First Greater Glasgow

[experts]

Is there a thing with the cancellation feature testing that only one of the Glasgow depots can test it at a time because it certainly seems to be that way? Scotstoun services showing as cancelled again today but nothing from Caledonia after them being the ones testing it recently with no Scotstoun services showing as cancelled.

Another thing on the cancellations too, Dumbarton don't even seem to have tested it once yet so I'd be surprised if we have it fully up and running everywhere too anytime soon.

Dumbarton never have a bus off the road and have pretty much a full quota of staff as do Overtown. So I doubt you’d see much on them for cancellations.

It’s also worth realising some days depots don’t have much off the road.

 

[PaulMc7]

Dumbarton never have a bus off the road and have pretty much a full quota of staff as do Overtown. So I doubt you’d see much on them for cancellations.

I do agree on that to be fair although Overtown have used it a fair bit among the testing especially for the 240. The 1s sometimes can be missing a bus here and there but they're very reliable for running most of the time. Unfortunately they run late a lot other than the morning peak which I've always found strange. They're 3-4 mins late in the morning at most whereas the evening can be wildly different.

Scotstoun, Caledonia and Blantyre seem to have some days where things have been so much better then some absolute shockers especially Caledonia. There was a day last week with 8 buses out of 9 at Kirkintilloch showing as cancelled and from the map they were actually cancelled. The X3 also seems to be far worse now too.

The 7/7A, 57/57A and 60/60A also seem to be prone to an awful time whereas at Scotstoun it's usually the 2, 3 and 6 because of the amount of drivers needed for all 3 of them.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

First Glasgow are the biggest company in the city yet they don't accept smart card tickets. They are the biggest block to integrated ticketing
Passes for all these operators can also be loaded on to subway and scotrail smartcards

 

[lastbus]

I do agree on that to be fair although Overtown have used it a fair bit among the testing especially for the 240. The 1s sometimes can be missing a bus here and there but they're very reliable for running most of the time. Unfortunately they run late a lot other than the morning peak which I've always found strange. They're 3-4 mins late in the morning at most whereas the evening can be wildly different.

Scotstoun, Caledonia and Blantyre seem to have some days where things have been so much better then some absolute shockers especially Caledonia. There was a day last week with 8 buses out of 9 at Kirkintilloch showing as cancelled and from the map they were actually cancelled. The X3 also seems to be far worse now too.

The 7/7A, 57/57A and 60/60A also seem to be prone to an awful time whereas at Scotstoun it's usually the 2, 3 and 6 because of the amount of drivers needed for all 3 of them.

You’ll find it would’ve been a Blantyre 240. Overtown very rarely have a bus off for no staff. Overtown have also been loaning drivers to Blantyre lately so are doing well for staff these days.

 

[PaulMc7]

You’ll find it would’ve been a Blantyre 240. Overtown very rarely have a bus off for no staff. Overtown have also been loaning drivers to Blantyre lately so are doing well for staff these days.

Do Blantyre do the 240 during the day too? I'd seen a few peak cancellations but there was a few that were around the 11am-1pm range.

Are management at Dumbarton and Overtown just that much better or is it something else? Considering the number of drivers rumoured overall that First lost in total it's so weird that 3 depots are so much more affected.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Do Blantyre do the 240 during the day too? I'd seen a few peak cancellations but there was a few that were around the 11am-1pm range.

Yes. A few months ago the 240 had 7 Blantyre workings and 13 Overtown workings, but it may have changed since.

I'm not sure what peak/off-peak has to do with things. There aren't that many "peak" workings at First Glasgow in general. There are maybe 10-15 extra buses scheduled at peak times - someone may be able to provide a more accurate figure. And the chances are, the driver duties which are scheduled to operate the peak workings, will do off-peak work beforehand or afterwards anyway.

As much as first, peak and last buses should be prioritised, if a duty doesn't have a driver allocated, it can't operate. It's as simple as that.

 

[PaulMc7]

Yes. A few months ago the 240 had 7 Blantyre workings and 13 Overtown workings, but it may have changed since.

I'm not sure what peak/off-peak has to do with things. There aren't that many "peak" workings at First Glasgow in general. There are maybe 10-15 extra buses scheduled at peak times - someone may be able to provide a more accurate figure. And the chances are, the driver duties which are scheduled to operate the peak workings, will do off-peak work beforehand or afterwards anyway.

As much as first, peak and last buses should be prioritised, if a duty doesn't have a driver allocated, it can't operate. It's as simple as that.

I used the word "peak" more to refer to the times of the day for cancellations more than anything else. The morning peak seems to be running a lot more smoothly these days but 4-5pm onwards can be absolutely horrible for reliability sometimes.

So far today the only cancelled services actually showing on the app seem to be 240s and 266s

 

[JumpinTrainz]

BYD ADL and Yutong in First Bus Scotland 74 EV order - routeone

First Bus has confirmed orders for 74 further battery-electric single-deck buses for its remaining fleets in Scotland.

www.route-one.net

The BYD ADL partnership will build 50 Enviro200EV examples for First Glasgow’s Scotstoun depot. Pelican Bus and Coach will supply 24 Yutong E12 models to First Aberdeen. The latter will be the first vehicles from Yutong for First in Scotland.

