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First Group: General Discussion

winston270twm

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I still cant come up with £80M, can anyone firgue out how this can be done? Only 7 weeks left.
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There's not point trying to second guess what First are or aren't plotting to dispose of, very few of the rumours flying around have come try & if they do manage to pull it off it may well be something that hadn't crossed anyone's mind.

First have said that they believe that they can see a way of raising the remaining £80 million before the end of their financial year, however they have also said that they are prepared to wait for the right deal. So end this deadline isn't definite.....
 
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winston270twm

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How much will the refund from the DfT raise for the group?

Its not going to raise anything, as they had to spend it in the first place. It will merely be a bonus that they can get it back. There is still the chance they could take legal action against the Dft, as the decision to take the contract back off First Group wiped 20%+ off the shareprice
 

bluenoxid

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Its not going to raise anything, as they had to spend it in the first place. It will merely be a bonus that they can get it back. There is still the chance they could take legal action against the Dft, as the decision to take the contract back off First Group wiped 20%+ off the shareprice

However, the killer for most businesses is cash flow. An injection of £20 million plus can assist with the balance sheet for a few months.
 

winston270twm

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However, the killer for most businesses is cash flow. An injection of £20 million plus can assist with the balance sheet for a few months.

Yes I agree for small businesses, however in this instance with First Group having a turnover in excess of £6.5 Billion, an injection of £20 million is little over a days turnover, so I highly doubt an injection £20 Million would assist the balance sheet for a few months, it came from groups cash balance in the first place.
 

F Great Eastern

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Odds of Aircoach being sold off look more and more likely.

Saw some of the fleet on Saturday whilst in Dublin and saw that the livery on a number of vehicles is looking very shabby. There's three with absolutely nothing on the front to say the company name, another one that just have the word Aircoach on the side without the company Logo (it's like seeing First without the f), another one saying simply "air", two more that are completely blank on the sides, since they've replaced the panels with the right colour but not put any livery on and two Scania coaches with a normal sized Aircoach word with an Aircoach radar logo about half the size it should be. Even one of the Levante's that has only been there six months is chipping it's paint work already badly.

I spoke to someone who uses them quite often and they told me that there basically hasn't been anything spent on livery application since October and all of the above have been in that state since at least November with more starting to decay as well without any TLC. He told me the problem was that they are now applying all over adverts to the coaches more and more often so when they peel them off the livery in a lot of cases is damaged. Some of the coaches have had so many cycles of advertising added then removed that the livery underneath is destroyed and looks a mess when the advertising period ends.

It's got so bad now that they're putting Aircoach on the LED/DMD displays and then sticking a sign in the window of some of the coaches for the destination rather than actually sorting the livery presentation.

Example:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57250583@N02/7755313076/sizes/k/in/photostream/
 
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winston270twm

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Does anyone know how many news buses are being order by First?

955 were ordered in total for delivery over a 2 year period in March 2011, 460 should have been delivered during 2011/12 including the 200 double deckers that were initially used for the Olympics that are now at Leeds & Manchester, a large proportion of the remaining quantities went to London, whether the full 460 have all arrived or more I'm not totally sure as to which buses delivered to London were included from the 460 due and which may have been added to the orders following tender wins part of the 2012/13 batches. London took delivery of B9TL's (65) & E400's (44) for routes 25, 26 & 30 @ Lea Interchange, the Scania Omnicity double deckers (39) for the 207 & B9TL's (41) @ NP & X for routes 357 & initially used on the 23, but were later cascaded for routes 266 & 295 upon receipt of the 34 new E400H for the 23 + there were various small batches of Enviro 200s delivered during 2011/12. London has since had a further 9 x 62 plate B9TLs (top up route 295) & 32 x E400 for the 23 & 92 so its anyone's guess what is left to come.

First also had took delivery of the 14 x Volvo B5LH/Wright Hybrids for Manchester, 16 for FWY at Leeds & Glasgow had a mix of 33 x E400/E400

http://www.busandcoach.com/newspage.aspx?id=5224&categoryid=0

There should still be a sizeable quantity left to come 400ish?
 

