First Group: General Discussion

[Qwerty133]

Are "W" reg buses "scrap"?

these ones are yes they are always breaking down

 

[overthewater]

Another WEEK and something have changed, New movements etc, which could change the outcome.


* First in Northampton: Evans
Its 7/4 for it to be left until next years now :

* First Edinburgh: Spilt: The odd have gone up, its now looking unlikely at this moment to be getting sold off BUT its big but:
* Musselburgh EVANS: is stilled believed to be getting closed down, whether it happens any time soon is a different kettle of fish.
* Livingston: 11/8.
* Scottish borders: 20/1
* Larbart and Stirling: 25/1

* First Chester & the Wirral, 11/4
No sign of this getting sold of either this time and with stagecoach splashing the cash in Manchester and having to deal with the OFT/CC I doubt there will got for Rock ferry at the momment. Next Q who would then want Chester depot? NO PROFIT and fighting with Arriva, could Arriva buy it if there could prove first chester depot is in the red? meaning it could not operate for long?

* Lea Interchange: 5/1
It’s gone very quiet on the London depots who would want to buy this? First would still hold 5 depots in London if this and Dagenham were sold, would there still be able to operate a good share holding?

* First Ipswich 12/1 New entry, Not big depot but also its somewant out of the way. First is the underdog but is trying to fight but not having much luck. maybe getting some cash and disappearing could help the town get better network.

* First York: 40/1

* Redditch and Kidderminster 40/1

* First Cornwall 45/1

* First Leicester 50/1

Aberdeen 100/1

Maybe next week we will see some change but I have a feeling we will not see anything moving forward in this department until the new year. I thought first would have made more progress then just ONE company.

 

[Volvodart]

http://online.hemscottir.com/servle...87438738&ir_client_id=2899&transform=newsitem

http://online.hemscottir.com/servle...90302980&ir_client_id=2899&transform=newsitem

FirstGroup PLC Disposal

TIDMFGP

FIRSTGROUP PLC ("The Group")

Disposal in UK Bus

Sale of Birkenhead and Chester bus businesses

As part of the Group's stated strategy to reposition its UK Bus division to
focus on those areas that offer the greatest potential for growth, we are
pleased to announce the sale of our Birkenhead and Chester bus businesses to
Stagecoach Group plc for a consideration of GBP4.5m. On completion of the sale
our Birkenhead and Chester bus depots as well as a leased outstation in Wrexham
and around 110 vehicles and approximately 290 employees will transfer to
Stagecoach.

Commenting Giles Fearnley, First's Managing Director, UK Bus said:

"Birkenhead and Chester are businesses where we have previously seen lower than
average margins and they are not core to our operations. They fit better with
Stagecoach's existing portfolio in the area and also allow us to realise
efficiencies in support costs. The sale of these operations marks further
progress in disposing of selected assets and businesses as we review the scope
and scale of our portfolio and reposition it for the longer term. We are
progressing our detailed programme to recover performance and equip our UK Bus
business to achieve sustainable revenue and patronage growth."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stagecoach Group plc

Acquisition of bus operations in Merseyside, Cheshire and North Wales
Stagecoach Group plc ("Stagecoach") is pleased to announce that Glenvale Transport Ltd, a wholly owned indirect subsidiary of Stagecoach, has agreed to acquire certain businesses and assets of subsidiaries of FirstGroup plc ("First") for a consideration of £4.5 million.

The businesses being acquired operate commercial and tendered bus services in Chester, Wrexham and Birkenhead, employing approximately 290 people.

In the 12 months to 31 March 2012, the business had revenues of £11.9 million, EBITDA of around £1.7 million and an operating profit of around £0.6 million.

The purchase includes around 110 vehicles, as well as the owned depot site at New Chester Road, Rock Ferry, Birkenhead; the owned depot facility at Liverpool Road, Chester; and a leased out-station facility at Rhosddu Industrial Estate, Rhosddu, Wrexham.

The acquisition will allow Stagecoach to expand its successful bus operations in the North West where our Merseyside and South Lancashire business already operates more than 300 buses and employs more than 900 staff.

The operations will become part of Stagecoach Merseyside and South Lancashire, which carries 33 million passengers a year and is led by Managing Director Elisabeth Tasker.

Staff will transfer to Stagecoach's Glenvale Transport Ltd business under TUPE arrangements.

