First Greater Glasgow

[PaulMc7]

Other than a further walk from the Depot there probably is no reason that the second stop in Victoria Drive coukd not be used for a changeover. Any stop in Dumbarton Road are not really suitable.

The stops that the 1C and the 2 use are fine as it's easy enough for other buses to stop at them to be fair. It's just the 3 towards Drumchapel that could do with a swap. The X4 is the only one with a bit of a walk for changing over but the drivers could just use the 1s along if needs be.

On another note, I've noticed an awful lot of double deckers on the 9/9A. I've just looked at the app and every single 9 or 9A tracking towards Penilee/Braehead or Paisley is a double decker. There are also more towards the City Centre on top of that.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

On another note, I've noticed an awful lot of double deckers on the 9/9A. I've just looked at the app and every single 9 or 9A tracking towards Penilee/Braehead or Paisley is a double decker. There are also more towards the City Centre on top of that.

There have been a lot more B9TLs appearing on the 38s, particularly the 61 branded ones.

Before Caledonia opened - it seemed like First were much stricter with what appeared on which route. Now it seems just about anything can turn up. It’ll be interesting to see what happens when the E200EVs arrive at Scotstoun if they’ll be kept strictly to the 2 and 3 or if we’ll still see a mix of deckers on these routes.

 

[PaulMc7]

There have been a lot more B9TLs appearing on the 38s, particularly the 61 branded ones.

Before Caledonia opened - it seemed like First were much stricter with what appeared on which route. Now it seems just about anything can turn up. It’ll be interesting to see what happens when the E200EVs arrive at Scotstoun if they’ll be kept strictly to the 2 and 3 or if we’ll still see a mix of deckers on these routes.

I'd imagine that the 2 will certainly still have double deckers at some point given how busy they can get. Even when it was every 8 minutes before Covid, single deckers were full and leaving people at bus stops regularly. I'd certainly hope it goes back to every 10 minutes as soon as Scotstoun has the drivers for it.

I'd also hope the 3 gets a double decker or two as well. On the current every 15 minute frequency, they get full very easily at peaks and it doesn't help that it's one of the most unreliable services out of the entire network.

Some of this particularly in the west end isn't First's fault at the minute to be fair to them. The Byres Road roadworks have a long time to go and more cable work has been getting done towards Thornwood and through Scotstoun and up Queen Victoria Drive and Lincoln Avenue. On Monday, I got a 3 from Lincoln Avenue at Alderman Road and by the time we got onto Dumbarton Road, we had been through 3 sets of temporary lights.

 

[92002]

I'd imagine that the 2 will certainly still have double deckers at some point given how busy they can get. Even when it was every 8 minutes before Covid, single deckers were full and leaving people at bus stops regularly. I'd certainly hope it goes back to every 10 minutes as soon as Scotstoun has the drivers for it.

I'd also hope the 3 gets a double decker or two as well. On the current every 15 minute frequency, they get full very easily at peaks and it doesn't help that it's one of the most unreliable services out of the entire network.

Some of this particularly in the west end isn't First's fault at the minute to be fair to them. The Byres Road roadworks have a long time to go and more cable work has been getting done towards Thornwood and through Scotstoun and up Queen Victoria Drive and Lincoln Avenue. On Monday, I got a 3 from Lincoln Avenue at Alderman Road and by the time we got onto Dumbarton Road, we had been through 3 sets of temporary lights.

Perhaps the solution is to give Caledonia some of the E200ev in exchange for E400evs to use on the odd 2 and 3. A mix for both woukd work a lot better for all

 

[PaulMc7]

Perhaps the solution is to give Caledonia some of the E200ev in exchange for E400evs to use on the odd 2 and 3. A mix for both woukd work a lot better for all

I fully agree although you'd definitely need a lot of spare buses because the E400EVs wouldn't get near lasting a day's service on the 2 or 3. The new version of the E400EV even if it did achieve its top potential range of 260 miles per charge still wouldn't be enough but it would certainly be a lot better than the version of the E400EV First currently have. The only plus point I guess is that it's easy to swap out buses for the 2 and 3 given that they both go close to the depot.