Volvodart

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First have been saying that the 2 year order for 950 buses should be complete by the end of March.
 

winston270twm

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First have been saying that the 2 year order for 950 buses should be complete by the end of March.

Yes of course, in CBW First Group special feature Giles Fearnly was quoted as saying that 2013/14 orders were close to being finalized and the majority would be single deckers

Have 950 buses actually been delivered though? It doesn't seem that high at present even with everything included for London, obviously there are still some being delivered to Glasgow a further new batch of ADL E300's, the majority of the 40 x Streetlites are yet to appear etc
 

overthewater

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Yes of course, in CBW First Group special feature Giles Fearnly was quoted as saying that 2013/14 orders were close to being finalized and the majority would be single deckers

Have 950 buses actually been delivered though? It doesn't seem that high at present even with everything included for London, obviously there are still some being delivered to Glasgow a further new batch of ADL E300's, the majority of the 40 x Streetlites are yet to appear etc

I don't believe the 950 have been delivered but there deadline date is also 7 weeks time.

I think Glasgow next order of E300 are starting to be delivered, before what many claims to be a major service review for April. ( I think that will make it 80 E300 for Glasgow)

Where are the awful Streetlites going? I take it the 2013/2014 order have not been published yet?

Still No sign of the 02 plate darts for First Edinburgh.
 

overthewater

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That must mean quite a lot of buses leaving London (even if not quite "one in one out"). What kind of age are the buses being cascaded away from the capital these days?

Most should be 51, 52 plate. Also I just notice there is only 28 Caetano Nimbus darts ( 2003) are First edinburgh getting them all?
 

Eng274

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Does the whole dash/steering column not adjust as with some of the previous Wright kit? Or was that just a Volvo thing?

I believe it's chassis-dependent, Volvo and Dennis used different dashboards on B7TLs and Tridents respectively on the same bodywork.
 

Lewisham2221

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I believe it's chassis-dependent, Volvo and Dennis used different dashboards on B7TLs and Tridents respectively on the same bodywork.

Yeah I thought that, our Scania/Solar's don't have it, but the Volvo's do. It's pretty nifty though, I would've expected Wright to include it in their own bus design!
 

bb21

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While the Streetlites might be mechanically more superior and have more green credentials, they are horrid things to look at. The proportions all look wrong and the windscreen is a funny shape that is neither one nor the other. Of course I am aware that this is just personal taste.

I don't find that many buses ugly, only mainly the Borismasters, Versas and Streetlites at the moment from the regular out-and-about vehicles on the road.
 

Volvodart

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Does anyone know how many news buses are being order by First?

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/latest_news/?id=009151

FirstGroup Announces £76m Bus Order

Thursday 14 February 2013



FirstGroup, the UK’s leading bus and rail operator, today revealed that its bus division has ordered 464 new vehicles worth £76m for delivery in the 2013/14 financial year. This order will bring First’s investment in new buses to around £240m in three years.


First also confirmed that more than 95% of its 2013/14 manufacture will be in the UK. The bulk of the order will be built by Falkirk based Alexander Dennis Limited (222 vehicles) and Ballymena based Wrightbus (179 vehicles). Volvo Group UK will manage its 37 bus contract from its headquarters in Warwick, while Leeds company Optare will manufacture 18. A further eight vehicles will be ordered, but as yet no decision has been taken as to the manufacturer.


The interior of each vehicle will be laid out to First’s specification which was designed last year following extensive customer research. This seeks to maximise the flexibility for both buggies and wheelchairs whilst providing additional grab rails for all passengers whether seated or standing. All vehicles will be fitted with Wi-Fi so that customers can stay connected whilst on the move.


“Investment in our bus division continues apace,” said Giles Fearnley, Managing Director of First UK Bus.