Stagecoach expects the acquisition to be completed in December 2012 or January 2013.

Les Warneford, Managing Director of Stagecoach UK Bus, said: "This acquisition will extend our operations in the north west of England, particularly in Merseyside. We believe there is significant scope to develop these businesses and improve their financial performance by investing in the quality of the bus fleet, as well as offering customers our good value fares and attractive network tickets."

 

[winston270twm]

http://online.hemscottir.com/servle...87438738&ir_client_id=2899&transform=newsitem

http://online.hemscottir.com/servle...90302980&ir_client_id=2899&transform=newsitem

FirstGroup PLC Disposal

TIDMFGP

FIRSTGROUP PLC ("The Group")

Disposal in UK Bus

Sale of Birkenhead and Chester bus businesses

As part of the Group's stated strategy to reposition its UK Bus division to
focus on those areas that offer the greatest potential for growth, we are
pleased to announce the sale of our Birkenhead and Chester bus businesses to
Stagecoach Group plc for a consideration of GBP4.5m. On completion of the sale
our Birkenhead and Chester bus depots as well as a leased outstation in Wrexham
and around 110 vehicles and approximately 290 employees will transfer to
Stagecoach.

Commenting Giles Fearnley, First's Managing Director, UK Bus said:

"Birkenhead and Chester are businesses where we have previously seen lower than
average margins and they are not core to our operations. They fit better with
Stagecoach's existing portfolio in the area and also allow us to realise
efficiencies in support costs. The sale of these operations marks further
progress in disposing of selected assets and businesses as we review the scope
and scale of our portfolio and reposition it for the longer term. We are
progressing our detailed programme to recover performance and equip our UK Bus
business to achieve sustainable revenue and patronage growth."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stagecoach Group plc

Acquisition of bus operations in Merseyside, Cheshire and North Wales
Stagecoach Group plc ("Stagecoach") is pleased to announce that Glenvale Transport Ltd, a wholly owned indirect subsidiary of Stagecoach, has agreed to acquire certain businesses and assets of subsidiaries of FirstGroup plc ("First") for a consideration of £4.5 million.

The businesses being acquired operate commercial and tendered bus services in Chester, Wrexham and Birkenhead, employing approximately 290 people.

In the 12 months to 31 March 2012, the business had revenues of £11.9 million, EBITDA of around £1.7 million and an operating profit of around £0.6 million.

The purchase includes around 110 vehicles, as well as the owned depot site at New Chester Road, Rock Ferry, Birkenhead; the owned depot facility at Liverpool Road, Chester; and a leased out-station facility at Rhosddu Industrial Estate, Rhosddu, Wrexham.

The acquisition will allow Stagecoach to expand its successful bus operations in the North West where our Merseyside and South Lancashire business already operates more than 300 buses and employs more than 900 staff.

The operations will become part of Stagecoach Merseyside and South Lancashire, which carries 33 million passengers a year and is led by Managing Director Elisabeth Tasker.

Staff will transfer to Stagecoach's Glenvale Transport Ltd business under TUPE arrangements.

Stagecoach expects the acquisition to be completed in December 2012 or January 2013.

Les Warneford, Managing Director of Stagecoach UK Bus, said: "This acquisition will extend our operations in the north west of England, particularly in Merseyside. We believe there is significant scope to develop these businesses and improve their financial performance by investing in the quality of the bus fleet, as well as offering customers our good value fares and attractive network tickets."

Based on the sales prices of Wigan & todays Chester & Rock Ferry disposal it just goes to show what poor shape the operations are in. With the latest disposal, the tally is still only up to around £31.5 Million, there is still some considerable way to go to achieve the £100 Million target, which I don't think they'll achieve without selling something tasty.....

 

[markie73]

Another WEEK and something have changed, New movements etc, which could change the outcome.


* First in Northampton: Evans
Its 7/4 for it to be left until next years now :

* First Edinburgh: Spilt: The odd have gone up, its now looking unlikely at this moment to be getting sold off BUT its big but:
* Musselburgh EVANS: is stilled believed to be getting closed down, whether it happens any time soon is a different kettle of fish.
* Livingston: 11/8.
* Scottish borders: 20/1
* Larbart and Stirling: 25/1

* First Chester & the Wirral, 11/4
No sign of this getting sold of either this time and with stagecoach splashing the cash in Manchester and having to deal with the OFT/CC I doubt there will got for Rock ferry at the momment. Next Q who would then want Chester depot? NO PROFIT and fighting with Arriva, could Arriva buy it if there could prove first chester depot is in the red? meaning it could not operate for long?