Hopefully we end up with a lot of Yutongs as their range is significantly better than anything we have now and hopefully First find a viable, higher range double decker with that so that they don't have to solely rely on E400EVs.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I fully agree although you'd definitely need a lot of spare buses because the E400EVs wouldn't get near lasting a day's service on the 2 or 3. The new version of the E400EV even if it did achieve its top potential range of 260 miles per charge still wouldn't be enough but it would certainly be a lot better than the version of the E400EV First currently have. The only plus point I guess is that it's easy to swap out buses for the 2 and 3 given that they both go close to the depot.

Hopefully we end up with a lot of Yutongs as their range is significantly better than anything we have now and hopefully First find a viable, higher range double decker with that so that they don't have to solely rely on E400EVs.

Agreed. I don’t think the E400EVs would have the range for the 2 or 3.

I think it would make sense to make the 77 electric with E400EVs and debrand the current 77 branded E400MMCs that see regular service on the 2/3 be used permanently along side the E200EVs. That way the E200EVs can stretch their legs on the 16 and possibly the 8 too.

 

[PaulMc7]

Agreed. I don’t think the E400EVs would have the range for the 2 or 3.

I think it would make sense to make the 77 electric with E400EVs and debrand the current 77 branded E400MMCs that see regular service on the 2/3 be used permanently along side the E200EVs. That way the E200EVs can stretch their legs on the 16 and possibly the 8.

That would make the most sense to be honest. The 16 would be fine with E200EVs and I'd imagine the fact the 8 doesn't run full length for all of the journeys might just about help them just about get through a full day. The interworking with the 8 and 16 also helps with that.

I also think the new version of E400EVs would comfortably last on the 77 all day right up to the last journey given that it would be before 11pm and the 77 route isn't massive in terms of mileage. If the 6 is to be predominantly single decker then Yutongs would have to come in for that given the required mileage. The E400s pop up everywhere now and realistically only have 4-5 good years left.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

That would make the most sense to be honest. The 16 would be fine with E200EVs and I'd imagine the fact the 8 doesn't run full length for all of the journeys might just about help them just about get through a full day. The interworking with the 8 and 16 also helps with that.

I also think the new version of E400EVs would comfortably last on the 77 all day right up to the last journey given that it would be before 11pm and the 77 route isn't massive in terms of mileage. If the 6 is to be predominantly single decker then Yutongs would have to come in for that given the required mileage. The E400s pop up everywhere now and realistically only have 4-5 good years left.

In an ideal world Scotstoun would have got an order of Yutongs to be used on the 2, 3, 6, 8 and 16. With the low height E400s ageing I imagine they’ll revert back to singles eventually so the Yutongs would be a good replacement.

 

[PaulMc7]

In an ideal world Scotstoun would have got an order of Yutongs to be used on the 2, 3, 6, 8 and 16. With the low height E400s ageing I imagine they’ll revert back to singles eventually so the Yutongs would be a good replacement.

I fully agree. The E200EVs are just dreadful in comparison to the Yutongs in terms of mileage. So many of First's routes are long enough to warrant going for Yutongs constantly.

 

[stuart81]

@GusB Could there be a thread on potential FiG vehicle changes etc so we don't have to go through pages of daily discussion of the same thing, it's beyond tiring now

 

[PaulMc7]

@GusB Could there be a thread on potential FiG vehicle changes etc so we don't have to go through pages of daily discussion of the same thing, it's beyond tiring now

If we start having individual threads for vehicle changes of companies there would be far too many threads to moderate. Vehicle movements have probably been the biggest discussion point of this entire thread from the beginning but that's natural given the amount of ins and outs in recent years.

I don't have much interest in every post either but I think it's daft have multiple threads for the same company. I'm not even a fan of having separate ones for service suggestions. Everything under one thread is enough.

 

[92002]

I fully agree. The E200EVs are just dreadful in comparison to the Yutongs in terms of mileage. So many of First's routes are long enough to warrant going for Yutongs constantly.

Interesting that First are concentrating on BYD singles and double decks. Whilst McGill's have Yutongs, both of which come from China. Although the BYD is produced in Hungary and bodied in Falkirk.