“We are committed to growing our business and encouraging more people to use our services and to use them more often. These new buses will see our investment reach some £240m in nearly 1500 vehicles over the last three years. This is enabling us to make a step change in the quality of service that we offer.”


He continued: “It’s really important that we provide the very greatest flexibility for those customers using wheelchairs and buggies. Fitting Wi-Fi as standard is also increasingly important for our customers and all the vehicles will have leather or e-leather seating. We are determined to be at the forefront of customer service across the British bus industry.”


Mr Fearnley also said he was delighted that First continues to support British bus manufacturers. “Our manufacturing partners continue to lead the world in terms of quality and value for money. I’m pleased that our tradition of supporting the British transport industry remains strong.”


Colin Robertson, Chief Executive of Alexander Dennis Limited, said: “We are delighted to be supplying almost 50% of FirstGroup’s total new vehicle requirement this year. It is an endorsement of our class-leading products and the business relationship we have grown and nurtured with FirstGroup in recent years, working with them to raise the bar for the whole industry. I am particularly pleased that 142 of the 222 buses we will build for them are ultra-fuel efficient, 14-tonne Enviro300 single decks. These are achieving 9 - 10 mpg, which is best-in-class and provides significant whole life fuel savings versus many vehicles in service today.”


Wright Group Managing Director, Mark Nodder, said: “Wrightbus is thrilled to be awarded this substantial order from FirstGroup. It is a huge endorsement of the development of our StreetLite range of lightweight buses, which proved themselves best in class in every category at fuel trials conducted at Millbrook Proving Grounds under the close scrutiny of FirstGroup’s engineers. We look forward to continuing our close working relationship with First, a partnership which has lasted more than 17 years.”


Ian Downie, Project Director at Volvo Bus, said: “It is fantastic news that our partnership with FirstGroup continues with this new tender award, and in particular, with the repeat order for our complete single deck citybus, the Volvo 7900 hybrid. The continued success of the Volvo B7RLE ensures it is the 18 tonne city bus product of FirstGroup’s’ choice.”


Optare’s Deputy CEO, Glenn Saint, said: “I am very pleased that FirstGroup is putting our Versa model into its fleet and I have no doubt that it will meet, and exceed all their expectations. Versa is a well proven model, renowned for providing the highest standards of passenger and driver comfort, excellent reliability and class-leading fuel efficiency, and I'm sure it will deliver on all of these key points for FirstGroup.”


First’s new buses will be fitted with EURO V engines. The £76m order consists primarily of single decker and midi buses with 42 double deckers. It follows the delivery in 2012 of a very high number of double deckers for First’s Olympic Shuttle services.
 

KendalKing

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While the Streetlites might be mechanically more superior and have more green credentials, they are horrid things to look at. The proportions all look wrong and the windscreen is a funny shape that is neither one nor the other.

The windscreen on the streetlites, are the same as on other current Wrights models.

ADL are also styling all they models with the same style. So that a number body parts, can be inter-changed between models.
 

90019

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The windscreen on the streetlites, are the same as on other current Wrights models.

They're the same style, but they're not actually the same shape.




(The windscreens on our newest Urbans are the same as the older ones)
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While I remember, I've seen quite a few repainted buses around Edinburgh recently, but almost none of them have any branding on them at all.
 

tbtc

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FirstGroup, the UK’s leading bus and rail operator, today revealed that its bus division has ordered 464 new vehicles worth £76m for delivery in the 2013/14 financial year

That's an average cost of £163,793.10 per new vehicle, which made me think that there must be a lot of double deckers, but...

The £76m order consists primarily of single decker and midi buses with 42 double deckers

...but 90% of the order is for single deckers - which makes me think that these buses are either *very* high spec, or the price of new vehicles really has gone up a lot in recent years.

