First Group: General Discussion

[markie73]

Contrasted with what fare from Stagecoach? All of Northampton's fares are frankly shocking, except Z&S and Meridian. Z&S have discovered the secret of paint though which is more than can be said for Thompson. Err I mean Meridian.

Is that the ex-Thomson Airways crew bus that spends more time parked up with its engine cover open in the Greyfriars Bus Station then it does roaming around Kings Heath????

 

[MK Tom]

Is that the ex-Thomson Airways crew bus that spends more time parked up with its engine cover open in the Greyfriars Bus Station then it does roaming around Kings Heath????

Yeah that's the one. I had to correct someone on Flickr who'd photted it on the 31 and thought it was operated by Thompson. Meridian's other new acquisition was an all-white Dart which is still all-white. They did of course have a Solo and an Excel which carried a kind of livery... but they've mysteriously vanished the last few times I've been in Northy.

What is the Stagecoach single fare in Northy now? And the Uno one for that matter. I know I've been chastised on here for this comparison before but SC do charge 5p more for a single in Rugby than Arriva do in MK, an urban area four times bigger.

 

[markie73]

Yeah that's the one. I had to correct someone on Flickr who'd photted it on the 31 and thought it was operated by Thompson. Meridian's other new acquisition was an all-white Dart which is still all-white. They did of course have a Solo and an Excel which carried a kind of livery... but they've mysteriously vanished the last few times I've been in Northy.

What is the Stagecoach single fare in Northy now? And the Uno one for that matter. I know I've been chastised on here for this comparison before but SC do charge 5p more for a single in Rugby than Arriva do in MK, an urban area four times bigger.

The single fare on BOTH Stagecoach and Uno is still £2.10 for a single....First Northampton £2.20......
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Yeah that's the one. I had to correct someone on Flickr who'd photted it on the 31 and thought it was operated by Thompson. Meridian's other new acquisition was an all-white Dart which is still all-white. They did of course have a Solo and an Excel which carried a kind of livery... but they've mysteriously vanished the last few times I've been in Northy.

What is the Stagecoach single fare in Northy now? And the Uno one for that matter. I know I've been chastised on here for this comparison before but SC do charge 5p more for a single in Rugby than Arriva do in MK, an urban area four times bigger.

Meridian still have a red,white and blue liveried bus on the road in Northampton, is that the Solo that you are on about?, I think that they also used to have a mini-bus/transit type vehicle on the road which I used to see in the Bus Station on its late evening service to Kings Heath during the week on my way home from work.

 

[overthewater]

Was it either of these?

* http://www.flickr.com/photos/21611052@N02/5017320471/
* http://www.flickr.com/photos/wanderer30/5068667935/

 

[MK Tom]

I assumed it was the overgrown van I've seen on the 31 a lot recently, but I can't find a picture of it on Flickr. Both of the above linked haven't been in town for ages.

I've never seen the Solo out in the last few years, but the red, white and blue Excel turned up a few months ago. I photted it back in May - http://www.flickr.com/photos/50337784@N04/7233066776/ - competing successfully with First's 29/30 effectively on half the timetable with sh*te vehicles by simply reducing the fares. LESSON FIRST!!!

 

[markie73]

I assumed it was the overgrown van I've seen on the 31 a lot recently, but I can't find a picture of it on Flickr. Both of the above linked haven't been in town for ages.

I've never seen the Solo out in the last few years, but the red, white and blue Excel turned up a few months ago. I photted it back in May - http://www.flickr.com/photos/50337784@N04/7233066776/ - competing successfully with First's 29/30 effectively on half the timetable with sh*te vehicles by simply reducing the fares. LESSON FIRST!!!

I don't understand why First Northampton have increased their fares when other Firstbus operations in the country have dropped their fares...., seems a bit brainless given the obvious situation that First Northampton are in, First Northampton now have the highest fares in the town compared to other local operators such as Uno and Stagecoach.

 

[ryson357]

Just heard that first are quitting Worcestershire first then next Northampton and Leicester! Approximate 36 vehicles will transfer and 120 staff! Don't know if its agreed but its for 1.5 million!! This is shocking me now! Northampton, Leicester, Worcestershire, Scotland east, north Devon, Wigan, Chester and parts of London. Where next? Somerset?

 

[sonic2009]

Who would Worcester be sold to though?

 

[tbtc]

Just heard

Heard where?

Big difference between the FT and Facebook when it comes to sources

 

[winston270twm]

Who would Worcester be sold to though?

Worcester isn't being sold, only RH & KR are being sold to Rotala. First is retaining HD & WR for now at least. If WR was ever put up for sale I could see NX group being interested, same with Leicester, as both are higher frequency more urban operations that fits with current NX UK bus portfolio
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Just heard that first are quitting Worcestershire first then next Northampton and Leicester! Approximate 36 vehicles will transfer and 120 staff! Don't know if its agreed but its for 1.5 million!! This is shocking me now! Northampton, Leicester, Worcestershire, Scotland east, north Devon, Wigan, Chester and parts of London. Where next? Somerset?

At the end of the day, First are getting more desperate for cash to pay off debt, major shareholders / the city will be increasing the pressure on Tim O'Toole to reduce debt levels ideally without a rights issue

We may still see a surprise sale yet of something unexpected....

 

[robertclark125]

I still think Hull Trains may be the surprise package to be sold. But to who?

 

[tbtc]

We may still see a surprise sale yet of something unexpected....

