First Group: General Discussion

[Volvodart]

Seen elsewhere that Leeds is due the first lot of 284 new buses, with deliveries this autumn for routes 1 and 6. Type unknown... how reliable this is I'm not sure

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/partially-blind-leeds-man-calls-on-transport-bosses-to-make-buses-more-accessible-for-the-disabled-1-8662975

Paul Matthews, Managing Director at First West Yorkshire said: “One of the points raised in the petition is investment in audio annoucments and I am pleased to confirm that as part of the Leeds Public Transport Investment Programme, we have committed to fitting audio visual next stop announcement systems on all our new buses. Customers can expect to see these starting to appear on our vehicles from the end of this year.”

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Customers can expect to see these starting to appear on our vehicles from the end of this year.

Surely, customers can expect to start hearing these on our vehicles from the new year?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Surely, customers can expect to start hearing these on our vehicles from the new year?

They are audio visual displays so they can see them as well as hear them

 

[Baxenden Bank]

They are audio visual displays so they can see them as well as hear them

Fair enough, I've only come across audio announcements on my travels, other than the GPS LED scrolling displays which have been around for a while in some areas.

The audio announcements being the ones that announce the stop just in time for you to miss it! Ring the bell upon hearing the announcement and the driver can slam the brakes on or say, sorry mate, you need to give me more warning. I suppose a regular traveller who is visually impaired will know the name of the stop prior to the one they want and can judge their bell press accordingly.

 

[brompton rail]

Fair enough, I've only come across audio announcements on my travels, other than the GPS LED scrolling displays which have been around for a while in some areas.

The audio announcements being the ones that announce the stop just in time for you to miss it! Ring the bell upon hearing the announcement and the driver can slam the brakes on or say, sorry mate, you need to give me more warning. I suppose a regular traveller who is visually impaired will know the name of the stop prior to the one they want and can judge their bell press accordingly.

Works well enough on Trent Barton services, like Derby Ashbourne Uttoxeter, so why shouldn't it work on First! (I can hear your comments now

 

[AB93]

New buses for York
6 x Mercedes-Benz Citaro G Bendibuses
18 x Double Decks (Type not known)
3 x Optare MetroDecker EV
8 x Single Decks (Type not known)

Errrr, yes they are?! The managing director at First York has confirmed these.

It been reported in the trade press, and local newspapers.

Route One:-
http://www.route-one.net/articles/Bus_routes/First_wins_York_Park___Ride_contract__with_part_electric_bid

Coach and Bus Week:-

https://cbwmagazine.com/first-york-pr-contract-renewed/

None of those articles match the quoted vehicle figures though.

Also, the York Council website clearly shows that First's bid was for Enviro400MMCs as the diesel double deckers.

 

[AB93]

Thinking about the York park and ride - there are currently 36 vehicles branded for park and ride in York (11101-11115, 49901-12, 69365-69373). If the electric versas are staying on the park and ride, then only 24 new vehicles will be required, unless of course the PVR is increasing. If the PVR isn't increasing then maybe the order is different?

Yes exactly, although 49912 is a uni bus not P&R any more. Currently are 35 P&R buses and two yellow spares.

The electric Optares are staying on P&R according to the council paperwork.

So if the new vehicles are 6 + 18 + 3 + 8 = 35 + 11 existing Versas = 46, where is the massive PVR increase coming from? Maybe it's just me, but something doesn't seem to add up.

The documents on the council website shows:
11 existing Versas
18 Enviro400MMCs
3 Optare MetroDecker EVs
6 Merc artics.

 

[THarris123]

Yes exactly, although 49912 is a uni bus not P&R any more. Currently are 35 P&R buses and two yellow spares.

The electric Optares are staying on P&R according to the council paperwork.

So if the new vehicles are 6 + 18 + 3 + 8 = 35 + 11 existing Versas = 46, where is the massive PVR increase coming from? Maybe it's just me, but something doesn't seem to add up.

The documents on the council website shows:
11 existing Versas
18 Enviro400MMCs
3 Optare MetroDecker EVs
6 Merc artics.

Surely 11+18+3+6 = 38, which is a PVR increase too?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Surely 11+18+3+6 = 38, which is a PVR increase too?

Didn't an earlier poster say there were 35 vehicles plus 2 yellow spares? Not a major change

 

[THarris123]

Have we seen any new vehicles with 17 plates yet?

I guess the only one which we know of is the gas bus in Bristol.

Are there any others?

 

[F Great Eastern]

Only ones I have seen are the 4x Aircoach Panthers in Dublin, but these were built late last year and were held back for 2017 plates.

