First Group: General Discussion

[markie73]

How about some odds for the big, valuable operators, which First don't really want to sell? Do the odds include any form of shutdown, for example deregistering all routes in Northampton without a sale like North Devon? I would have thought an actual sale in Northampton would be quite unlikely.

Still no news on Northampton then?, even the driver that I spoke to last week did not know anything although he did mention the Centrebus rumor and possible shutdown.

My own opinion is that the Northampton operation will close as there is still no buyer, I wonder if there will be some sort of announcement before Christmas?

 

[KendalKing]

Wigan's fleet will no doubt change drastically from the date of takeover

When I visited the First depot at Bryn yesterday, it look more like a scrapyard then a bus depot. Hopefully all them buses which are currently in a state of dis-repair, will go for scrap, when Stagecoach finally take-over.

Whats the change over date?

I don't know the exact date, just that is supposed to be late December.

With there being lest buses required over the Christmas period, I am guessing that there will be a lot of vehicle movement then.

 

[overthewater]

Money on 2nd January. New year new company new start. ... out with the old and in with the new

 

[MCW]

* First Leicester 50/1 This Just something about this operations which does not seem right .

In what sense do you mean?

As in not likely to be sold off for XYZ reason or just that first are indecisive as of the moment?

 

[overthewater]

In what sense do you mean?

As in not likely to be sold off for XYZ reason or just that first are indecisive as of the moment?

As it stands with Leicester, nothing is happening with it, there no now overhaul of the routes, no new livery. its another one of those small but could make money depots.

The fleet in Leicester has 110 buses and is completely low floor, that what pushing the odds further up. Money is not really needed to be spent on the place. Basicly it will either out fool at lot of people into think its not safe or Its has nothing really wrong in the eyes of first.

 

[MCW]

As it stands with Leicester, nothing is happening with it, there no now overhaul of the routes, no new livery. its another one of those small but could make money depots.

The fleet in Leicester has 110 buses and is completely low floor, that what pushing the odds further up. Money is not really needed to be spent on the place. Basicly it will either out fool at lot of people into think its not safe or Its has nothing really wrong in the eyes of first.

see what you mean.

However, I heard locally that the new Livery will be coming in shortly as there are to be a few vehicles going for refurbishment in february, however, I have dismissed it as I am a wait and see person when my mind isn't wandering!

 

[radamfi]

Which areas still don't have the new livery?

I was surprised to see 'West of England' being used as the branding in Bristol a few weeks ago, albeit only on one route. To me, that is too generic if the aim is to promote a local identity. This half-hearted approach may indicate that a sale in this part of the country isn't being ruled out.

 

[markie73]

Which areas still don't have the new livery?

I was surprised to see 'West of England' being used as the branding in Bristol a few weeks ago, albeit only on one route. To me, that is too generic if the aim is to promote a local identity. This half-hearted approach may indicate that a sale in this part of the country isn't being ruled out.

Northampton does not have and will not have the new livery as its on the hit list for sale/closure whenever that will be.

 

[tbtc]

Did Wigan/ Chester/ Birkenhead get any buses in the new livery (before the sale was announced)?

 

[MK Tom]

Northampton does not have and will not have the new livery as its on the hit list for sale/closure whenever that will be.

Leicester doesn't either. (plays X-files theme)

 

[markie73]

Leicester doesn't either. (plays X-files theme)

I've got my doubts about Leicester, apparently they too are not getting the new livery........

Its a 115 bus operation which is just about making a profit but could be worth millions if First decided to add it to their hit list....

 

[radamfi]

My own opinion is that the Northampton operation will close as there is still no buyer, I wonder if there will be some sort of announcement before Christmas?

Almost everyone seems to think Northampton will close down without a sale which is why I was curious that the odds for a Northampton sale (not closure) were as short as even money. 100-30 or at least 5-2 would be more realistic IMO.

Taking the other odds at face value would suggest the only other likely sale to be two depots of First Edinburgh. That plus Northampton would barely take First towards their £100 million target.

 

[markie73]

Almost everyone seems to think Northampton will close down without a sale which is why I was curious that the odds for a Northampton sale (not closure) were as short as even money. 100-30 or at least 5-2 would be more realistic IMO.

Taking the other odds at face value would suggest the only other likely sale to be two depots of First Edinburgh. That plus Northampton would barely take First towards their £100 million target.

Northampton is listed by First as Asset Only sale, and given the fact that the fleet is delapidated and they don't own the depot then I would be suprised if they could raise £300k if that for the operation if they managed to sell it.

