First Greater Glasgow

[92002]

Some of the E400 MMCs for the 38 still have it too every single time they stop. I feel for the social media team to be fair because it has been pointed out to them a few times but whether the depots actually listen to any feedback is another matter.

Interesting was on a 38 MMC today with no announcements at all. So the message must be getting heard.

 

[PaulMc7]

Interesting was on a 38 MMC today with no announcements at all. So the message must be getting heard.

They've definitely fixed it on a few of them to be fair. Out of my last 4 times on 38s, 2 had them, 1 didn't and the other was a 54 plate 38B.

 

[Rory N]

Is there next stop audio - visual announcements on the new E200/400 EV’s?

 

[PaulMc7]

What percentage of services are now timetabled compared to pre-covid? Given the driver situation I'm surprised there's not been another big load of cuts although there's still plenty of time this year for it to happen. As much as I like the cancellation feature, it needs to be something First make 100% accurate. I've notice a couple of times now where buses have been cancelled on the app but actually ran.

 

[38A-Z]

Just a quick question- Is the 267 now fully decker operated?

The 267 is definitely seeing a lot of deckers.

I was looking through the timetables and see that the 21 is now only running 2 per hour, full daytime route, city to Gardenhall.
Previously there were also half hourly shorts city to Cathkin/ Springhall, so the 21 did every 15 mins to Cathkin, every second bus going to Gardenhall.

It might be nothing to do with the above but with the 21 only running half hourly (instead of 15 mins), I wonder if that’s why the 267 is mostly deckers to give extra cover for the city to Rutherglen bit.

 

[Volvodart]

I've notice a couple of times now where buses have been cancelled on the app but actually ran.

You would have thought that the over riding of the cancellation function when the bus actually runs would have been one of the requirements of the system, as you know they will not be adjusted manually, so the cancellation will just run until the end of the cancellation entered.

 

[PaulMc7]

You would have thought that the over riding of the cancellation function when the bus actually runs would have been one of the requirements of the system, as you know they will not be adjusted manually, so the cancellation will just run until the end of the cancellation entered.

I hope it's just a case of the cancellation thing being new here and it'll become 100% accurate. I'd imagine the fact Aberdeen etc have had it for a while will allow them to figure out any issues with it before implementing it fully elsewhere. Here's hoping the rest of the network here gets it soon as it is handy to have.

 

[Volvodart]

It is the same at Aberdeen, you cannot rely on the cancellation function, you have to see the buses on the map to be sure when buses are due when there are cancellations. I tried to point this out to the contact centre, but they were not interested so I gave up.

 

[PaulMc7]

It is the same at Aberdeen, you cannot rely on the cancellation function, you have to see the buses on the map to be sure when buses are due when there are cancellations. I tried to point this out to the contact centre, but they were not interested so I gave up.

To be fair I do feel for the contact centre staff. They're given an impossible task because they don't really know many areas outside of Leeds. You'd have thought they could have a team for local knowledge at Caledonia given it was supposed to be this wonderful, modern depot and yet from what gets said about it it's the worst run one of the lot.

Going by the app today, they've gave up on the cancellation feature already unless there are plenty of broken trackers across the Scotstoun based services.

 

[route101]

Another big bus company has a cancellation feature, I noticed my bus was cancelled but it was at very short notice. The 267 had a phase around a decade ago where it mostly double decker's in operation, so history repeating itself.

 

[PaulMc7]

Another big bus company has a cancellation feature, I noticed my bus was cancelled but it was at very short notice. The 267 had a phase around a decade ago where it mostly double decker's in operation, so history repeating itself.

I wonder if First's works how Stagecoach's does to be fair in the sense that sometimes they can't register the cancellations quick enough to show them as cancelled if it's last minute. It would be easier if the depots ran their own social media to be fair and actually made effort to post cancellations. Blantyre and Overtown did for a while but even that has stopped.

The 267 needed double deckers to be fair. It seems to be one of the most consistently busy services in the entire network here let alone just Lanarkshire.

 

[Volvodart]

With the Aberdeen one, I have seen a bus in black with the exact time (not live) and it was then cancelled, either just before it was due to leave or a short while thereafter.

 

[PaulMc7]

With the Aberdeen one, I have seen a bus in black with the exact time (not live) and it was then cancelled, either just before it was due to leave or a short while thereafter.

It seems to be limited to showing as cancelled 2 hours in advance from what I've seen so far. Ideally that would become longer over time too and it would show if a bus is running short instead of having to look at different stops beyond changeover points and depots to check. I need to do it with my 2 for work as it changes at Scotstoun and it is usually one of the first ones that gets cut at Scotstoun if the 2 is even short 1 driver for the whole day let alone more.

