First Greater Glasgow

[Haribolover06]

First Bus orders 17 Alexander Dennis next-gen electrics for Bath - routeone

First Bus has ordered 12 Alexander Dennis Enviro200EV next-generation battery-electric buses and five Enviro100EV examples for Bath.

www.route-one.net

First ordering E100EVs and E200EVs, I wonder if they'll start ordering from ADL again and Glasgow might see some ordered considering the integral E400EV is here and has been for nearly 9 months.

Bath do still have the e100 demonstrator i am told.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

First Bus orders 17 Alexander Dennis next-gen electrics for Bath - routeone

First Bus has ordered 12 Alexander Dennis Enviro200EV next-generation battery-electric buses and five Enviro100EV examples for Bath.

www.route-one.net

First ordering E100EVs and E200EVs, I wonder if they'll start ordering from ADL again and Glasgow might see some ordered considering the integral E400EV is here and has been for nearly 9 months.

From a fleet continuity perspective it would make sense to order the E400EV. Glasgow is still predominantly ADL minus the ageing B9TLs, Streetlites and recent repowers.

I can see why First would be trying to steer clear of ADL given the poor build quality of the E200EVs but the new E400EVs have good range and seem like solid enough buses. The recent bailout of the Camelon factory will put significant pressure on First to opt for locally built buses over Yutong so I imagine Glasgow will see ADL stock in some capacity. The question is - just how many.

The B9TLs are ageing as are the E300s which I can’t believe the oldest buses are 14 next year!

 

[Haribolover06]

From a fleet continuity perspective it would make sense to order the E400EV. Glasgow is still predominantly ADL minus the ageing B9TLs, Streetlites and recent repowers.

I can see why First would be trying to steer clear of ADL given the poor build quality of the E200EVs but the new E400EVs have good range and seem like solid enough buses. The recent bailout of the Camelon factory will put significant pressure on First to opt for locally built buses over Yutong so I imagine Glasgow will see ADL stock in some capacity. The question is - just how many.

The B9TLs are ageing as are the E300s which I can’t believe the oldest buses are 14 next year!

remember the e200ev's ordered are the new integral model, not supplied by BYD.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

remember the e200ev's ordered are the new integral model, not supplied by BYD.

Absolutely. Perhaps even more chance First may want opt for them.

 

[92002]

Absolutely. Perhaps even more chance First may want opt for them.

Perhaps they should follow the lead of Stagecoach in Ayrshire who are getting numbers of E409evs manufactured in Scotland at Falkirk who are urgently looking for orders to keep the place open.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

Perhaps they should follow the lead of Stagecoach in Ayrshire who are getting numbers of E409evs manufactured in Scotland at Falkirk who are urgently looking for orders to keep the place open.

It's just your luck where they are built, the 2 for the 747 in Dunfermline are built in Scarborough, depends where the workload ends up for the production line, these buses sat in Camelon for months before they where even delivered to Kilmarnock they where originally on 74 plates.

 

[LT02 NVV]

So guys I’ve noticed some plans for fleet changes recently.

Some more E300s are going to be sent up to Aberdeen.

Scotstoun is getting Solo SRs from Cornwall, and will be getting Streetdeck Repowers too.

 

[camro]

So guys I’ve noticed some plans for fleet changes recently.

Some more E300s are going to be sent up to Aberdeen.

Scotstoun is getting Solo SRs from Cornwall, and will be getting Streetdeck Repowers too.

22 Repowers are set to go to Scotstoun.

The Solos are replacements for the Euro 5 Streetlites, which will be going to Overtown instead to replace some of the old E200s.

 

[route101]

Glasgow must be short of double-deckers. Saw an E300 on the X87 with a full standing load heading up Cathedral St the other day – not the most pleasant journey considering its basically first stop Lenzie.

Are the repowers the solution? Seems odd to be withdrawing buses before the replacements arrive. Has Glasgow just to muddle through for a month or two until more buses arrive? With no new buses confirmed I’d half expected to see some cascades from down south, but not sure what – if anything – is available.

I have noticed mostly streetlites on the 267 and 201 services so Blantyre may be struggling.

 

[Joerf21]

22 Repowers are set to go to Scotstoun.

The Solos are replacements for the Euro 5 Streetlites, which will be going to Overtown instead to replace some of the old E200s.

Do you know when the repowers are expected at scotstown

 

[computerSaysNo]

How do people with bus passes get into Glasgow from Airdrie, Coatbridge and Holytown areas? As I can't see any direct buses other than the 902 for Airdrie and Coatbridge but it's only every hour and is only limited stop. I was just thinking about it compared to Edinburgh; from Musselburgh there's 15 buses an hour to Edinburgh, Dalkeith has a bus every 12 minutes, Gorebridge has a bus every 20 minutes, Bonnyrigg has every 15 minutes, Penicuik has seven an hour, all direct to Edinburgh.

