First Group: General Discussion

[robertclark125]

Do First realise they own it?

 

[YorkshireRider]

It seems the FTRs (articulate bendi-buses) will start on the Leeds-Bradford 72 route as of a week on Sunday, they have been re-furbed with leather seats, and free wi-fi and the service has been branded hyper-link, all the buses will carry this branding. The buses will retain their hosts (condutors). First are showing them off in Bradford today and in Leeds Briggate on Friday. They will have a frequency of every 7 mins mon-sat daytimes.
Think to be fair to First they have picked the best route for these slugs to operate.

 

[tbtc]

It seems the FTRs (articulate bendi-buses) will start on the Leeds-Bradford 72 route as of a week on Sunday, they have been re-furbed with leather seats, and free wi-fi and the service has been branded hyper-link, all the buses will carry this branding. The buses will retain their hosts (condutors). First are showing them off in Bradford today and in Leeds Briggate on Friday. They will have a frequency of every 7 mins mon-sat daytimes.
Think to be fair to First they have picked the best route for these slugs to operate.

I agree that the 72 does look like a sensible route (pretty straight etc) - but I'm surprised that they are not already being used as Rotherham lost its 07 plate Geminis to go to York a few months ago (to free up the ftr vehicles).

I appreciate that they have had a refurb internally of course, it just seems like a long time since they left daily service in York.

 

[YorkshireRider]

I agree that the 72 does look like a sensible route (pretty straight etc) - but I'm surprised that they are not already being used as Rotherham lost its 07 plate Geminis to go to York a few months ago (to free up the ftr vehicles).

I appreciate that they have had a refurb internally of course, it just seems like a long time since they left daily service in York.

Im not sure really, a few have still been kicking about in the old purple livery on the service 4 in Leeds but not many, i guess first wanted every bus re-furbed before launch on the 72. Im still not sure if these buses are to be Bradford depot based or Leeds? The 72 route as it stands is a Bradford depot job but im not sure if Bradford will have the drivers that are trained on these buses?

 

[tbtc]

Im not sure really, a few have still been kicking about in the old purple livery on the service 4 in Leeds but not many

Is the (Leeds) 4 still going to be ftr operated, or have the ftrs from the York 4 and Leeds 4 all gone to the 72?

(also, going off topic, but what are the hundred or so Geminis new to First in Leeds being used on?)

 

[YorkshireRider]

Is the (Leeds) 4 still going to be ftr operated, or have the ftrs from the York 4 and Leeds 4 all gone to the 72?

(also, going off topic, but what are the hundred or so Geminis new to First in Leeds being used on?)

No, the service 4 will no longer be FTR operated, they have all gone to the 72. The new Geminis have in the main been used on services 1,2,3,3A,6,12,13,13A,33,33A and 51, although they do pop up on other routes now and again.

 

[overthewater]

Do we have any clue when in the next 4 weeks the announcement will be made?

 

[winston270twm]

Do we have any clue when in the next 4 weeks the announcement will be made?

First Group interim results are due Nov 2nd, an announcement/update re - UK bus disposals will more than likely be made then

 

[overthewater]

First Group interim results are due Nov 2nd, an announcement/update re - UK bus disposals will more than likely be made then

So we get something within the week. That's good to hear.

 

[Volvodart]

First Group interim results are due Nov 2nd, an announcement/update re - UK bus disposals will more than likely be made then

The results are announced on the 7th.

 

[winston270twm]

The results are announced on the 7th.

Apologies, Volvodart is correct IG Markets states interims are 2nd Nov, but just checked financial calender on First Group site and it is actually the 7th Nov, so a little bit longer to wait....

 

[overthewater]

A rumor is now appeared that "Go-Ahead" Might be interested in some of First depots in Central belt of Scotland

 

[winston270twm]

National Express group was rumoured to have been close to agreeing a deal to buy Kidderminster, Redditch & Wigan operations, but one of the parties is supposed to have pulled out at the last minute, not sure who & all seems to have gone quiet on the subject

Stagecoach is thought to be buying the bulk of the Northampton business possibly including First Northampton depot as well
http://www.busandcoachforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=10020&start=200

Hopefully should be a week Wed (7th Nov) when we get an update with First Group interims

 

[MK Tom]

National Express group was rumoured to have been close to agreeing a deal to buy Kidderminster, Redditch & Wigan operations, but one of the parties is supposed to have pulled out at the last minute, not sure who & all seems to have gone quiet on the subject

Stagecoach is thought to be buying the bulk of the Northampton business possibly including First Northampton depot as well
http://www.busandcoachforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=10020&start=200

Hopefully should be a week Wed (7th Nov) when we get an update with First Group interims

Stagecoach are a very smart company. I really don't see them buying up an overpriced completely non-standard and clapped out fleet. They'll almost certainly wait it out then just register new routes after First have pulled the plug.

 

[cainebj]

Stagecoach are a very smart company. I really don't see them buying up an overpriced completely non-standard and clapped out fleet. They'll almost certainly wait it out then just register new routes after First have pulled the plug.

It depends on the deal. They might buy the Northampton operations without the buses (allowing First to just scrap the ancient fleet they're transferring in), transferring in some of their own spare fleet seeing as there's a few hundred buses sat around spare after the Olympics finished. Of course, there's a chance unprofitable routes would be chopped or changed too, lowering the amount of extra buses they'd need.
The problem with First just pulling the plug and Stagecoach registering replacement services, is the risk of Stagecoach not managing to purchase the depot, which they need for them to no longer keep buses in Greyfriars overnight, something that could have to be increased if they just registered replacement services without securing a depot.

 

[bb21]

Can I make a request that people do not put their entire posts in bold font please. I have reformatted some of the most recent occurrences however it would be appreciated if this does not happen in the future.