 

[lastbus]

The 267 is definitely seeing a lot of deckers.

I was looking through the timetables and see that the 21 is now only running 2 per hour, full daytime route, city to Gardenhall.
Previously there were also half hourly shorts city to Cathkin/ Springhall, so the 21 did every 15 mins to Cathkin, every second bus going to Gardenhall.

It might be nothing to do with the above but with the 21 only running half hourly (instead of 15 mins), I wonder if that’s why the 267 is mostly deckers to give extra cover for the city to Rutherglen bit.

The 267 is decker operated where possible as it is also running at a reduced frequency.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Aug 2022 ==

They've definitely fixed it on a few of them to be fair. Out of my last 4 times on 38s, 2 had them, 1 didn't and the other was a 54 plate 38B.

A tech savvy enough driver can turn the announcements off.

 

[singlemalt]

The 267 is decker operated where possible as it is also running at a reduced frequency.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Aug 2022 ==


A tech savvy enough driver can turn the announcements off.

True they had a branded 38 on the 267 today

 

[Noddy1]

True they had a branded 38 on the 267 today

Saw a 38 liveried decker on 267 last Thursday..

 

[adrock1976]

Being as traded buses are appearing on several routes other than those that they are branded for, is it time to do away with branding (except maybe for the 500 Buchanan - Airport, as that is promoted for tourists) and have a simple livery?

This would apply for all operators to have a unified single livery, like how it is done the proper way in London where a TfL bus is easily recognisable by the famous red livery regardless of the operator.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Saw a 38 liveried decker on 267 last Thursday..

There’s a few 38 branded MMCs now based at Blantyre.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Being as traded buses are appearing on several routes other than those that they are branded for, is it time to do away with branding (except maybe for the 500 Buchanan - Airport, as that is promoted for tourists) and have a simple livery?

This would apply for all operators to have a unified single livery, like how it is done the proper way in London where a TfL bus is easily recognisable by the famous red livery regardless of the operator.

All route branding in Glasgow is getting done away with, all buses being put into standard livery

 

[GusB]

All route branding in Glasgow is getting done away with, all buses being put into standard livery

Could you provide the source for this information, please?

 

[ScotRail158725]

Could you provide the source for this information, please?

Its on the First Glasgow facebook group, the sources there being staff

 

[Albaman]

There’s a few 38 branded MMCs now based at Blantyre.

34388 -34392 inclusive.

 

[PaulMc7]

How has recruitment been going for First? There are some days where cancellations seem a lot lower at times but then some others were multiple buses don't turn up in a row.

The cancellation feature seems to have stopped for services out of Scotstoun too. Other than one 6 on Saturday morning I don't think it's been used fully since Friday.

 

[KGGXXXY]

How has recruitment been going for First? There are some days where cancellations seem a lot lower at times but then some others were multiple buses don't turn up in a row.

The cancellation feature seems to have stopped for services out of Scotstoun too. Other than one 6 on Saturday morning I don't think it's been used fully since Friday.

I would assume recruitment is not going as well as they would hope, I had a junk mail leaflet leaflet through my door yesterday from First looking for drivers.

 

[PaulMc7]

I would assume recruitment is not going as well as they would hope, I had a junk mail leaflet leaflet through my door yesterday from First looking for drivers.

I'm not surprised to be fair. The problem seems to be retention more than anything. The 2 I get to work seems to be the new driver shift at Scotstoun and there have been loads of them but I barely see any of the ones I seen even a year ago.

I've got one of those leaflets too it turns out. At least they're doing something I guess.

 

[route101]

I'm not surprised to be fair. The problem seems to be retention more than anything. The 2 I get to work seems to be the new driver shift at Scotstoun and there have been loads of them but I barely see any of the ones I seen even a year ago.

I've got one of those leaflets too it turns out. At least they're doing something I guess.

You not fancy the bus driving?

Had a new driver and trainer on a First Bus yesterday, not Glasgow but did see SF07FDV ex First Glasgow bus.

 

[PaulMc7]

You not fancy the bus driving?

Had a new driver and trainer on a First Bus yesterday, not Glasgow but did see SF07FDV ex First Glasgow bus.

I can't drive a car let alone a bus lol. My 2 seems to have a new driver on an almost daily basis at this point and after work seems to be the same now. Dumbarton seems far less affected by the shortages to be fair so I wonder what they're doing that the other depots aren't.

On another app cancellation feature point, I noticed a 9A showing as cancelled earlier. Caledonia badly needs the feature though. It would help a significant amount of people.