To raise "£100m" they'll need to sell something big/ attractive. Operations like North Berwick and Northampton are pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things - if First are serious about the sums of money that they need to raise then some of the family silver (a depot in Glasgow or West Yorkshire or Greater Manchester).
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I still think Hull Trains may be the surprise package to be sold. But to who?

I suppose the obvious answer is DB. But then the selling price for Hull Trains may depend on when the new East Coast franchise is awarded.

 

[overthewater]

Were still waiting for First Scotland East and Northampton to get sorted. so you can say there away yet!

I cant See Worcester going ever since if that was the plan there could have clamped redditch on to that.

 

[winston270twm]

I cant See Worcester going ever since if that was the plan there could have clamped redditch on to that.

I still think First should have sold Wyvern as a whole, it would have attracted much more interest from the big groups, the sale price achieved would have valued the RH & KR elements much higher than the sultry £1.5 Million Rotala will be paying. Wyvern isn't a big First operation, so wouldn't impact group turnover/profits to any extent, but would have fetched a decent sale price & made a much bigger contribution to the remaining funds that need to be raised through disposals

The problem with only selling KR & RH, First has broken its network and a number of links between RH - KR - WR will not longer be operated by First, therefore First passengers with First week /month cards have fewer travel options. First are also potentially inviting Red Diamond to have another go at setting up in competition in Worcester again......

 

[overthewater]

first never operated the Wor - Red service did there?

 

[winston270twm]

first never operated the Wor - Red service did there?

I don't think that there is a direct service from Worcs - Redditch, however the 294/295 & 303 all operate Kiddi - Worcs, which I'm assuming are operated by KR & will put Red Diamond back in Worcester

 

[sonic2009]

There is a direct service from Worcester - Redditch Service 350, shared between Dudleys Coaches of Inkberrow and Worcestershire County Council

 

[ryson357]

Worcester and hereford are staying for a bit longer but soon maybe sold

 

[anthony263]

Worcester and hereford are staying for a bit longer but soon maybe sold

I would be betting Stagecoach to try and get First's Hereford depot since they already operate services into Hereford from Brecon, Abergavenny, Cardiff & Gloucester.

Maybe an hourly X4 between Abergevenny & Hereford would be nice instead of 1 bus every 2 hours

 

[overthewater]

Does First have a £500m share offering?

 

[winston270twm]

Does First have a £500m share offering?

There's speculation in the City that First Group may need to raise funds to pay down debt / relieve the pressure on its balance sheet through a £400-600 Million rights issue.

 

[markie73]

Just heard that first are quitting Worcestershire first then next Northampton and Leicester! Approximate 36 vehicles will transfer and 120 staff! Don't know if its agreed but its for 1.5 million!! This is shocking me now! Northampton, Leicester, Worcestershire, Scotland east, north Devon, Wigan, Chester and parts of London. Where next? Somerset?

Is this information definate?, I've heard so many rumors regarding the future of Leicester and Northampton but seen absolutely NOTHING happen!, I hope that a buyer can be found for First Northampton which HOPEFULLY will save the jobs of the staff at the depot.

 

[MK Tom]

Just heard that first are quitting Worcestershire first then next Northampton and Leicester! Approximate 36 vehicles will transfer and 120 staff! Don't know if its agreed but its for 1.5 million!! This is shocking me now! Northampton, Leicester, Worcestershire, Scotland east, north Devon, Wigan, Chester and parts of London. Where next? Somerset?

With respect, a lot of people have 'just heard' things on this thread. If there's a reliable source then great, otherwise just wait for one!!! But I think if there were a reliable source we'd all be saying this. The only reliable source is an official announcement really.

 

[markie73]

With respect, a lot of people have 'just heard' things on this thread. If there's a reliable source then great, otherwise just wait for one!!! But I think if there were a reliable source we'd all be saying this. The only reliable source is an official announcement really.

Let's hope that first will make an announcement sooner rather then later, but it makes me wonder what is being discused behind closed doors with regards to the Northampton operation.

 

[Lewisham2221]

If I had a pound for every time I heard "operator X has just sold to operate Y" I'd be a lot richer. Or fatter.

 

[overthewater]

If that was the case all the odds would be 100/1

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https://twitter.com/passtrans/statu...aign=passtrans&utm_content=296672097973972992

SO where is £80M coming from? Will everything on my list cover that amount?

http://www.passengertransport.co.uk/2013/01/first-seeks-80m-of-bus-disposals-in-two-months/

 

[markie73]

If that was the case all the odds would be 100/1

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https://twitter.com/passtrans/statu...aign=passtrans&utm_content=296672097973972992

SO where is £80M coming from? Will everything on my list cover that amount?

http://www.passengertransport.co.uk/2013/01/first-seeks-80m-of-bus-disposals-in-two-months/

Well, I wonder if First will sell Leicester as rumored and will Northampton be part of the deal or end up getting wound up?, interesting times ahead.

 

[bb21]

If that was the case all the odds would be 100/1

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https://twitter.com/passtrans/statu...aign=passtrans&utm_content=296672097973972992

Is there a Page 2 that we can read?

 

[overthewater]

Look above your post and look at the second link

 

[winston270twm]

It appears First have screwed up again.......

Tfl tender results announced today suggest Stagecoach London have won routes 165 (Pvr 11), 179 (Pvr 10), 252 (Pvr 12) & 365 (Pvr 10) all off First London, which are all currently based at Dagenham depot, therefore Dagenham has now lost half its allocations worth of work.

First should have sold it to Stagecoach while they had the chance....