All vehicles will be fitted with Wi-Fi so that customers can stay connected whilst on the move

Good news that this is becoming "standard" (buses are getting better "spec" than local trains), but I hope this isn't the reason for the high cost!
 

winston270twm

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http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/latest_news/?id=009151

FirstGroup Announces £76m Bus Order

Thursday 14 February 2013



FirstGroup, the UK’s leading bus and rail operator, today revealed that its bus division has ordered 464 new vehicles worth £76m for delivery in the 2013/14 financial year. This order will bring First’s investment in new buses to around £240m in three years.


First also confirmed that more than 95% of its 2013/14 manufacture will be in the UK. The bulk of the order will be built by Falkirk based Alexander Dennis Limited (222 vehicles) and Ballymena based Wrightbus (179 vehicles). Volvo Group UK will manage its 37 bus contract from its headquarters in Warwick, while Leeds company Optare will manufacture 18. A further eight vehicles will be ordered, but as yet no decision has been taken as to the manufacturer.


The interior of each vehicle will be laid out to First’s specification which was designed last year following extensive customer research. This seeks to maximise the flexibility for both buggies and wheelchairs whilst providing additional grab rails for all passengers whether seated or standing. All vehicles will be fitted with Wi-Fi so that customers can stay connected whilst on the move.


“Investment in our bus division continues apace,” said Giles Fearnley, Managing Director of First UK Bus.


“We are committed to growing our business and encouraging more people to use our services and to use them more often. These new buses will see our investment reach some £240m in nearly 1500 vehicles over the last three years. This is enabling us to make a step change in the quality of service that we offer.”


He continued: “It’s really important that we provide the very greatest flexibility for those customers using wheelchairs and buggies. Fitting Wi-Fi as standard is also increasingly important for our customers and all the vehicles will have leather or e-leather seating. We are determined to be at the forefront of customer service across the British bus industry.”


Mr Fearnley also said he was delighted that First continues to support British bus manufacturers. “Our manufacturing partners continue to lead the world in terms of quality and value for money. I’m pleased that our tradition of supporting the British transport industry remains strong.”


Colin Robertson, Chief Executive of Alexander Dennis Limited, said: “We are delighted to be supplying almost 50% of FirstGroup’s total new vehicle requirement this year. It is an endorsement of our class-leading products and the business relationship we have grown and nurtured with FirstGroup in recent years, working with them to raise the bar for the whole industry. I am particularly pleased that 142 of the 222 buses we will build for them are ultra-fuel efficient, 14-tonne Enviro300 single decks. These are achieving 9 - 10 mpg, which is best-in-class and provides significant whole life fuel savings versus many vehicles in service today.”


Wright Group Managing Director, Mark Nodder, said: “Wrightbus is thrilled to be awarded this substantial order from FirstGroup. It is a huge endorsement of the development of our StreetLite range of lightweight buses, which proved themselves best in class in every category at fuel trials conducted at Millbrook Proving Grounds under the close scrutiny of FirstGroup’s engineers. We look forward to continuing our close working relationship with First, a partnership which has lasted more than 17 years.”


Ian Downie, Project Director at Volvo Bus, said: “It is fantastic news that our partnership with FirstGroup continues with this new tender award, and in particular, with the repeat order for our complete single deck citybus, the Volvo 7900 hybrid. The continued success of the Volvo B7RLE ensures it is the 18 tonne city bus product of FirstGroup’s’ choice.”


Optare’s Deputy CEO, Glenn Saint, said: “I am very pleased that FirstGroup is putting our Versa model into its fleet and I have no doubt that it will meet, and exceed all their expectations. Versa is a well proven model, renowned for providing the highest standards of passenger and driver comfort, excellent reliability and class-leading fuel efficiency, and I'm sure it will deliver on all of these key points for FirstGroup.”


First’s new buses will be fitted with EURO V engines. The £76m order consists primarily of single decker and midi buses with 42 double deckers. It follows the delivery in 2012 of a very high number of double deckers for First’s Olympic Shuttle services.

When you consider that First has a fleet of approx 8000 vehicles, replacing 464 buses a year will mean a vehicle life of over 17 years based on the current investment levels. It is also doesn't say how many of that order will be for London & how many for the provinces
 

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