 

[Rory N]

All route branding in Glasgow is getting done away with, all buses being put into standard livery

I wouldn’t have thought that they would de-brand all of the electrics as they have just started.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

I'm not surprised to be fair. The problem seems to be retention more than anything. The 2 I get to work seems to be the new driver shift at Scotstoun and there have been loads of them but I barely see any of the ones I seen even a year ago.

I've got one of those leaflets too it turns out. At least they're doing something I guess.

If you’ve worked for them you’ll understand why retention of staff has became an impossibility. The industry has some major issues, though not just First, albeit they're at the apex of the problem, right alongside Stagecoach.

You not fancy the bus driving?

Had a new driver and trainer on a First Bus yesterday, not Glasgow but did see SF07FDV ex First Glasgow bus.

For every 1 new driver, 1 experienced driver leaves, you can be guaranteed that’s happening, therefore few things have changed for the better.

Even if they had hundreds of new staff coming through the door, the minute most of them realised all First were concerned about was ensuring you worked 12hr spreadovers they would begin leaving again.

I can't drive a car let alone a bus lol. My 2 seems to have a new driver on an almost daily basis at this point and after work seems to be the same now. Dumbarton seems far less affected by the shortages to be fair so I wonder what they're doing that the other depots aren't.

On another app cancellation feature point, I noticed a 9A showing as cancelled earlier. Caledonia badly needs the feature though. It would help a significant amount of people.

2 issues here.

With Dumbarton, like many other smaller depots, the drivers that are stationed there likely have not seen great changes to the shifts or lines they would normally get. This is likely because they're of sufficient enough quality that drivers aren’t feeling the sheer annoyance that scrambled larger depots experience. Smaller depots are known for being more “close knit” internally than the larger depots with their staff knowing eachother by name, not just by face. Generally speaking you're also only ever doing Helensburgh-Dumbarton-Glasgow or the Dumbarton town buses. It takes the work load off drivers so to speak and having a smaller depot means that the organisation of said depot is easier to achieve, meaning the drivers especially face less upheaval and annoyance.

The issue with Caledonia is its sheer size but also with a team of Supervisors & Managers who seemingly are overwhelmed at times by this, specially I think because the processes at the depot need overhauled.

Having Larkfield, Parkhead & Cumbernauld all in one depot has been a stupendous mistake, there is no other way to describe it.

The way in which the depot operates is poor to say the least and in such a big place it needs to operate with precision and with process in place. It isn’t and that's because it’s managed by those who are college/university graduates in business management; smart people but with no working man’s experience of the operation outside of their office doors.

If you don’t do the driver's job you cannot experience where the issues are that need fixed.

My point is that the depot lacks structure and process to its operation, at least that's my best take from them not being able to notify of cancellations.

Anyway, story time.

Having worked there, my idea for Caledonia needs to be specifically to split up into 3 operations again with individual teams to manage Parkhead, Larkfield and Cumbernauld entities separately.

Let me walk you through the daily routine at Caledonia from a driver perspective.

1. You sign on of course.
2. collect the bus board for that days service.
3. the vehicle you’d be taking is placed on the vehicle allocation sheet (fleet number & depot floor plan for the vehicle location)
4. Find the vehicle for its First Use check.

Point 4 is often where the problems begin. If it is not early doors and you are starting around the 7-8am mark, what you find often is that Engineering have collected the vehicle earlier but placed it elsewhere, leading to the bus running out the depot late causing problems simply because you can’t find your bus, I digress.

You go to “The Hub”, basically a portacabin in the middle of Caledonia's yard and theres a supervisor there, by which time after watching these idiots figure out their own mistakes of not knowing where buses are placed because engineering and “The Hub” Supervisors DO NOT communicate about where buses have been moved to after engineering have done their bit.

Throughout the day, if your break was at the depot, for example, and you were coming off a 75 but there was no driver available to take over you transfer to the 75 behind and take the vehicle back into the depot, you park the bus up in a “sea” of unorganised buses with no sense of the word organisation, by which time there is no supervisor or other person responsible at “The Hub” because it’s now 12pm.

Your finished your break, so you go to the transport desk inside the main building, ask if your bus board is on or off the road.

Often as you may have guessed it is not on the road, so you collect the appropriate bus board and you're told bus (33433 for example, service 41/06 bus board), often the bus is in lye 5 and that where your told to go (lye 5 - as I previously mentioned, the “sea of buses”).

So anyway you eventually find your bus parked right at the centre of this sea, causing yet more problems by trying to move other buses.