First has committed £35m to the 74 buses and their associated infrastructure, with the BYD ADL batch accounting for £19.7m and the Yutong deliveries £8.4m. In addition, £4.8m will be invested in Scotstoun and £2.1m in Aberdeen to install rapid charging points. That work is expected to take 12 months to complete, with the first buses to arrive in 2023.

A further £18.6m from the first round of the Scottish Zero Emission Bus challenge fund is going towards the vehicles and their infrastructure.

Completion of the delivery will see 50% of the First Aberdeen fleet become zero-emission. The Yutongs will operate there alongside two batches of Wrightbus StreetDeck Hydroliner hydrogen fuel cell-electric double-deckers. The 50 BYD ADL buses that form part of the latest order will take First’s operation in Glasgow to 40% battery-electric in conjunction with extensive work at its Caledonia depot.

First Bus Scotland Managing Director Duncan Cameron says the operator is “proud” of the progress it has already made on decarbonisation. The latest order represents a further significant step on the group’s quest to have an entirely zero-emission fleet by 2035. It follows hot on the heels of a deal struck with Wrightbus for 193 battery-electric buses for First Bus fleets in England.

Mr Cameron adds that modal shift will allow zero-emission buses to have a greater impact on emissions and air quality. “These state-of-the-art electric vehicles will provide a more pleasant journey for passengers, and we hope that they will encourage more people living in these cities to leave their cars behind in favour of bus travel.”

These buses can’t be for the 2 and 3 as expected surely? Do the E200EVs have the range for that?

 

[Jarcoed]

50 BYD ADL Enviro200 EV for Scotstoun

"The BYD ADL partnership will build 50 Enviro200EV examples for First Glasgow’s Scotstoun depot. Pelican Bus and Coach will supply 24 Yutong E12 models to First Aberdeen. The latter will be the first vehicles from Yutong for First in Scotland. "

Link: https://www.route-one.net/news/byd-adl-and-yutong-in-first-bus-scotland-74-ev-order/

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Sep 2022 ==

BYD ADL and Yutong in First Bus Scotland 74 EV order - routeone

First Bus has confirmed orders for 74 further battery-electric single-deck buses for its remaining fleets in Scotland.

www.route-one.net

These buses can’t be for the 2 and 3 as expected surely? Do the E200EVs have the range for that?

They manage the 46 fine and that is a long route to be fair (approx 1h 40m), the 2 is roughly the same journey time

 

[PaulMc7]

The problem with the 2 and 3 is the length of time they operate for and with current frequencies they wouldn't cope capacity wise either. I had an E400 on the 2 this morning and it was full at Scotstoun and another double decker was behind it and close to full too.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The problem with the 2 and 3 is the length of time they operate for and with current frequencies they wouldn't cope capacity wise either. I had an E400 on the 2 this morning and it was full at Scotstoun and another double decker was behind it and close to full too.

First have always favoured singles for the 2 even dating back to the 62 days. While it’s seen deckers throughout the years I don’t think it’s ever had deckers ordered from new for the route. It’s always seen new singles which I have never understood as the route is busy and has been busy throughout its long history. The frequency was recently cut back and since Covid it’s saw mainly E400s and B9TLs.

The E200EVs have less capacity than an E300. I’m quite disappointed. I wish they’d have opted for Yutongs E12s or indeed deckers. I’m not sure how it’ll work.

 

[PaulMc7]

First have always favoured singles for the 2 even dating back to the 62 days. While it’s seen deckers throughout the years I don’t think it’s ever had deckers ordered from new for the route. It’s always seen new singles which I have never understood as the route is busy and has been busy throughout its long history. The frequency was recently cut back and since Covid it’s saw mainly E400s and B9TLs.

The E200EVs have less capacity than an E300. I’m quite disappointed. I wish they’d have opted for Yutongs E12s or indeed deckers. I’m not sure how it’ll work.

Here's hoping the Yutongs going to Aberdeen is just a tester for future plans for Glasgow because they're definitely a good option.

The only way I see E200EVs working well is if they're balanced out with double deckers. The 3 can barely cope being mostly singles on a 15 min frequency too and the 6 route is very long too so it's definitely not clear what the plan is so far.

I do think more cuts will come at some point though so the network could look a bit different by then.

 

[route101]

The problem with the 2 and 3 is the length of time they operate for and with current frequencies they wouldn't cope capacity wise either. I had an E400 on the 2 this morning and it was full at Scotstoun and another double decker was behind it and close to full too.

Singles only work well if its high frequency and are realiable.

 

[PaulMc7]

Singles only work well if its high frequency and are realiable.

Unfortunately, services haven't been further from reliable than they have now. Even if everything ran, buses would still be mega late at times as much as I don't think it’s First's fault to be fair.

Car traffic is through the roof and the amount of roadworks is horrendous.

