First Greater Glasgow

[PaulMc7]

There are dedicated school journeys running don’t know which routes though. Social distancing is not required on these buses.

Thanks for the info. Would have been good for First to openly communicate this tbh

 

[PaulMc7]

Stagecoach did express buses to East Kilbride. The age old problem is there is no fast road (that is uncongested) from EK to Town that would give you a good time saving, unlike the buses from Cumbernauld, Erskine, Linwood, Pollok. The M74 from Rutherglen might save you a wee bit of time, but it would be marginal.

You'd be best running limited stop through Rutherglen etc, which isn't a terrible idea for some peak services depending on time savings. Arguably, I'd say via Castlemilk is probably fastest at peaks.

Fully agree with this. Would say by using the M74 and EK expressway but the traffic at both is an absolute nightmare at peaks plus the way onto the M77 rules that out too. Doubt First would ever do anything limited stop in the current climate though

 

[lastbus]

Thanks for the info. Would have been good for First to openly communicate this tbh

It’s been communicated with the schools and the parents the whole world doesn’t need to know as these are essentially school buses and not to be used by the public.

 

[PaulMc7]

It’s been communicated with the schools and the parents the whole world doesn’t need to know as these are essentially school buses and not to be used by the public.

Wouldn't say everyone got told who needed to know going by Twitter. Would have prevented a bit of outrage and allowed parents of pupils on routes not getting extras to plan ahead

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Wouldn't say everyone got told who needed to know going by Twitter. Would have prevented a bit of outrage and allowed parents of pupils on routes not getting extras to plan ahead

I'm sure everyone who needed told, got told.

 

[lastbus]

Wouldn't say everyone got told who needed to know going by Twitter. Would have prevented a bit of outrage and allowed parents of pupils on routes not getting extras to plan ahead

It was all communicated and planned with the relevant local authorities.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Wouldn't say everyone got told who needed to know going by Twitter. Would have prevented a bit of outrage and allowed parents of pupils on routes not getting extras to plan ahead

How much outrage has there actually been?

GET website had SIX comments and they weren't all critical.

 

[Jordan Adam]

How much outrage has there actually been?

Not to mention it was on Twitter, land of the vocal minority!

As has already been said, there's no need for First to publicise closed door school services. Otherwise you just end up with Doris and her chums filling up the lower deck taking the "long route" to their local Asda while reminiscing over how different things were back in the day.

 

[PaulMc7]

How much outrage has there actually been?

GET website had SIX comments and they weren't all critical.

Seen a bit of it on Twitter and Facebook and obviously there was the stuff with the M3 and 404 issues already. If First want to maintain things here then even 1 negative comment is too many really especially given that the negativity is deserved.

Could easily just display on the front that it's a school service too

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Seen a bit of it on Twitter and Facebook and obviously there was the stuff with the M3 and 404 issues already. If First want to maintain things here then even 1 negative comment is too many really especially given that the negativity is deserved

Every business gets negative comments. You have to make judgement calls on what is acceptable.

They just can't afford to lose thousands to placate a few people; it's as simple as that. As an accountant, surely you understand that?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I'm honestly not sure what point you're trying to get across?

Why should First publicise a closed-door school contract?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Not to mention it was on Twitter, land of the vocal minority!

As has already been said, there's no need for First to publicise closed door school services. Otherwise you just end up with Doris and her chums filling up the lower deck taking the "long route" to their local Asda while reminiscing over how different things were back in the day.

How true.... the virtual green ink brigade.

 

[PaulMc7]

Every business gets negative comments. You have to make judgement calls on what is acceptable.

They just can't afford to lose thousands to placate a few people; it's as simple as that. As an accountant, surely you understand that?