* Lea Interchange: 5/1
It’s gone very quiet on the London depots who would want to buy this? First would still hold 5 depots in London if this and Dagenham were sold, would there still be able to operate a good share holding?

* First Ipswich 12/1 New entry, Not big depot but also its somewant out of the way. First is the underdog but is trying to fight but not having much luck. maybe getting some cash and disappearing could help the town get better network.

* First York: 40/1

* Redditch and Kidderminster 40/1

* First Cornwall 45/1

* First Leicester 50/1

Aberdeen 100/1

Maybe next week we will see some change but I have a feeling we will not see anything moving forward in this department until the new year. I thought first would have made more progress then just ONE company.

So would anybody like to bet that First will close the Northampton depot and cancel its routes by the end of the year as it looks like no buyer has been found?.

 

[overthewater]

This is dangerous game stagecoach has played. Will the oft/cc allow all three to get sorted?

I get the feeling, touch wood that any more sell off will not included Stagecoach.

 

[markie73]

This is dangerous game stagecoach has played. Will the oft/cc allow all three to get sorted?

I get the feeling, touch wood that any more sell off will not included Stagecoach.

Stagecoach Midlands has a big slice of the routes in Northampton and several ex-First services have moved to Stagecoach not too long ago, I wonder if the all of the remaining First Northampton routes will eventually be hoovered up by them?, hence the delay in making any announcements?

 

[MK Tom]

Stagecoach Midlands has a big slice of the routes in Northampton and several ex-First services have moved to Stagecoach not too long ago, I wonder if the all of the remaining First Northampton routes will eventually be hoovered up by them?, hence the delay in making any announcements?

The only thing that would change that is if Uno registered over them first or bought a part of the operation. But then Stagecoach would probably go into all out total war mode so either way this is what I see happening. Will be interesting to watch it play out though!

 

[markie73]

The only thing that would change that is if Uno registered over them first or bought a part of the operation. But then Stagecoach would probably go into all out total war mode so either way this is what I see happening. Will be interesting to watch it play out though!

I thought that Uno was supposed to be taking over First Northampton services 4 and 4A very soon, but that has gone quiet recently but I agree with you that Stagecoach could enter war mode over First Northampton/Uno Bus, but the only way I can see Stagecoach taking any routes from First is if they close the operation down and cancel their routes which would then allow Stagecoach and its silly fares to dominate the town.

 

[Phil6219]

Hence the all-too-regular occurrences of vehicles on routes that their size is not appropriate for (one way or the other). This, if anything, is a serious flaw in the company that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later...

The amount of times they insist on putting the hybrid midi-bus on the number 12 on a Saturday night, sure they stick it on the service which only goes as far as Atherton but it is still beyond unsuitable for the route, it is packed full before it even sets off from Piccadilly Gardens...

First Manchester are introducing new significant fare deals from 18 November.

There will be new day and week tickets covering parts of the area.

One covering the area inside the M60 and another covering Oldham borough, with an extension along the Oldham to Manchester corridor.

Both priced at £3.90 per day and £13 per week, compared to the regular networkwide tickets at £4.50 per day and £18 per week.

Oh well that's swell, real swell. What about those of us on the other side of the M60 who will still end up paying for the extortionate £18 for a weekly ticket. How they get away with charging so much when everyone else charges much less is beyond me, then again having some competition in North Manchester may change that.

I've been told from a friend that the 32 is staying with First and will use vehicles from the Bolton depot (so I guess those fancy 37xxx Gemini's will be leaving Wigan soon). The 33 is going over to Stagecoach apparently, given it is a Wigan depot at night and a Manchester depot during the day when it runs that ridiculous third of a distance service. I hope it is true and I hope they stick it on a full length as I'll switch over to them even if it does mean I can only use one route, the way we have been treated by First over the years a pound is much better in Stagecoach's pocket than First's (plus the extra saved pounds are much better in my pocket).