The ultimate point I am making here is that organisation at Caledonia is abysmal, hence the reasons cancellations aren’t being reported appropriately.

 

[PaulMc7]

If you’ve worked for them you’ll understand why retention of staff has became an impossibility. The industry has some major issues, though not just First, albeit they're at the apex of the problem, right alongside Stagecoach.


For every 1 new driver, 1 experienced driver leaves, you can be guaranteed that’s happening, therefore few things have changed for the better.

Even if they had hundreds of new staff coming through the door, the minute most of them realised all First were concerned about was ensuring you worked 12hr spreadovers they would begin leaving again.


2 issues here.

With Dumbarton, like many other smaller depots, the drivers that are stationed there likely have not seen great changes to the shifts or lines they would normally get. This is likely because they're of sufficient enough quality that drivers aren’t feeling the sheer annoyance that scrambled larger depots experience. Smaller depots are known for being more “close knit” internally than the larger depots with their staff knowing eachother by name, not just by face. Generally speaking you're also only ever doing Helensburgh-Dumbarton-Glasgow or the Dumbarton town buses. It takes the work load off drivers so to speak and having a smaller depot means that the organisation of said depot is easier to achieve, meaning the drivers especially face less upheaval and annoyance.

The issue with Caledonia is its sheer size but also with a team of Supervisors & Managers who seemingly are overwhelmed at times by this, specially I think because the processes at the depot need overhauled.

Having Larkfield, Parkhead & Cumbernauld all in one depot has been a stupendous mistake, there is no other way to describe it.

The way in which the depot operates is poor to say the least and in such a big place it needs to operate with precision and with process in place. It isn’t and that's because it’s managed by those who are college/university graduates in business management; smart people but with no working man’s experience of the operation outside of their office doors.

If you don’t do the driver's job you cannot experience where the issues are that need fixed.

My point is that the depot lacks structure and process to its operation, at least that's my best take from them not being able to notify of cancellations.

Anyway, story time.

Having worked there, my idea for Caledonia needs to be specifically to split up into 3 operations again with individual teams to manage Parkhead, Larkfield and Cumbernauld entities separately.

Let me walk you through the daily routine at Caledonia from a driver perspective.

1. You sign on of course.
2. collect the bus board for that days service.
3. the vehicle you’d be taking is placed on the vehicle allocation sheet (fleet number & depot floor plan for the vehicle location)
4. Find the vehicle for its First Use check.

Point 4 is often where the problems begin. If it is not early doors and you are starting around the 7-8am mark, what you find often is that Engineering have collected the vehicle earlier but placed it elsewhere, leading to the bus running out the depot late causing problems simply because you can’t find your bus, I digress.

You go to “The Hub”, basically a portacabin in the middle of Caledonia's yard and theres a supervisor there, by which time after watching these idiots figure out their own mistakes of not knowing where buses are placed because engineering and “The Hub” Supervisors DO NOT communicate about where buses have been moved to after engineering have done their bit.

Throughout the day, if your break was at the depot, for example, and you were coming off a 75 but there was no driver available to take over you transfer to the 75 behind and take the vehicle back into the depot, you park the bus up in a “sea” of unorganised buses with no sense of the word organisation, by which time there is no supervisor or other person responsible at “The Hub” because it’s now 12pm.

Your finished your break, so you go to the transport desk inside the main building, ask if your bus board is on or off the road.

Often as you may have guessed it is not on the road, so you collect the appropriate bus board and you're told bus (33433 for example, service 41/06 bus board), often the bus is in lye 5 and that where your told to go (lye 5 - as I previously mentioned, the “sea of buses”).

So anyway you eventually find your bus parked right at the centre of this sea, causing yet more problems by trying to move other buses.

The ultimate point I am making here is that organisation at Caledonia is abysmal, hence the reasons cancellations aren’t being reported appropriately.

Thank you for the insight. I'm a great believer in management working effectively if they take the time to communicate with staff significantly and learn every process they have a gap in but as you say that's where the major problem is.

I've never been a fan of Caledonia housing so many buses and routes either to be honest. I get why they did it but it always seemed a dangerous route to go down for causing disorganisation and we've been right on that clearly.

The whole spreadover shift pattern has never made much sense to me to be honest. It'll never be the best job for a work-life balance but I do feel that there's ways to properly roster shifts and be able to cover the routes they run although if it was me there would have been cuts already to fit driver availability and not what First seem to be trying by setting a level of service to achieve instead of putting out timetables they know they can run.

I'm guessing everywhere is now getting app cancellation feature testing? 18s, 201s and 266s showing it now too.