First Greater Glasgow

[route101]

I understand that SPT sought tenders for a one bus Mon-Sat daytime, EK-Carmunnock 31 service.

31 just going between Carmunnock and East Kilbride. Might as well just run it from City to EK.

 

[Stan Drews]

31 just going between Carmunnock and East Kilbride. Might as well just run it from City to EK.

First operate the City - Carmunnock section commercially during the day on Mon-Sat, so no need for a subsidised service on that section.

 

[smtglasgow]

First operate the City - Carmunnock section commercially during the day on Mon-Sat, so no need for a subsidised service on that section.

…and if First win the SPT tender, they could easily operate it as a through service

 

[PaulMc7]

…and if First win the SPT tender, they could easily operate it as a through service

I think for SPT and the people who need the bus that's the best hope tbh. Would be off putting to use if you had to pay more for a different operator so if less people use it then it's just another waste of very limited SPT resources

 

[739678]

Of course, another company could win the tender for the 31 and extend it through to the City Centre commercially themselves....

 

[PaulMc7]

Of course, another company could win the tender for the 31 and extend it through to the City Centre commercially themselves....

Competing with First through Castlemilk, Croftfoot, Mount Florida, Govanhill/Crosshill would be kamikaze for any operator in the current situation tbh plus you then still run into the problem that people probably wouldn't use it given that if you use another bus too it's pretty likely to be a First bus so the extra cost for another ticket would be off putting

 

[Stan Drews]

Of course, another company could win the tender for the 31 and extend it through to the City Centre commercially themselves....

I can’t imagine anyone would be that stupid, especially in the current climate!

 

[NorthClyde320]

Could Whitelaws extend there 250 or 256 services to/from Stewartfield or Carmunnock, or perhaps the SPT may extend the 172 or 395 services in the same way. The thing that strikes me is how poorly used this section of the 31 must be for the SPT to cut there own service, it's not like them as they are there to provide a service a commercial operator deems unviable.

 

[PaulMc7]

Could Whitelaws extend there 250 or 256 services to/from Stewartfield or Carmunnock, or perhaps the SPT may extend the 172 or 395 services in the same way. The thing that strikes me is how poorly used this section of the 31 must be for the SPT to cut there own service, it's not like them as they are there to provide a service a commercial operator deems unviable.

The 395 is an East Kilbride tour as it is already. The 172 is possible though. I think with the SPT tenders for the 31 it was a resources issue. I wouldn't say it's 100% going to be back fully though although it could considering it's taking til the 23rd for a lot of the services to go back to their original operator. First get quite a few services back for example. The M1 being extended could be an option as it's already an SPT service with First and it's entirely a local service. I doubt Whitelaws would extend any further either in the current climate too

 

[route101]

Extending Whitelaws routes will make them quite long, as they go to Hairmyres Hospital. Id say best option is to extend 31 to EK hourly with SPT funding. Thats dependent on SPT.

In the last few weeks ive been on services far quieter than the 31 usually is.

 

[lastbus]

Extending Whitelaws routes will make them quite long, as they go to Hairmyres Hospital. Id say best option is to extend 31 to EK hourly with SPT funding. Thats dependent on SPT.

In the last few weeks ive been on services far quieter than the 31 usually is.

Obviously the buses are quiet just now but they are being funded. Don’t think SPT will be in a rush to fund the 31 if they only think the carmunnock to city section is worth subsidising in the evening.

 

[christopherrfc]

First have registered some school journeys founded by spt


bus registration number, service number, start point or finish point
Licence traffic areaAll Scotland
StatusAll New
Update results

Registration number	Operator name	Service number	Start point	Finish point
PM0000001/649 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S2	St Vincent Street, Glasgow	Dumbarton Road, Scotstoun
PM0000001/648 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S2	Fairley Terminus	Chalmer Street, Clydebank
PM0000001/647 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S1	Bowling Railway Station	Kilbowie Roundabout, Clydebank & St Peter the Apostle School
PM0000001/654 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S57	Pollokshaws West	Hillpark Secondary
PM0000001/651 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S3	Riverford Road	Leverndale Hospital
PM0000001/652 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S3	Silverburn Bus Stance	Loudres Secondary
PM0000001/650 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S2	Mill Road, Yoker	Kilbowie Roundabout
PM0000001/655 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S57	Laurieston, Bridge Street	Shawlands Academy

PM0000001/653 New

FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD

S46

Rutherglen Mitchell Arcade

Eastbank Academy

 

[PaulMc7]

The Clydebank ones will definitely help a good bit with social distancing etc anyway. Getting a bus at Clydebank used to be pretty difficult because all of the 2s, M60s, 60s and 81s used to end up full pretty quickly just because of Chalmers St

 

[Jordan Adam]

Shows how bad the concession reimbursement actually is then. Would need 25 passes just to break even so basically 2/3 of the bus full going by previous figures mentioned on here regarding reimbursement percentages and cost per hour

According to First on average a bus needs to carry roughly 30-35 fare paying passengers per hour (that's not at once, but over the space of an hour) to be profitable. The reimbursement rate is around 55%, so basically each pass user only accounts for 1/2 a person. People can point blame at operators all they like (not saying you are), but how can you expect them to maintain a service their loosing money on.

