not the only one to say that!, seriously though its very sad to see a once proud municipal operator being reduced to this mess after years of bad decisions and neglect.