I do understand that but by not publicising things which were apparently told to everyone who needed to know but clearly haven't been given the nature of the complaints that's a problem. I just think there's a far better way to communicate and given that we are in 2020 there's no excuse for not using social media effectively to do that. You'll get complaints just based on the sheer hatred of First but some of them are completely avoidable

 

[Jordan Adam]

I do understand that but by not publicising things which were apparently told to everyone who needed to know but clearly haven't been given the nature of the complaints that's a problem. I just think there's a far better way to communicate and given that we are in 2020 there's no excuse for not using social media effectively to do that. You'll get complaints just based on the sheer hatred of First but some of them are completely avoidable

It sounds more probable that 'Karen' wasn't paying attention to the information that was likely handed out by the school or local authority in time for her child returning!

It's not First's responsibility to advertise the service, especially not given it's closed door, that's down to the council as it's them who are tendering it. Advertising such a service would lead to non-school pupils using it which defeats the purpose of having it in the first place.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I do understand that but by not publicising things which were apparently told to everyone who needed to know but clearly haven't been given the nature of the complaints that's a problem. I just think there's a far better way to communicate and given that we are in 2020 there's no excuse for not using social media effectively to do that. You'll get complaints just based on the sheer hatred of First but some of them are completely avoidable

Have you not considered that perhaps that they were publicised to everyone but that people are using Twitter to whip up a storm in the hope of trying to a) force a reversal by First or b) put pressure on SPT to tender a replacement?

Whatever the reason that people are seemingly unable to comprehend a straightforward piece of information and are then mobilised to go on Twitter, the simple fact remains....

First are in no position to lose thousands operating a closed schools service for charitable reasons or avoiding the odd negative tweet; a service whose withdrawal affects only a small number of passengers with no impact on the rest of the network. Also, the issue lies with the Authority - they were told as @Jordan Adam says. It's not First's issue, no matter how much you want it to be.

 

[PaulMc7]

Appears I've upset the grandmasters of First by having a perfectly valid opinion. If the message isn't as well communicated as we think which given the nature of 1 particular complaint about the X3 bus stopping everywhere but 1 stop then that is entirely a First issue

I also never claimed First had to run the services like they normally would. I'm just saying how First shouldn't use a middle man to communicate anything that affects journeys of anyone including school pupils

 

[Jordan Adam]

Appears I've upset the grandmasters of First by having a perfectly valid opinion. If the message isn't as well communicated as we think which given the nature of 1 particular complaint about the X3 bus stopping everywhere but 1 stop then that is entirely a First issue

No one said your opinion wasn't valid, it's just flawed for the reasons already listen above. A commercial service like the X3 isn't comparable to a school contract. Had you made that point for a commercial public service i would agree, but the circumstances are different when it comes to closed door contracts.

 

[lastbus]

Appears I've upset the grandmasters of First by having a perfectly valid opinion. If the message isn't as well communicated as we think which given the nature of 1 particular complaint about the X3 bus stopping everywhere but 1 stop then that is entirely a First issue

I also never claimed First had to run the services like they normally would. I'm just saying how First shouldn't use a middle man to communicate anything that affects journeys of anyone including school pupils

And was there a reason given for the X3 failing to stop? It may have been full or maybe this is a route a school bus is operating on. I think you need to stop spending your day going through every tweet made to first Glasgow and coming up with every route suggestion under the sun to save two non profitable routes which have been scrapped for a reason. It tells it’s own story that SPT 31 is only operating to carmunnock atm.

 

[PaulMc7]

And was there a reason given for the X3 failing to stop? It may have been full or maybe this is a route a school bus is operating on. I think you need to stop spending your day going through every tweet made to first Glasgow and coming up with every route suggestion under the sun to save two non profitable routes which have been scrapped for a reason. It tells it’s own story that SPT 31 is only operating to carmunnock atm.

Says a lot about you that you think it takes me all day to do literally any of that when it doesn't even take a few mins

 

[lastbus]

Says a lot about you that you think it takes me all day to do literally any of that when it doesn't even take a few mins

Doesn’t matter how long it takes it’s becoming obsessive.

 

[PaulMc7]

Doesn’t matter how long it takes it’s becoming obsessive.