It will be interesting to see what happens with Bluebird though, they are mainly in Middleton and Stagecoach taking over their operations has surely got the attention of First. I wouldn't consider that North Manchester though, I define it as Bolton, Leigh, Wigan and maybe Bury.

Now is a perfect opportunity for Stagecoach to get in big in North Manchester, switch the 33 to a full daytime service. They could bring in some extra buses and run services from Leigh alongside the existing Wigan - Leigh services, perhaps from Bolton running those alongside the existing Wigan - Bolton services.

Phil

 

[tbtc]

we are pleased to announce the sale of our Birkenhead and Chester bus businesses to Stagecoach Group plc for a consideration of GBP4.5m

To put things in context, does anyone remember what First paid for the Chester City Transport business?

 

[185]

First Manchester are introducing new significant fare deals from 18 November.

There will be new day and week tickets covering parts of the area.
One covering the area inside the M60 and another covering Oldham borough, with an extension along the Oldham to Manchester corridor.
Both priced at £3.90 per day and £13 per week, compared to the regular networkwide tickets at £4.50 per day and £18 per week.

I wonder as various chunks of First Manchester bus empire one by one slowly fall off, will the price of the FirstDay eventually fall to about 20p to represent the area they cover? :P

 

[Ivo]

Why are the sums involved in these transfers always called "considerations"? Also, in light of people saying about making a £100M target, remember that it's not just about selling off branches - it's also about removing loss-making areas. Such areas don't need to be sold for them to show up as "profit" in the longer run (if not literally).

This is dangerous game stagecoach has played. Will the oft/cc allow all three to get sorted?

The Manchester/Merseyside area can effectively be split into three uneven parts. First dominate northern Manchester. Stagecoach dominate southern Manchester. Arriva dominate pretty much everything else (apart from the municipal areas of Warrington and Halton). OK, Stagecoach have a presence in Liverpool, but it's far smaller than Arriva. As such, it seems unlikely to me that the OfT etc would take issue with it.

 

[overthewater]

To put things in context, does anyone remember what First paid for the Chester City Transport business?

iIt says in this newsreport: http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/whe.../chesterbus-is-it-a-fare-deal-55578-19415666/

First brought Chester for £1.8million, while the council sold off the depot for something else. First got paid £3.7Million Bargain?

That three Depots gone from that So called list: with Only Northampton, Somerset, Redditch/Kiddminster being left.

I doubt we will even GET TO £50Million, so the question is how will First raise the other £50million

 

[starrymarkb]

Why are the sums involved in these transfers always called "considerations"?.

Consideration is the legal term used in contracts of this nature.

From Wiki

Consideration is the concept of legal value in connection with contracts. It is anything of value promised to another when making a contract. It can take the form of money, physical objects, services, promised actions, abstinence from a future action, and much more.

If A signs a contract to buy a car from B for $5,000, A's consideration is the $5,000, and B's consideration is the car.
Additionally, if A signs a contract with B such that A will paint B's house for $500, A's consideration is the service of painting B's house, and B's consideration is $500 paid to A.

So First's consideration will be the staff, depots, buses, routes etc
Stagecoach's consideration will be the £Xmillion....

 

[markie73]

iIt says in this newsreport: http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/whe.../chesterbus-is-it-a-fare-deal-55578-19415666/

First brought Chester for £1.8million, while the council sold off the depot for something else. First got paid £3.7Million Bargain?

That three Depots gone from that So called list: with Only Northampton, Somerset, Redditch/Kiddminster being left.

I doubt we will even GET TO £50Million, so the question is how will First raise the other £50million

First Northampton sold the St.James garage a while back but lease it back so I doubt if they would raise any money for this should they sell the operation, as for the fleet apart from the sole remaining Gemini (which is stoke bound soon) its not worth much except for scrap value.

I don't know if First have got a buyer for Northampton but if not then I can't see them keeping a loss making depot on their books,in my opinion I think that they will end up closing the depot and cancelling their services if a buyer/deal is not found, if that happens then we can say good bye to a proud history.

 

[Jeni]

My question in general is how can First get things so horribly wrong? Amongst people I speak to (mix of enthusiasts and non enthusiasts) the general view is that First are pretty (for want of a better word) rubbish.

Have they not considered taking a leaf out of other operators books? Stagecoach in principle seem to do quite well, and I don't think anyone doubts that they will run their recent First acquisitions a lot better than First have. I've never experienced Arriva, but from the outside looking in, they seem to do a half decent job.