 

[Strathclyder]

Have we seen any new vehicles with 17 plates yet?

I guess the only one which we know of is the gas bus in Bristol.

Are there any others?

I realize that this may not count exactly, but the Streetdeck demo currently in use in York (35100) is a 17-reg machine (SK17 HDD, to be precise).

 

[route101]

Anyone know what happened to the 65 plate e400s in Glasgow?

 

[Strathclyder]

Anyone know what happened to the 65 plate e400s in Glasgow?

A few (the last 5 or 6 of the batch) have been transferred over to Blantyre for the X11 (Glasgow Buchanan - Newmains/Cleland via Motherwell & Wishaw Express) in exchange for an equal number of their Geminis, but as you'd expect, they've already strayed onto the likes of the X1, 18, 267 etc.

As for the remaining E400MMCs at Caledonia, they've been removed from the 5 (St. Enoch Centre - Castlemilk) in recent weeks (with that route having moved back over to Gemini operation), with their sphere of regular operations now consisting of the X3, 88/89/89A & the X85/X87, with irregular appearances on the 4/4A & 75.

 

[route101]

A few (the last 5 or 6 of the batch) have been transferred over to Blantyre for the X11 (Glasgow Buchanan - Newmains/Cleland via Motherwell & Wishaw Express) in exchange for an equal number of their Geminis, but as you'd expect, they've already strayed onto the likes of the X1, 18, 267 etc.

As for the remaining E400MMCs at Caledonia, they've been removed from the 5 (St. Enoch Centre - Castlemilk) in recent weeks (with that route having moved back over to Gemini operation), with their sphere of regular operations now consisting of the X3, 88/89/89A & the X85/X87, with irregular appearances on the 4/4A & 75.

Interesting , wonder what made them decide that ? I can think of is some relaunch of the X11 . 18 could do with new buses .

 

[Strathclyder]

Interesting , wonder what made them decide that ? I can think of is some relaunch of the X11 . 18 could do with new buses .

Something to do with their performance on the motorway, apparently. Would explain why they're now appearing on the X3/X11 & have been kept on the X85/X87. The 18 does well enough with it's regular allocation of Geminis of all creeds at the moment, but the eldest of the bunch (ex-South Yorkshire 53-reg examples) will no doubt be the first to be withdrawn when the time comes...

 

[overthewater]

Something to do with their performance on the motorway, apparently. Would explain why they're now appearing on the X3/X11 & have been kept on the X85/X87. The 18 does well enough with it's regular allocation of Geminis of all creeds at the moment, but the eldest of the bunch (ex-South Yorkshire 53-reg examples) will no doubt be the first to be withdrawn when the time comes...

Those 53 plate Gem will still be in active service for a couple of years yet. There a ton of stuff older than them to get replaced first.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Those 53 plate Gem will still be in active service for a couple of years yet. There a ton of stuff older than them to get replaced first.

Given that there are still W reg B7s and even older Tridents still working hard, it will be some time yet! That and the change in asset life to 17 years so another 3-4 years at least.

 

[overthewater]

Given that there are still W reg B7s and even older Tridents still working hard, it will be some time yet! That and the change in asset life to 17 years so another 3-4 years at least.

What happened to the mid life ( 8 years) refurbishment programme? That would help solve some of the problems within First. A nice spring clean and there could last longer.

 

[Blackpudding]

Given that there are still W reg B7s and even older Tridents still working hard, it will be some time yet! That and the change in asset life to 17 years so another 3-4 years at least.

Just to clarify the 17years TGW. The accounts have noted since the year ending March 2016 that the life of double and single deck vehicles is depreciated over 15 to 17 years straight line. All other types appear to remain as before with a straight line depreciation life of between 7 and 15 years. I didn't check every single company account but those I did were consistent with these rules.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What happened to the mid life ( 8 years) refurbishment programme? That would help solve some of the problems within First. A nice spring clean and there could last longer.

In West of England, all of the Geminis (2005-9) received the refurb. However, few single decks were so treated. Now seems to be that vehicles are getting refurbished on a case by case basis so that the 2009 Eclipses (plus a couple of 2004 ones) were refurbished for the Mendip Explorer routes. Similarly, the 2001/2 ALX B7TLs for newly branded routes in Bristol and for the Bath Spa Uni services were refurbed but the repaints for the Bath service 5 weren't.

Similarly, I believe that Hants & Dorset refurbed most of their Eclipses at the time and the few Geminis (?) but that subsequent arrivals have not been so touched except specific ones (e.g. the Slowcoaster Tridents)

 

[overthewater]

Just to clarify the 17years TGW. The accounts have noted since the year ending March 2016 that the life of double and single deck vehicles is depreciated over 15 to 17 years straight line. All other types appear to remain as before with a straight line depreciation life of between 7 and 15 years. I didn't check every single company account but those I did were consistent with these rules.