It always makes me laugh when i see comments from angry "bus users" on Facebook complaining about the service to their village in the middle of nowhere or a housing estate with low bus use being cut, they'll then use the classic line that the "fat cats at the top only care about profits". If those same people actually used the service it may not get cut, secondly yes management do care about profits, that's the whole point of a commercial business. Bus operators don't just axe a service for the sake of it.

 

[lastbus]

First have registered some school journeys founded by spt


bus registration number, service number, start point or finish point
Licence traffic areaAll Scotland
StatusAll New
Update results

Registration number	Operator name	Service number	Start point	Finish point
PM0000001/649 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S2	St Vincent Street, Glasgow	Dumbarton Road, Scotstoun
PM0000001/648 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S2	Fairley Terminus	Chalmer Street, Clydebank
PM0000001/647 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S1	Bowling Railway Station	Kilbowie Roundabout, Clydebank & St Peter the Apostle School
PM0000001/654 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S57	Pollokshaws West	Hillpark Secondary
PM0000001/651 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S3	Riverford Road	Leverndale Hospital
PM0000001/652 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S3	Silverburn Bus Stance	Loudres Secondary
PM0000001/650 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S2	Mill Road, Yoker	Kilbowie Roundabout
PM0000001/655 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S57	Laurieston, Bridge Street	Shawlands Academy

PM0000001/653 New

FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD

S46

Rutherglen Mitchell Arcade

Eastbank Academy

These are already running some sub contracted to other operators. First already had the contract for these schools where they allowed children to travel on the service buses with a pass however they couldn’t fulfil the contract due to social distancing hence why these buses are on.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

First have registered some school journeys founded by spt


bus registration number, service number, start point or finish point
Licence traffic areaAll Scotland
StatusAll New
Update results

Registration number	Operator name	Service number	Start point	Finish point
PM0000001/649 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S2	St Vincent Street, Glasgow	Dumbarton Road, Scotstoun
PM0000001/648 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S2	Fairley Terminus	Chalmer Street, Clydebank
PM0000001/647 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S1	Bowling Railway Station	Kilbowie Roundabout, Clydebank & St Peter the Apostle School
PM0000001/654 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S57	Pollokshaws West	Hillpark Secondary
PM0000001/651 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S3	Riverford Road	Leverndale Hospital
PM0000001/652 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S3	Silverburn Bus Stance	Loudres Secondary
PM0000001/650 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S2	Mill Road, Yoker	Kilbowie Roundabout
PM0000001/655 New	FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD	S57	Laurieston, Bridge Street	Shawlands Academy

PM0000001/653 New

FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD

S46

Rutherglen Mitchell Arcade

Eastbank Academy

Eastbank used to get school buses years ago but it stopped for a good few years.

 

[lastbus]

According to First on average a bus needs to carry roughly 30-35 fare paying passengers per hour (that's not at once, but over the space of an hour) to be profitable. The reimbursement rate is around 55%, so basically each pass user only accounts for 1/2 a person. People can point blame at operators all they like (not saying you are), but how can you expect them to maintain a service their loosing money on.

It always makes me laugh when i see comments from angry "bus users" on Facebook complaining about the service to their village in the middle of nowhere or a housing estate with low bus use being cut, they'll then use the classic line that the "fat cats at the top only care about profits". If those same people actually used the service it may not get cut, secondly yes management do care about profits, that's the whole point of a commercial business. Bus operators don't just axe a service for the sake of it.

I think 30-35 paying passengers an hour is unrealistic on most services.

 

[PaulMc7]

According to First on average a bus needs to carry roughly 30-35 fare paying passengers per hour (that's not at once, but over the space of an hour) to be profitable. The reimbursement rate is around 55%, so basically each pass user only accounts for 1/2 a person. People can point blame at operators all they like (not saying you are), but how can you expect them to maintain a service their loosing money on.

It always makes me laugh when i see comments from angry "bus users" on Facebook complaining about the service to their village in the middle of nowhere or a housing estate with low bus use being cut, they'll then use the classic line that the "fat cats at the top only care about profits". If those same people actually used the service it may not get cut, secondly yes management do care about profits, that's the whole point of a commercial business. Bus operators don't just axe a service for the sake of it.

Yeah I'm surprised there's not more cuts if I'm honest. Some of the online comments are pretty funny too. If we had to put a bet on cuts before they were announced I would have had the 31 and X1 on the list pretty quickly. There must have been some really shaky peg services before Covid and I think by the end of the year there will be at least 1 more set of changes

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2020 ==

I think 30-35 paying passengers an hour is unrealistic on most services.