If you knew me at all you wouldn't say that. Literally takes a minute amongst so many other things

 

[route101]

Could split it how the 7/7A split at Toryglen. Split at Philipshill then 4 buses an hour through Westwood and 2 an hour through the 31 route. Only problem is then people from Castlemilk/Carmunnock have a long way around just to get to East Kilbride. Only other thing would be to extend 2 75s an hour but then that has the longer way around Castlemilk into the city centre
[/QUOT

Easiet solution is to just have the 31 going to East Kilbride. 75 will be too long .

I think with East Kilbride railway usage may decreased slightly because of full car park s at the station s . People will just drive to work instead of parking at station. I'm sure I read that.

Yes, more could be done to link the railway stations up . I used the 31 as it was quick into town.

 

[tbtc]

They have been threatening to ditch the 31 up East Kilbride for years. It has been more stable since the last cuts to it in 2015. Doubful with funding id have SPT fund the 31 to East Kilbride as essential service. I see the 21 is still going up East Kilbride , this was not much busier than the 31.

Strange how many passengers have fallen away in EK. I sometimes think the cuts in services have driven away remaining passengers and rather than maintaining the new level of service. The 18 is still busy, but I remember coming up the hill from Cathkin on a 20 which was packed.

The 31 is a strange one. The route - EK-Carmunnock-Castlemilk-Mount Florida-Glasgow is pretty straight and fairly quick. Used to see people in Castlemilk waiting for it in the morning. It should work, but Stewartfield isn't great bus territory and in all honesty parts of the 31 were close to the station.

If SPT were to step in, routes like the 31 are more justifiable, than some of their routes which are nothing more than making sure an area is covered.

Indeed the pandemic and cuts before and after does lead you to wonder if the commercial market is in anyway sustainable.

What went wrong with the 31?

I appreciate that there's a trend across the country where a lot of "secondary" routes dwindle as operators focus more on core routes, so Glasgow has beefed up east-west "Overground" routes like the old 40/41/61/62/66 at the cost of secondary ones like the 11/42 (and others that I'll have forgotten).

But the 37 used to be a frequent route from Castlemilk into Glasgow (alongside the frequent 5/74*/75 plus the less frequent 31), and the 31 has been long under threat.

I get that there's maybe not a massive market for East Kilbride - Castlemilk but the 31 can't be much slower than the 6/18/21 for East Kilbride - City services, it doesn't compete with the train (there's no intermediate stations on the East Kilbride line near the 31 route - and the train is the same frequency it's always been, so nothing "new" there) - I can see why some routes that compete with trains have been cut back a bit - but the 31 feels like a route that could be doing a lot better than it has done.

Same goes for the northern side of the old 37 though, I guess - that's gone from being "turn up and go" route to Milton to that corridor just relying on the "longer distance" routes through Springburn

(* - yeah, one was Magicbus IIRC but Castlemilk seems to have gone down from four frequent routes into town to just two - Magicbus had the big double decker on that route too IIRC?)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If you knew me at all you wouldn't say that. Literally takes a minute amongst so many other things

So what you're saying is that despite how it appears on social media, the reality is quite different and a lot more nuanced than meets the eye....

 

[PaulMc7]

So what you're saying is that despite how it appears on social media, the reality is quite different and a lot more nuanced than meets the eye....

Which is usually the case in the majority of things in life but I've seen it with the word "obsession" before. Not necessarily used towards me but it's a very overused word and that's why I didn't take kind to it. I multitask an awful lot and very rarely actively search for anything to do with First. A lot of what I actually do see comes up based purely off of my location and with that being Glasgow bus stuff pops up even when I don't care about it

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What went wrong with the 31?

I get that there's maybe not a massive market for East Kilbride - Castlemilk but the 31 can't be much slower than the 6/18/21 for East Kilbride - City services, it doesn't compete with the train (there's no intermediate stations on the East Kilbride line near the 31 route - and the train is the same frequency it's always been, so nothing "new" there) - I can see why some routes that compete with trains have been cut back a bit - but the 31 feels like a route that could be doing a lot better than it has done.