Stagecoach are in the process of getting sizeable numbers of both single and double decks from Volvo.

Somewhere in there, there are choices in vehicle daily mileages expected. As well as cost.

The Volvo seems to be also favoured in London.

Other companies in Europe also have MAN, Renault/Iveco and Mercedes.

One sure way of extending daily mileage would be to install fast charging facilities at terminal points with overnight charging at depots.

 

[PaulMc7]

Interesting that First are concentrating on BVD Singles and Double Decks. Whilst McGills have Yutongs.Both of which come from China. Although the BVD is produced in Hungary and bodied in Falkirk.

Stagecoach are in the process of getting sizeable numbers of both single and Double Decks from Volvo.

Somewhere in there there are choices in vehicle daily mileages expected. As well as cost.

The Volvo seems to be also favoured in London.

Other companies in Europe also have MAN, Renault/Iveco and Mercedes.

One sure way of extending daily mileage would be to install fast charging facilities at Terminal points. With overnight charging at Depots

Charging points would be great but the problem is they'd also need every single bus to run on time and that's impossible in Glasgow with how things are. It would also require more recovery time on a lot of routes too.

 

[GusB]

@GusB Could there be a thread on potential FiG vehicle changes etc so we don't have to go through pages of daily discussion of the same thing, it's beyond tiring now

If you feel that a separate thread would be better for discussing vehicle changes, feel free to start one. A "what if" thread for potential fleet changes is no less worthy than one for service changes.

If we start having individual threads for vehicle changes of companies there would be far too many threads to moderate

Moderators will determine their own workload, thank you!

 

[Jarcoed]

Just noticed 67890 on the 34 today. I am assuming it is on loan to Caledonia Depot.

 

[PaulMc7]

Are First still in the process of repainting everything into the urban livery? If so, how many buses are now into it?

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Are First still in the process of repainting everything into the urban livery? If so, how many buses are now into it?

The focus seems to be on de-branding buses which makes sense.

They seem to be making good progress with Scotstoun’s E300s.

 

[PaulMc7]

The focus seems to be on de-branding buses which makes sense.

They seem to be making good progress with Scotstoun’s E300s.

From my recent uses of the 2 and 3 I certainly agree regarding the progress. Bustimes.org is handy to check but it hasn't been updated since the 4th. It's normally okay for being accurate with liveries compared to what vehicles are on what services.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

From my recent uses of the 2 and 3 I certainly agree regarding the progress. Bustimes.org is handy to check but it hasn't been updated since the 4th. It's normally okay for being accurate with liveries compared to what vehicles are on what services.

I wonder what the script is with bustimes. Perhaps they’ve stopped updating it. I hope not as it’s a good indication of what buses are where.

 

[PaulMc7]

I wonder what the script is with bustimes. Perhaps they’ve stopped updating it. I hope not as it’s a good indication of what buses are where.

Other than a couple of very obvious wrong data entries for what buses are on which services, it's generally been pretty accurate for First since I've been aware of the site.

 

[Brimfulofasha]

Well, I used the Airport Service for the first time. Though, despite the single tickets being advertised on the website and app as...

One single journey to or from Glasgow Airport from anywhere in the First Glasgow network*

*limited to one additional trip before or after boarding Glasgow Airport Express.

...it came up red when trying to scan on the 240 to/from Parkhead. One of the drivers suggested they don't do those type of tickets. Both required me to purchase another ticket. A bit frustrating! Does it only work on No.1 services?

 

[sannox]

Well, I used the Airport Service for the first time. Though, despite the single tickets being advertised on the website and app as...

...it came up red when trying to scan on the 240 to/from Parkhead. One of the drivers suggested they don't do those type of tickets. Both required me to purchase another ticket. A bit frustrating! Does it only work on No.1 services?

I'd query that with First and try to get a refund. It's pretty clear as you say and a journey from Parkhead should be covered.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

On another note, I've noticed an awful lot of double deckers on the 9/9A. I've just looked at the app and every single 9 or 9A tracking towards Penilee/Braehead or Paisley is a double decker. There are also more towards the City Centre on top of that.