 

[Metal Mickey]

How do people with bus passes get into Glasgow from Airdrie, Coatbridge and Holytown areas? As I can't see any direct buses other than the 902 for Airdrie and Coatbridge but it's only every hour and is only limited stop. I was just thinking about it compared to Edinburgh; from Musselburgh there's 15 buses an hour to Edinburgh, Dalkeith has a bus every 12 minutes, Gorebridge has a bus every 20 minutes, Bonnyrigg has every 15 minutes, Penicuik has seven an hour, all direct to Edinburgh.

Because the train is much quicker and with 8 railway stations in the Monklands area the bus doesn’t stand much of a chance.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Because the train is much quicker and with 8 railway stations in the Monklands area the bus doesn’t stand much of a chance.

Despite the fact that people with bus passes have to pay for the train?

 

[Metal Mickey]

Despite the fact that people with bus passes have to pay for the train?

Yes, for a lot of people the quickest way is the best way and that’s why buses operating from Monklands to Glasgow went into decline over many years.

 

[N1]

It is interesting that most North Lanarkshire express buses are gone, but Ayrshire, Inverclyde and even Cumbernauld still remain, and quite a limited First offering.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Despite the fact that people with bus passes have to pay for the train?

Yes. For most people, even with a free pass. You can spend 20 mins travelling from Airdrie to Glasgow on the train; on the bus, you're probably going to struggle to get to the motorway in that time on the bus. Most people value their time more - it's why Bathgate to Edinburgh train reintroduction/enhancement decimated that market, as did Borders rail between Gala and Edinburgh

It is interesting that most North Lanarkshire express buses are gone, but Ayrshire, Inverclyde and even Cumbernauld still remain, and quite a limited First offering.

Probably because Cumbernauld station is not well located and direct buses can serve the Glasgow market better.

There are often individual circumstances that dictate these things. Most people don't want to spend 45+ mins on a bus - if there's a direct train, it usually wins but if it's a 10 min bus then a wait for a train etc... the direct bus will win.

 

[Metal Mickey]

It is interesting that most North Lanarkshire express buses are gone, but Ayrshire, Inverclyde and even Cumbernauld still remain, and quite a limited First offering.

Arriva Scotland West when managed by Ralph Roberts tried an Airdrie and Coatbridge via Glasgow City Centre to Braehead express not long before selling up to McGill’s but it didn’t last.

Expresses from Wishaw and Motherwell have managed to sustain themselves over the years.

ARRIVA SCOTLAND WEST 3001 GSU347 (M943LYR)

M943LYR was a DAF SB3000 / Van Hool Alizee C49Ft new to Grey-Green of London which was owned by The Cowie Group. Cowie re-branded itself as Arriva, and this coach moved to Arriva The Shires and received Green Line livery and later acquired a cherished plate. It arrived in Scotland and was put to...

flic.kr

With credit to David Devoy, I’ve managed to locate this photo of the X70 operated by a coach in Coatbridge.

 

[LT02 NVV]

I have noticed mostly streetlites on the 267 and 201 services so Blantyre may be struggling.

I wonder how Aberdeen feels that they’re getting more of Glasgow’s battered E300s, while their Streetlites go to other places like Glasgow (I know some are in England, but Glasgow has been getting most of them).

 

[Spsf3232]

I wonder how Aberdeen feels that they’re getting more of Glasgow’s battered E300s, while their Streetlites go to other places like Glasgow (I know some are in England, but Glasgow has been getting most of them).

Probably happy that the streetlites are leaving. Anything else is an improvement

 

[computerSaysNo]

Probably happy that the streetlites are leaving. Anything else is an improvement

I don't really understand why Streetlites are so hated by drivers. As a passenger I don't like when they rattle but drivers would have the time to go round and sellotape/bluetack/stick foam pads to the areas causing the rattles, would they not? And in terms of engine, whenever I've been on one which hasn't been derated/on limp mode, it's performance has been absolutely fine, comparable to a standard E200 and to be honest almost comparable to an E300. Given the same maintenance routine I wouldn't think a Streetlite would be any more likely to be in limp mode than an E300, would it?

 

[Metal Mickey]

As a passenger I don't like when they rattle but drivers would have the time to go round and sellotape/bluetack/stick foam pads to the areas causing the rattles

I can’t say I’ve ever known drivers to do that.

And I would say, although not perfect, that the E300 is a far better vehicle than the Streetlite.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I don't really understand why Streetlites are so hated by drivers. As a passenger I don't like when they rattle but drivers would have the time to go round and sellotape/bluetack/stick foam pads to the areas causing the rattles, would they not? And in terms of engine, whenever I've been on one which hasn't been derated/on limp mode, it's performance has been absolutely fine, comparable to a standard E200 and to be honest almost comparable to an E300. Given the same maintenance routine I wouldn't think a Streetlite would be any more likely to be in limp mode than an E300, would it?

My understanding from folks who have driven them...

The set up on delivery was quite bad. The gearboxes usually poorly mapped so lots of very short shifting so you had lots of clattering up and down. Also, braking was an issue with some retarders kicking on at the first tap of the brakes. Brakes are still a bit of an issue but they are better. My local operator is a First opco and I have a clear memory of a shocking run on the back road between Bristol and Bath. That said, a year later, it was clear on a run from Bristol to Clevedon that mods had been done. Also, performance is dependent on the engine spec and manufacturer.