 

[Volvodart]

Stagecoach acquisition of Wigan bus operations from First Manchester Limited

Acquisition of Wigan bus operations from First Manchester Limited

Stagecoach Group plc ("Stagecoach") is pleased to announce that Greater Manchester Buses East Limited, a wholly owned indirect subsidiary of Stagecoach, has agreed to acquire the Wigan bus business and assets from First Manchester Limited ("First") for a consideration of £12 million.

The business being acquired operates commercial bus services and a small number of school contracts, employing approximately 300 people.

In the 12 months to 31 March 2012, the business had revenues of £13.2 million, EBITDA of £2.2 million and an operating profit of £1.5 million.

The purchase includes the owned Locket Road depot in Wigan, as well as some leased premises in Wigan bus station, staff facilities and approximately 120 vehicles. Around 20 of the vehicles are owned by Transport for Greater Manchester, mostly as part of school contract operations.

http://otp.investis.com/clients/uk/stagecoach/rns/regulatory-story.aspx?cid=273&newsid=279930

FIRSTGROUP PLC ("The Group")

Disposal in UK Bus

Sale of Wigan bus business

As part of the Group's stated strategy to reposition its UK Bus division to
focus on those areas that offer the greatest potential for growth, we are
pleased to announce the sale of our Wigan bus business to Stagecoach Group plc
for a consideration of GBP12.0m. On completion of the sale our Wigan bus depot as
well as some leased premises in Wigan bus station, staff facilities and around
120 vehicles and approximately 300 employees will transfer to Stagecoach.

http://online.hemscottir.com/servle...87430775&ir_client_id=2899&transform=newsitem

 

[winston270twm]

Looking at the details of the deal, the Wigan operation is far more profitable than I had expected. I think Stagecoach was more likely than NX Group

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Although NX would have been my choice!

 

[185]

Looking at the details of the deal, the Wigan operation is far more profitable than I had expected. I think Stagecoach was more likely than NX Group

First will try and exaggerate profits to put sale the price up, as any business would. The profits mentioned however, probably are quite achieveable under (most) other management teams than First's.

 

[Blindtraveler]

will CC let this one through?

 

[overthewater]

I get the feeling it already been sent to them and there don't care about this one.

 

[radamfi]

Stagecoach only have one route to Wigan (from Preston) and there is already some competition in the Wigan area. In addition, First will presumably continue to run several services into Wigan from its Bolton depot. So this takeover will increase competition, if anything.

 

[overthewater]

Does anyone have a full list of services in wigan?

 

[radamfi]

Does anyone have a full list of services in wigan?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Manchester#List_of_routes

could be a good starting point, as it shows which depot each route is run by.

 

[Phil6219]

The sale of First's Wigan business had been rumored for a fair while and could if done correctly be a very positive thing.

I'm interested to find out what happens to the 32 and 33 service to & from Manchester as these use a mix of Wigan and Bolton based vehicles. I expect that service will stay with First as otherwise it will mean they loose a fairly busy route given it is the only one from Manchester to Wigan.

If Stagecoach do things right and run a competing Manchester service (or indeed take over the existing route) it could finally force First to lower their already extortionate weekly ticket prices. (I say extortionate given the comparison of the price of ticket and service levels between First & Stagecoach). That said it also offers up a rather awkward situation at least in my area where currently my weekly ticket can get me on a number of services to my house (12/25/26/32/33/X34) but if two of those become Stagecoach it will reduce the choice of services on a single ticket though if they compete it should reduce the price of a ticket and even increase the frequency of the services (as despite 6 services only 2.5 actually run at a given point).

Before anyone points it out I am fully aware that Stagecoach can run high frequency services at low prices because it has the South Manchester corridors used by students which are very busy, but as I have ranted on & on about in the past North Manchester needs a better service and First fail to deliver as they are only interested in Bolton, Bury and Rochdale.

Before I end up ranting on for all eternity I just want to reiterate my earlier point which is should this takeover be done correctly and competition arises then it will be a good thing. It will also finally be some proper competition as was promised when they privatised GM Buses (where First & Stagecoach avoided each over like the plague instead of the promised competition).

Phil

 

[Swirlz]

Hopefully my local depot, "rock ferry", won't be far behind in the sales.

I just want a bus that doesn't rain more on the inside... before the driver terminates the bus because it is flooded. Happened more than once!

 

[overthewater]

Wigan already has Arriva in the town aswell, so plenty of chance to make improvements for everyone.

Could Stagecoach still get gold of Rock ferry? Or could someone else grab it?

I wonder why there have push out this statement before it was due? or is there something else due to come out shortly aswell?

 

[northwichcat]

Hopefully my local depot, "rock ferry", won't be far behind in the sales.

I just want a bus that doesn't rain more on the inside... before the driver terminates the bus because it is flooded. Happened more than once!

Sounds like you get buses that First would want to off load with the sale if there were to sell the Wirral operations.

The Waterloo (Huddersfield) depot formerly of Yorkshire Traction is a good example of what happens to buses when they are purchases and sell offs.

The depot didn't have the most attractive bus fleet under Yorkshire Traction.

Stagecoach took over Yorkshire Traction and almost immediately sent a few newer buses fully branded as Stagecoach to work alongside the de-branded Yorkshire Traction livered buses and there was a slight improvement overall in the age and quality of buses kept there.

However, Stagecoach decided they didn't really want the Waterloo depot but before they sold it off to Centrebus Holdings they switched the buses around to put the older and non-standard buses at Waterloo to keep the better buses for the operations around Barnsley and Sheffield that Stagecoach were keeping.

 

[overthewater]

The talk is starting to get stronger over the following:

* Northampton Is expected a press release next week:

* First Scotland East, Go Ahead is looking at buy the rest of the operations.