 

[overthewater]

Some part of First Edinburgh are getting the new livery, Livingston got it because buses from Linlithgow which has now closed have been repainted. The only other buses to be repainted in livingston are citros which could just moved on to another depot. muss has some new livery but again said buses can just be moved to another depot straight away.

Stirling not got any either. I dont believe York has any..

 

[radamfi]

Some part of First Edinburgh are getting the new livery, Livingston got it because buses from Linlithgow which has now closed have been repainted. The only other buses to be repainted in livingston are citros which could just moved on to another depot. muss has some new livery but again said buses can just be moved to another depot straight away.

What branding is used on the buses with the new livery?

 

[Scania3379man]

Did Wigan/ Chester/ Birkenhead get any buses in the new livery (before the sale was announced)?

Wigan get no more repaint on old bus fleet cos stagecoach might get some more bus from the depot and stagecoach's choice, Chester/birkenhead will get more bus from other depot, I dunno. I think Im not sure i might wrong information, TBTC.

HTH,

Martyn
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Wigan get no more repaint on old bus fleet cos stagecoach might get some more bus from the depot and stagecoach's choice, Chester/birkenhead will get more bus from other depot, I dunno. I think Im not sure i might wrong information, TBTC.

HTH,

Martyn

I think not get new livery cos stagecoach wigan got perth, cambridge, aberdeen and western(ayr/kilmarnock), just loan them from scotland to manchester in Hyde road.

 

[Polarbear]

Did Wigan/ Chester/ Birkenhead get any buses in the new livery (before the sale was announced)?

No - Chester & Rock Ferry have no re-liveried vehicles. No new vehicles either come to think about it...!!

 

[markie73]

No - Chester & Rock Ferry have no re-liveried vehicles. No new vehicles either come to think about it...!!

I thought that First had sold both Chester and Rock Ferry operations to Stagecoach?

 

[tbtc]

Wigan get no more repaint on old bus fleet cos stagecoach might get some more bus from the depot and stagecoach's choice, Chester/birkenhead will get more bus from other depot, I dunno. I think Im not sure i might wrong information, TBTC.

HTH,

Martyn

No - Chester & Rock Ferry have no re-liveried vehicles. No new vehicles either come to think about it...!!

Thanks both

I thought that First had sold both Chester and Rock Ferry operations to Stagecoach?

The new livery has been about for a few months, well before the sell off was announced - I thought that in that time there was a chance that one or two buses may have been repainted (before the sale was definite).

 

[overthewater]

What branding is used on the buses with the new livery?

* "East Lothian" for Muss: At this moment of time only a limited number of deckers (which could be moved on). http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisbridgman/8118535879/in/photostream

* 43 route? No idea, There have no branding

* We do have a pic of CITARO http://www.flickr.com/photos/stennybusman/8191159254/

Lets NOT forgot few important points:

* Everything 51 plate of newer has to get repainted either way
* Muss has buses can see further life elsewhere if its closed down
* We'll not sure where that Citaro is heading.
* We have seen this already a number of buses staying with first even after a sell, first could be insure itself if a depot was sold off with certain fleet.

 

[MCW]

Leicester doesn't either. (plays X-files theme)

that's going to be playing in my bloody head every time a first bus goes past me now! LOL

I've got my doubts about Leicester, apparently they too are not getting the new livery........

Its a 115 bus operation which is just about making a profit but could be worth millions if First decided to add it to their hit list....

I'd like to see some figures from them, its just trying to get them.

At the last Leicester quality bus panel meeting I attended, Steve Zanker, who was representing first (been around since LCT/LCB days), said that things were doing quite well and that they had seen some growth in their usage. there weren't any specific figures around However, they did have figures for the trialling of halving the price if family ticket prices during the summer holidays and found that they went from selling about 270 a week to about 3000 a week, which at my calculation is a 1000% increase?

that is weird

apart from that I don't have any figures and what I have is a bit sketchy!!

I am not sure if first won't pull out of here just because they want to knacker up the competition around here?? sounds silly but could be possible.

I don't know..... its so hard myself making up my mind or deciding what to believe to do as I live in Leicester and live on top of two of their routes which take me to town. its not too big an issue as I have arriva as well, but if first pack up and Foxtrot Oscar who would step in?

one also has to think about the local economy and jobs...