 

[Scott mac]

50 BYD ADL Enviro200 EV for Scotstoun

"The BYD ADL partnership will build 50 Enviro200EV examples for First Glasgow’s Scotstoun depot. Pelican Bus and Coach will supply 24 Yutong E12 models to First Aberdeen. The latter will be the first vehicles from Yutong for First in Scotland. "

Link: https://www.route-one.net/news/byd-adl-and-yutong-in-first-bus-scotland-74-ev-order/

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Sep 2022 ==


They manage the 46 fine and that is a long route to be fair (approx 1h 40m), the 2 is roughly the same journey time

I wonder where the so called experts are who said First Glasgow are definitely getting the Yutongs.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Car traffic is through the roof and the amount of roadworks is horrendous.

Which the less then adequate Enviro200 EV wont help reduce; in fact it could have the opposite effect.

 

[PaulMc7]

Which the less then adequate Enviro200 EV wont help reduce, infact it could have the opposite effect

I fully agree with you. I don't see bus use bouncing back too much more than it has especially with the driver shortages. Since the summer break, my work bus has got far busier but less people working from home fully and the schools have caused that. Off peak is still horrendous.

 

[Joerf21]

I can't see First Glasgow ordering Yutongs, when ADL has received an order for 50 electric buses for delivery in spring 2024

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I can't see First Glasgow ordering Yutongs, when ADL has received an order for 50 electric buses for delivery in spring 2024

Once the new E200EVs are ordered I’d imagine there will be a surplus of E300s. Now that FSE won’t be the dumping ground of buses I’d imagine most will go down South or due to their conversions to Euro 6 they may cascade the E200MMCs which were delivered as Euro 6 and didn’t require government funding.

There’s still routes like 'the One' which could be upgraded to Yutongs given its length and unsuitability for deckers. There’s also Lanarkshire routes. Never say never.

 

[Volvodart]

If they said they were replacing the Euro 6 emission converted E300s with the 50 new electric single deckers in the application they made, they would be free of the 5 year requirement to keep the E300s.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Once the new E200EVs are ordered I’d imagine there will be a surplus of E300s. Now that FSE won’t be the dumping ground of buses I’d imagine most will go down South or due to their conversions to Euro 6 they may cascade the E200MMCs which were delivered as Euro 6 and didn’t require government funding.

There’s still routes like 'the One' which could be upgraded to Yutongs given its length and unsuitability for deckers. There’s also Lanarkshire routes. Never say never.

What’s guaranteed is that some other dumping area of First will get old stock.

If First is still around in the city in 10 years I’ll be surprized.

 

[PaulMc7]

I think Greater Glasgow would be one of the last areas First would sell given how much of a money maker it's been to be honest.

On another note, the first day of cancellation testing for Dumbarton services seems to be here. I've noticed a 1, 1B and 206s showing as cancelled already.

In fact, as far as I've seen today so far it's only Caledonia based services not showing as cancelled.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

I think Greater Glasgow would be one of the last areas First would sell given how much of a money maker it's been to be honest.

On another note, the first day of cancellation testing for Dumbarton services seems to be here. I've noticed a 1, 1B and 206s showing as cancelled already.

In fact, as far as I've seen today so far it's only Caledonia based services not showing as cancelled.

That will only last as long as the current regime is maintained, as in no franchising of buses within the SPT area or forced changes of ownership for any reason.

 

[PaulMc7]

That will only last as long as the current regime is maintained, as in no franchising of buses within the SPT area or forced changes of ownership for any reason.

Unless a magic money tree appears or we get politicians who actually know what running a bus company involves I highly doubt anything changes.

 

[route101]

There will be change at some point. Is the 267 all double decker now?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Volvo B7RLEs 69038/39/42/67 have transferred to First Aberdeen.

 

[PaulMc7]

There will be change at some point. Is the 267 all double decker now?

I wouldn't say it's all double decker but it definitely seems to be more double decker than single decker now. It definitely seems to be one of the busiest Lanarkshire routes though so it's definitely warranted.

Something I do wonder is how First choose what routes to train new drivers on and what percentage of cancellations are known before the day because some routes definitely get hammered compared to others now. The 6A currently has 4 buses in a row cancelled beyond Anniesland to Drumchapel coming up with 3 of them showing as cancelled for the full route from the City Centre.

The one thing I will say though, with Scotstoun especially, the use of the cancellation feature testing has got much more accurate since it began. If something shows as cancelled it very rarely isn't now whereas it was a bit of a mess at first.

 

[Jarcoed]

I wonder where the so called experts are who said First Glasgow are definitely getting the Yutongs.

I always doubted there would be Yutongs, considering First Glasgow have always favoured ADL showing the last decade worth of orders have all been ADL, I think they will continue to order from them in future.

Personally, if I were First, I would've ordered Enviro400 EV's instead if these are for the 2 and 3 (most likely the case anyways).

 

[Joerf21]

Big mistake if first have bought the single deckers for the 2, myself i am fed up been packed on like sardines in a can at peak times, will drive customers away from being uncomfertable

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Big mistake if first have bought the single deckers for the 2, myself i am fed up been packed on like sardines in a can at peak times, will drive customers away from being uncomfertable

The majority of there useless directorship/management has driven both Drivers & Passengers away over the years, the private motor car and an assortment of other things has done this of course, but First are complicit for much of there losses.

It’s that simple.