Taking the cost aspect, they just seem to want to price people off buses, it's almost as if they don't actually want any customers.

 

[winston270twm]

iIt says in this newsreport: http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/whe.../chesterbus-is-it-a-fare-deal-55578-19415666/

First brought Chester for £1.8million, while the council sold off the depot for something else. First got paid £3.7Million Bargain?

That three Depots gone from that So called list: with Only Northampton, Somerset, Redditch/Kiddminster being left.

I doubt we will even GET TO £50Million, so the question is how will First raise the other £50million

Redditch & Kidderminster only account for 51 vehicles, so those two operation aren't going to fetch much

 

[markie73]

My question in general is how can First get things so horribly wrong? Amongst people I speak to (mix of enthusiasts and non enthusiasts) the general view is that First are pretty (for want of a better word) rubbish.

Have they not considered taking a leaf out of other operators books? Stagecoach in principle seem to do quite well, and I don't think anyone doubts that they will run their recent First acquisitions a lot better than First have. I've never experienced Arriva, but from the outside looking in, they seem to do a half decent job.

Taking the cost aspect, they just seem to want to price people off buses, it's almost as if they don't actually want any customers.

Northampton Transport used to be council owned and was the best municipal operator in the UK, the operation was sold to GRT in the mid 90's and GRT merged with Badgerline which became First Bus, sadly the operation has been going down the pan for the past 12 or so years and has been a victim or poor management decisions etc and more recently the newish B7L's have been swapped for 16 - 17 year old stock which is a prime candidate for the scrap yard.

I don't understand why First have done this when the Northampton operation is for sale and will depreciate the value of the operation if,as, and when a buyer is found.

My own feeling that if a buyer had been found then we would have known something by now, I think its just a matter of time before the Northampton operation is closed down and the services cancelled, which will allow other operators to step in a register their own replacement services.



--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Redditch & Kidderminster only account for 51 vehicles, so those two operation aren't going to fetch much

I wonder what the value of the Northampton operation is? its only a 30 odd bus operation compared to Redditch and Kidderminster.

 

[winston270twm]

Northampton Transport used to be council owned and was the best municipal operator in the UK, the operation was sold to GRT in the mid 90's and GRT merged with Badgerline which became First Bus, sadly the operation has been going down the pan for the past 12 or so years and has been a victim or poor management decisions etc and more recently the newish B7L's have been swapped for 16 - 17 year old stock which is a prime candidate for the scrap yard.

I don't understand why First have done this when the Northampton operation is for sale and will depreciate the value of the operation if,as, and when a buyer is found.

My own feeling that if a buyer had been found then we would have known something by now, I think its just a matter of time before the Northampton operation is closed down and the services cancelled, which will allow other operators to step in a register their own replacement services.



--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I wonder what the value of the Northampton operation is? its only a 30 odd bus operation compared to Redditch and Kidderminster.

Redditch & Kidderminster should both also include depot properties, where as Northampton doesn't. I wouldn't have though it would be worth any more than a million

 

[markie73]

Redditch & Kidderminster should both also include depot properties, where as Northampton doesn't. I wouldn't have though it would be worth any more than a million

First used to own the St.James depot which they sold and now lease back, I bet they regret making that mistake as the depot and the land it sits on is worth a couple of million, mind you it would need a couple of million spent to update it as well!

 

[tbtc]

My question in general is how can First get things so horribly wrong? Amongst people I speak to (mix of enthusiasts and non enthusiasts) the general view is that First are pretty (for want of a better word) rubbish.

Have they not considered taking a leaf out of other operators books? Stagecoach in principle seem to do quite well, and I don't think anyone doubts that they will run their recent First acquisitions a lot better than First have. I've never experienced Arriva, but from the outside looking in, they seem to do a half decent job.

Taking the cost aspect, they just seem to want to price people off buses, it's almost as if they don't actually want any customers.

First got lazy and tried to make their money by squeezing more money out of the existing passenger base, the above inflationary rises each year trying to make up for the declining number of people using their buses.

Stagecoach seem to try to attract new passengers more, like the free weekly tickets they send out in targeted mailings, initiatives like Megabus (compared to the way that First's "express" services have dwindled in a lot of areas).