Digressed too far, time for a cuppa before my brain loses it! :roll:

 

[tbtc]

Lets NOT forgot few important points:

* Everything 51 plate of newer has to get repainted either way

We've got T-reg repainted here in Sheffield 0 there doesn't appear to be any limit/ logic to ages of vehicles

 

[overthewater]

Hence the reason, the odd are at the higher end. I would also like to know its operating profit for the depot etc. As I've said the fleet is 100% DDA, network is suppose to be doing great, why waste time, money and effort on a place which does not need it? There worse areas which needs to be looked within the first empire.

 

[Lewisham2221]

that's going to be playing in my bloody head every time a first bus goes past me now! LOL



I'd like to see some figures from them, its just trying to get them.

At the last Leicester quality bus panel meeting I attended, Steve Zanker, who was representing first (been around since LCT/LCB days), said that things were doing quite well and that they had seen some growth in their usage. there weren't any specific figures around However, they did have figures for the trialling of halving the price if family ticket prices during the summer holidays and found that they went from selling about 270 a week to about 3000 a week, which at my calculation is a 1000% increase?

that is weird

apart from that I don't have any figures and what I have is a bit sketchy!!

I am not sure if first won't pull out of here just because they want to knacker up the competition around here?? sounds silly but could be possible.

I don't know..... its so hard myself making up my mind or deciding what to believe to do as I live in Leicester and live on top of two of their routes which take me to town. its not too big an issue as I have arriva as well, but if first pack up and Foxtrot Oscar who would step in?

one also has to think about the local economy and jobs...


Digressed too far, time for a cuppa before my brain loses it! :roll:

Re the family day tickets, probably something to do with them ending up costing less than an adult day ticket during the promotion period, at least that's how it ended up at this end of the A50...

 

[MCW]

Re the family day tickets, probably something to do with them ending up costing less than an adult day ticket during the promotion period, at least that's how it ended up at this end of the A50...

I dare say you are probably bang on right there!
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Hence the reason, the odd are at the higher end. I would also like to know its operating profit for the depot etc. As I've said the fleet is 100% DDA, network is suppose to be doing great, why waste time, money and effort on a place which does not need it? There worse areas which needs to be looked within the first empire.

I agree actually...

then again one could argue that the Northampton operation was bad to begin with and that they have just made it a lot worse. had they just reinvested some money into Northampton it would probably make more profit.

however I'm impressed that they still have the old volvo deckers!

 

[Stonesourscotty]

66931 was repainted whilst at Wigan by Bolton Depot (Hence the poor Attempt it doesnt have decals or fleetnumbers applied) it returned to service for approx a week mainly working the 540/658 but was swapped for Boltons 69140 which was rumoured to be Wigan bound 12 Months ago.

 

[185]

Thought this was quite apt from someone formerly at Birkenhead depot.....

 

[MK Tom]

I dare say you are probably bang on right there!
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I agree actually...

then again one could argue that the Northampton operation was bad to begin with and that they have just made it a lot worse. had they just reinvested some money into Northampton it would probably make more profit.

however I'm impressed that they still have the old volvo deckers!

Northampton was a huge operation in GRT days. I'm not normally one to lecture others on things I couldn't do myself but there are SO MANY ways it could've been better managed and any other major operator would've done a better job with it. First just cut left right and centre and went out of their way to avoid spending money on anything except failed prototypes and a line-branding system that made no sense at all. They've been slashing routes for the best part of a decade; it's not a new thing by any means, and neither is the swapping of new vehicles. There used to be 05 plate Wrights single and double deck if you go back several years.

 

[markie73]

Northampton was a huge operation in GRT days. I'm not normally one to lecture others on things I couldn't do myself but there are SO MANY ways it could've been better managed and any other major operator would've done a better job with it. First just cut left right and centre and went out of their way to avoid spending money on anything except failed prototypes and a line-branding system that made no sense at all. They've been slashing routes for the best part of a decade; it's not a new thing by any means, and neither is the swapping of new vehicles. There used to be 05 plate Wrights single and double deck if you go back several years.

I agree with what you say, well if First cant find a buyer (which looks the case at moment) then the only option will be for them to close Northampton and de-register the services, I can't see them keeping a depot which is making a loss etc.

With regards to First slashing routes, Stagecoach picked them up and turned them into profit making services, says it all really.

 

[northrob]

I dont believe York has any..

Might want to change those odds, we've had these (among other deckers) for about a month now.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52890672@N05/8101010890/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52890672@N05/8080631877/in/set-72157624850499954/