Issues with limp mode can be a consequence of maintenance, but same with any vehicle.

FWIW, as a passenger, I think Streetlites (shorter ones) are generally a bit better than the comparative e200. Clearly, a Streetlite is not going to be as good as most heavyweights (e.g. B7RLE) in terms of ride quality - that said, one of the worst journeys I ever experienced was a First Omnicity which was horrendous.

We're now looking at the oldest Streetlites (the early WF versions) being 14 years old so they've been more durable than many suggested.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I wonder how Aberdeen feels that they’re getting more of Glasgow’s battered E300s, while their Streetlites go to other places like Glasgow (I know some are in England, but Glasgow has been getting most of them).

Glad to be rid, E300s are a pretty solid product overall comapred to streetlites

I don't really understand why Streetlites are so hated by drivers. As a passenger I don't like when they rattle but drivers would have the time to go round and sellotape/bluetack/stick foam pads to the areas causing the rattles, would they not?

If this was an effective solution no bus would make any rattles or banging what so ever, thats down to build quality and theres nothing the driver could do to fix them

And in terms of engine, whenever I've been on one which hasn't been derated/on limp mode, it's performance has been absolutely fine, comparable to a standard E200 and to be honest almost comparable to an E300.

They’re have 4 cylinder englines, an engine so small it shouldnt be fitted to a bus, the only reason a streetlite is fast is due to the lightweight build , which causes rattling banging and loose parts

Given the same maintenance routine I wouldn't think a Streetlite would be any more likely to be in limp mode than an E300, would it?

yes it would

 

[camro]

I drove 63208 on route training in July and I didn't think it was all that bad. I've certainly taken out worse E200 MMCs since then which can also have the issue of hasty retarders but maybe I need to be a Blantyre boy to realise how bad the Streetlites are in general. 208 pulled away nice and quick but again the brakes were not making my day.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Glad to be rid, E300s are a pretty solid product overall comapred to streetlites

I wouldn't exactly call the Ex-Glasgow E300s solid underneath... The outgoing Streetlites are better in that regard, but the running gear itself is better on the E300s.

I wonder how Aberdeen feels that they’re getting more of Glasgow’s battered E300s, while their Streetlites go to other places like Glasgow (I know some are in England, but Glasgow has been getting most of them).

Aberdeen have been wanting to standardise the diesel single deck fleet on the E300s for quite some time. When looked after they're very reliable and cheap to run, albeit since the fitting of the Euro 6 exhaust systems they've been plagued by emissions lights. The Streetlites in comparison are not as reliable and not really suited to the Aberdeen network with their cramped interiors.

I drove 63208 on route training in July and I didn't think it was all that bad. I've certainly taken out worse E200 MMCs since then which can also have the issue of hasty retarders but maybe I need to be a Blantyre boy to realise how bad the Streetlites are in general. 208 pulled away nice and quick but again the brakes were not making my day.

To be fair 63208 is one of the better ones. The Streetlites vary depending on the gearbox programme as not all of them are the same, it tends to be that you either get one that's fast and jumpy or sluggish but less jumpy.

Glasgow have actually done not too bad with the Ex-Aberdeen Streetlites. Most of the ones they've received are the better ones of the batch. 63209 in particuarly was very good. In contrast Halifax getting 63194 and 63196 is rather unfortunate for them.

 

[Arriva Fan]

At the risk of going off topic, having driven First Scotstoun Depots E300 & StreetLites, the StreetLite is a much better drive. Given the choice, I'd take the StreetLite.

The Citaro & Citaro K still the best Single Decker available.

 

[Spsf3232]

At the risk of going off topic, having driven First Scotstoun Depots E300 & StreetLites, the StreetLite is a much better drive. Given the choice, I'd take the StreetLite.

The Citaro & Citaro K still the best Single Decker available.

You must be the only driver I've ever heard say that. streetlites are the worst thing ever to come out of the bus industry

 

[Busman84]

Horrible vehicles. Brakes/Retarder setup rather harsh. Passengers think the drivers standard of driving is very poor. Like all wee wheeled vehicles the ride quality is poor. Then you have the adjust steering where engine must be completely turned off just to move the steering. The steering too also heavy.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I’ve noticed the ADL E400EV demonstrator has started to stretch its legs again after being confined to the 5 in recent months. It’s been on the 38 and 61.

Glasgow tends to confine its non standard buses to the 5 for driver training purposes. 70101 was kept strictly to the 5 during its time on loan as was 33693.

Could be looking too into it but I wonder if with the plans to keep ADL Camelon opened - Glasgow has been put under some pressure to source locally and plans to order more ADL E400EVs?

 

[voidwxrranty]

Could be looking too into it but I wonder if with the plans to keep ADL Camelon opened - Glasgow has been put under some pressure to source locally and plans to order more ADL E400EVs?

iirc if Glasgow get new EV’s it’ll be Wright products. Kites and Lectroliners.