Hopefully Stagecoach can start to attract new passengers instead of just managing decline.

 

[Jeni]

Hopefully Stagecoach can start to attract new passengers instead of just managing decline.

Are First able to turn around the general decline? Or are we realistically going to see First eventually pull out of the bus industry completely?

 

[tbtc]

Are First able to turn around the general decline? Or are we realistically going to see First eventually pull out of the bus industry completely?

There are signs that they are starting to change their old game, in some places. The Sheffield weekly ticket came down from £18.50 to £11 two weeks ago, but that was part of the "Bus Partnership" which saw a PTE product (available on Stagecoach bus/ Tram), so kind of forced their hand.

Similar reduction in Manchester ticket price but only for those inside the M60 - plus a new "cross city" service (a rarity in Manchester, connecting the core First area to the University/ Hospital area on the Stagecoach side of town).

But a lot of their initiatives seem quite half hearted. Look at the amount of articulated buses they bought for Manchester/ Leeds etc that were redundant after just a few years. Compare their declining Greyhound to Stagecoach's expanding Megabus. Or how First came up with a new livery for Hybrid buses (like Stagecoach have a dedicated livery for Hybrid buses) then started painting non-hybrid buses in it, then started a whole other livery, like nobody knows what the strategy is.

The other problem they have is that a lot of their operations are in "mature" markets (PTE areas etc) - compare to how Stagecoach have grown things in Oxford/ Cambridge etc, appealing to "non-traditional" bus passengers.

 

[Ivo]

A lot of First subisidiaries lack ambition. When things are working well, they avoid chopping and changing and let services become overcrowded, putting people off and potentially limiting the appeal of said route again. On the other hand, when things are going badly, instead of innovating as Stagecoach would they give up and withdraw affected services, which are then picked up by independents (and not always with council subsidies) who lead the route to better things. They only really show any ambition as such in the deep urban markets such as Leeds and Bristol.

Granted, they have revised South Hampshire completely - but how much of that was due to the competition from Go-Ahead (in Southampton) and Stagecoach (in Portsmouth)? Not to mention this kind of mass restructuring has been very limited...

 

[winston270twm]

Are First able to turn around the general decline? Or are we realistically going to see First eventually pull out of the bus industry completely?

I would have thought so as long as they can service their debt mountain. As a last resort they may be forced to hold a rights issue to pay down some of the debt to more manageable levels. First finally seem to have clicked that their fares are far too high, they also need to regularly invest in new vehicles for all their subsidiaries.

It's going to be a hard long slog to stem the decline

 

[Jeni]

plus a new "cross city" service (a rarity in Manchester, connecting the core First area to the University/ Hospital area on the Stagecoach side of town).

Which terminates about a mile short of being useful, rarely turns up and when it does... goes flying past your stop

The 18 has all the hallmarks of a traditional First service!

 

[tbtc]

Another big thing for First to address is their policy of retaining a vehicle until it's kaput. I understand why they didn't want their buses to fall into the hands of other companies when they thought that *their* buses were a cut above the norm.

But nowadays it means First still using knackered vehicles, squeezing the life out of them (like the N reg B10Ls in Sheffield, when Stagecoach are happy to withdraw buses at ten/ fifteen years. So some First areas see buses a lot older than they would have if another company was running that town.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Which terminates about a mile short of being useful, rarely turns up and when it does... goes flying past your stop

The 18 has all the hallmarks of a traditional First service!

I fear that they won't stick with it - they'll half heartedly run it for six months and then decide it didn't work.

Not used it yet

 

[overthewater]

Also has anyone else notice during the Ecomanic turndown,

* Who was out there slashing bus routes and pushing up fares? FIRST,
* Who was out there trying to cut conners and not spend any money on new buses? FIRST

* Who was out there not making ANY major cutback? Stagecoach
* Who continued to only increase fares once a year? Stagecoach
* Who continued to buy new buses? Stagecoach
* Who continued to see any noticeable mile reduction in there operation but infact so an increase? Stagecoach

Facts speck for themselves. if first does pull out it would be to the links of Nat Express and Go ahead to pick up many of the piece.

 

[markie73]

Which terminates about a mile short of being useful, rarely turns up and when it does... goes flying past your stop

The 18 has all the hallmarks of a traditional First service!

Sounds just like some of our services here in Northampton!