I take it Glasgow falls into the 15to 17 years line?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Just to clarify the 17years TGW. The accounts have noted since the year ending March 2016 that the life of double and single deck vehicles is depreciated over 15 to 17 years straight line. All other types appear to remain as before with a straight line depreciation life of between 7 and 15 years. I didn't check every single company account but those I did were consistent with these rules.

The deckers I had assumed would be the longer end of things given their greater capital cost

 

[Blackpudding]

I take it Glasgow falls into the 15to 17 years line?

Both Glasgow 1 and Glasgow 2 fall into that category.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC127012/filing-history

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC127012/filing-history

Open the PDF file for either account ending March 2016 and scroll down to page 10 for the full details

 

[Blackpudding]

The deckers I had assumed would be the longer end of things given their greater capital cost

Indeed but the big numbers fleet wise are in both full sized single and deckers so a nice little windfall if you needed one.

 

[THarris123]

In West of England, all of the Geminis (2005-9) received the refurb. However, few single decks were so treated. Now seems to be that vehicles are getting refurbished on a case by case basis so that the 2009 Eclipses (plus a couple of 2004 ones) were refurbished for the Mendip Explorer routes. Similarly, the 2001/2 ALX B7TLs for newly branded routes in Bristol and for the Bath Spa Uni services were refurbed but the repaints for the Bath service 5 weren't.

Similarly, I believe that Hants & Dorset refurbed most of their Eclipses at the time and the few Geminis (?) but that subsequent arrivals have not been so touched except specific ones (e.g. the Slowcoaster Tridents)

The B7RLEs on service 5 have been refurbed - the 55 reg B7s had the leather stripped out of them and replaced with fabric and the 54 reg B7s had their fabric replaced. Even the solo in Bath that was repainted has had a refurb - now with leather seats.

 

[THarris123]

Something to do with their performance on the motorway, apparently. Would explain why they're now appearing on the X3/X11 & have been kept on the X85/X87. The 18 does well enough with it's regular allocation of Geminis of all creeds at the moment, but the eldest of the bunch (ex-South Yorkshire 53-reg examples) will no doubt be the first to be withdrawn when the time comes...

I presume you mean the 53 reg Geminis will be withdrawn from a particular service and then moved on elsewhere?

 

[THarris123]

As there are so many incidents now, I understand that First are changing all of the overhang wing mirrors over to mirrors closer to the door. This is being rolled out nationwide.

Judging from Facebook it has reached Norwich and a few other places. Its even reached Wells with the Streetdecks' mirrors being changed.

 

[route101]

Something to do with their performance on the motorway, apparently. Would explain why they're now appearing on the X3/X11 & have been kept on the X85/X87. The 18 does well enough with it's regular allocation of Geminis of all creeds at the moment, but the eldest of the bunch (ex-South Yorkshire 53-reg examples) will no doubt be the first to be withdrawn when the time comes...

18 does well thats its mostly deckers , i think caley do a few peak runs on this route .
The 2 could do with deckers .
My local route is 31 which is mostly tridents , streetlites on sunday for some reason and odd gemini .

 

[Strathclyder]

18 does well thats its mostly deckers , i think caley do a few peak runs on this route .
The 2 could do with deckers .
My local route is 31 which is mostly tridents , streetlites on sunday for some reason and odd gemini .

Caledonia are indeed responsible for a few peak-hour runs of the 18, as the E500s used to appear on them from time to time when FiG had them.

You really don't need to tell me that twice, as it's one of my local routes. The odd decker does sometimes pop up (usually a Gemini or Trident), but it's largely in the hands of E200MMCs/E300s nowadays. Decent enough buses, but not really suited for such a intensively busy route. In an ideal world, an even mix of singles & deckers would be the norm for the 2. Unlikely to happen, especially when with the low railway bridge at Kirkwood (Airdrie runs only) which prevents deckers of any height from passing under it...

The 31 is fully subsided by SPT & interworks with the 7A & 65 at Osborne St on Sundays, hence the use of Streetlites.

I presume you mean the 53 reg Geminis will be withdrawn from a particular service and then moved on elsewhere?

Or cascaded to another depot within Glasgow to replace even older deckers, yes. Perhaps a few will be shunted off to other First divisions, like the Tridents before them. But I digress; that won't be happening for a while yet, as even at 14 years old, they've still got plenty of life left in 'em...