Deckers that normally operate pollok routes are seemingly on the 9/A and the Singles that do the 9/a are on pollok route due to the recent vandalism

 

[PaulMc7]

Deckers that normally operate pollok routes are seemingly on the 9/A and the Singles that do the 9/a are on pollok route due to the recent vandalism

It's a smart move that sadly shouldn't be needed. Even today when I looked earlier, every 9/9A appeared to be a double decker. My driver on the 3 on Monday said at least 6 buses had been targeted by idiots and that's just the ones he knew about.

 

[Jarcoed]

The Enviro200 EV's being branded for the 7 wasn't a clever idea as I saw atleast 3 of them on the 34 today and another one on the 43.

Also, I realise that Caledonia has only got around 60 single deckers. I would hope to see Scotstoun E300's move to Caledonia to support routes that don't need double deckers as there is a bad habit of single deckers ending up on busy routes like the 10 and the 75 for example.

 

[PaulMc7]

The Enviro200 EVs being branded for the 7 wasn't a clever idea as I saw at least 3 of them on the 34 today and another one on the 43.

My 34 earlier was one branded for the 7. The only branded buses that stayed mostly strict on the services they were branded for were the ones for the 9/9A until the current situation in Pollok has forced the switch around of allocated vehicles. Obviously, some did stray from the 9/9A on occasion but compared to other branded buses it wasn't anywhere near as bad.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Branding just doesn’t work for Glasgow hence why they have abandoned it. They tried it in the Overground days which didn’t work either and it’s only been made worse by the fact that Cumbernauld/Larkfield and Parkhead all merged into one big depot.

I see a lot of 9/9A branded E200EVs on the 46. It’ll be good when they are all in just one livery.

 

[PaulMc7]

Branding just doesn’t work for Glasgow hence why they have abandoned it. They tried it in the Overground days which didn’t work either and it’s only been made worse by the fact that Cumbernauld/Larkfield and Parkhead all merged into one big depot.

I see a lot of 9/9A branded E200EVs on the 46. It’ll be good when they are all in just one livery.

I think the main problem was them branding the full vehicle requirement of a service instead of just doing some of it. The likes of the 38 and 75 had 2 sets of vehicles branded for them when the first sets of E400EVs got here, while both were on reduced frequencies. Even just with the E400MMCs, there were far too many buses for the 38 and 75.

Having nothing branded will certainly help with transfers too. It must be slightly confusing for some people in Lanarkshire to still have buses branded for the likes of the 34/34A and 38 out on a daily basis when they've possibly not heard of those services or ever used or seen them.

 

[E400Lover101]

In an ideal world Scotstoun would have got an order of Yutongs to be used on the 2, 3, 6, 8 and 16. With the low height E400s ageing I imagine they’ll revert back to singles eventually so the Yutongs would be a good replacement.

If Scotstoun opt for the decision for Double Decker Yutongs for the 6 specifically and are Taller than 13" 9' There is a chance they'd have to re-route the 6 via Eaglesham or they'd have to do some engineering works for the East Kilbride Line at Busby.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Apr 2023 ==

Just noticed 67890 on the 34 today. I am assuming it is on loan to Caledonia Depot.

I'd seen SK63 AUH (67890) on the 57 today at Minard Road.

 

[jagardner1984]

I think the main problem was them branding the full vehicle requirement of a service instead of just doing some of it. The likes of the 38 and 75 had 2 sets of vehicles branded for them when the first sets of E400EVs got here, while both were on reduced frequencies. Even just with the E400MMCs, there were far too many buses for the 38 and 75.

Having nothing branded will certainly help with transfers too. It must be slightly confusing for some people in Lanarkshire to still have buses branded for the likes of the 34/34A and 38 out on a daily basis when they've possibly not heard of those services or ever used or seen them.

Obviously wouldn’t be as heavy in terms of branding - but surely something to be said for magnetic vinyls ?

Presumably they think there is some value in advertising the route or whatever - but surely advertising the wrong route is potentially more confusing.

Feels like in 2023 there should be a more flexible way of achieving this - could they not just add more framing as per the advertising and drop in the most relevant branding on a weekly / monthly / whatever basis ?

Obviously you will always have oddities of buses sent to cover for whatever reason, but for the main part ….