Tend to agree there. Outside of the absolute core routes I can't even think of many others were I've seen those numbers on a bus. Even when I've been on buses that are full or close to it there's still a fair few concession pass holders

 

[Jordan Adam]

I think 30-35 paying passengers an hour is unrealistic on most services.

Generally speaking it's not, as i say that's over the span of an hour, not at once.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Generally speaking it's not, as i say that's over the span of an hour, not at once.

The rough cost per hour (incl profit and O/head) is about £35-40.

 

[lastbus]

Generally speaking it's not, as i say that's over the span of an hour, not at once.

I know it’s not all at once but it’s still an unrealistic number especially when you take into account the concession reimbursement.

 

[Jordan Adam]

The rough cost per hour (incl profit and O/head) is about £35-40.

Indeed, depends on running costs though, those can vary depending on bus types. The E300s for example use about 20 litres less fuel per day per bus compared to the B7RLEs, so well over £100 per week, add that up over a fleet of buses and you see the huge impact it has.

 

[PaulMc7]

If concession reimbursement was upped to 75%/80% it would make such a massive difference and I feel given the current situation it's going to be something that's needed to avoid a huge wave of cuts across the country

 

[Jordan Adam]

If concession reimbursement was upped to 75%/80% it would make such a massive difference and I feel given the current situation it's going to be something that's needed to avoid a huge wave of cuts across the country

A better option would be reintroducing the "half fare" for concession users. I know it's controversial, but it's either that or more services get cut, you can't have both.

That being said most of the damage has been done already, look across the country and there's endless examples of once profitable routes now being in the red and needing subsidy.

 

[PaulMc7]

A better option would be reintroducing the "half fare" for concession users. I know it's controversial, but it's either that or more services get cut, you can't have both.

That being said most of the damage has been done already, look across the country and there's endless examples of once profitable routes now being in the red and needing subsidy.

Yeah it's a bit of a mess tbh. Very tough thing to fix as well

 

[overthewater]

You have to wonder why all the normal passengers have gotten to?

 

[christopherrfc]

the ex go-ahead buses are now out on the 81

First Glasgow 47396 LJ13GKV

www.flickr.com

 

[PaulMc7]

You have to wonder why all the normal passengers have gotten to?

Reliability is a huge issue here but it's only the buses that generally deal with it consistently and with recovery times on most services not being that kind then buses can very rarely make it up. The general public don't understand why we have it though which doesn't help and councils are generally scared to annoy car users

Shopping in store has died a fair death in recent times and covid won't have helped either. Pretty much everyone has access to online shopping or a friend or relative who does

First's app isn't the most reliable plus you can check train times etc on it too so it probably pushes people onto trains that way

Not just a First thing but all operators that don't give change have the issue of people don't want to spend just to get change for the bus so that's off putting too

Some people have been so driven by fear due to covid that they believe you will get it and die if you use a bus once too

The few years of having mostly absolute tat on the roads put a lot of people off and the differences between the best and worst buses here are still pretty big granted it's something driven by having so many operations and a company in the mud financially

 

[Jordan Adam]

The core passenger demographic off peak has always been those unemployed or the elderly. Commuters/workers still generally only travel at peak times, it's not that "normal passengers/commuters" have gone, actually commuter passengers have stayed pretty stable. It's more the case that operators get less money from pass users now, fares are cheaper now (when taking in to account inflation), running costs have shot up and off peak demand has decreased. The decline in offpeak numbers isn't really to do with fares or routes (most of the cuts have happened after the decrease in use, not before) but more due to the increasing popularity of online shopping, this isn't anything new and has been happening gradually for about 5-10 years.

 

[route101]

Reliability is a huge issue here but it's only the buses that generally deal with it consistently and with recovery times on most services not being that kind then buses can very rarely make it up. The general public don't understand why we have it though which doesn't help and councils are generally scared to annoy car users

Shopping in store has died a fair death in recent times and covid won't have helped either. Pretty much everyone has access to online shopping or a friend or relative who does

First's app isn't the most reliable plus you can check train times etc on it too so it probably pushes people onto trains that way

Not just a First thing but all operators that don't give change have the issue of people don't want to spend just to get change for the bus so that's off putting too

Some people have been so driven by fear due to covid that they believe you will get it and die if you use a bus once too

The few years of having mostly absolute tat on the roads put a lot of people off and the differences between the best and worst buses here are still pretty big granted it's something driven by having so many operations and a company in the mud financially

Train services seem more certain and predictable, even if thats not the case all the time. Id rather wait in a railway station , than a bus stop next to a busy road, ' oh the neighbours , work colleagues will see me waiting for the bus' .