It just doesn't match in terms of frequency compared to the main routes, even if it is a match for time

 

[PaulMc7]

What went wrong with the 31?

I appreciate that there's a trend across the country where a lot of "secondary" routes dwindle as operators focus more on core routes, so Glasgow has beefed up east-west "Overground" routes like the old 40/41/61/62/66 at the cost of secondary ones like the 11/42 (and others that I'll have forgotten).

But the 37 used to be a frequent route from Castlemilk into Glasgow (alongside the frequent 5/74*/75 plus the less frequent 31), and the 31 has been long under threat.

I get that there's maybe not a massive market for East Kilbride - Castlemilk but the 31 can't be much slower than the 6/18/21 for East Kilbride - City services, it doesn't compete with the train (there's no intermediate stations on the East Kilbride line near the 31 route - and the train is the same frequency it's always been, so nothing "new" there) - I can see why some routes that compete with trains have been cut back a bit - but the 31 feels like a route that could be doing a lot better than it has done.

Same goes for the northern side of the old 37 though, I guess - that's gone from being "turn up and go" route to Milton to that corridor just relying on the "longer distance" routes through Springburn

(* - yeah, one was Magicbus IIRC but Castlemilk seems to have gone down from four frequent routes into town to just two - Magicbus had the big double decker on that route too IIRC?)

The things that strike me with the 31 are that it runs up Cathcart Road instead of with everything else in Govanhill where the bulk of passengers are and that it's always had worse buses on it. If you'd want to find the old tat in First's fleet the 31 was generally always the first place to look.

As rightly mentioned frequency does play a part too and given that First seem to cut now instead of dropping to hourly I think they know that more than anything. The 31 wasn't the worst for reliability but if you have places to be anything less than every 15 mins is a no go for a lot of people.

It's quicker than the 6 and 21 from Glasgow to East Kilbride town centre and about the same as the 18. I don't think it's helped by the decline of shopping in general but I think to get a better picture across a lot of areas asking the people why they don't use the bus might be the way for that. Could also find out what would make people use the bus. Some might not switch to bus but getting to the root of the problem might stop a pre-Covid disaster

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Which is usually the case in the majority of things in life but I've seen it with the word "obsession" before. Not necessarily used towards me but it's a very overused word and that's why I didn't take kind to it. I multitask an awful lot and very rarely actively search for anything to do with First. A lot of what I actually do see comes up based purely off of my location and with that being Glasgow bus stuff pops up even when I don't care about it

Fair enough but it comes across that you are poring over the FG twitter feed. Moreover, you aren't taking a dispassionate view of what is being posted.

If you were running First Glasgow, and you wanted to avoid "any negative comment", well you would never withdraw a service or have a price increase.

 

[PaulMc7]

Fair enough but it comes across that you are poring over the FG twitter feed. Moreover, you aren't taking a dispassionate view of what is being posted.

If you were running First Glasgow, and you wanted to avoid "any negative comment", well you would never withdraw a service or have a price increase.

I comment on here more because I'm from Glasgow, they're my local bus operator and whenever I get a notification of late it's mainly been here. I do comment on other threads though.

As for Twitter I use it for general engagement and other stuff to do with my blogging etc so in reality a minute every 24 hours is enough for that thread if I can even be bothered. I've never said I wouldn't increase prices or drop services though. I'd certainly give people more warning though and be a lot more transparent as to why

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I comment on here more because I'm from Glasgow, they're my local bus operator and whenever I get a notification of late it's mainly been here. I do comment on other threads though.

As for Twitter I use it for general engagement and other stuff to do with my blogging etc so in reality a minute every 24 hours is enough for that thread if I can even be bothered. I've never said I wouldn't increase prices or drop services though. I'd certainly give people more warning though and be a lot more transparent as to why

We know that you comment on FG mainly.

Like I say, if you were running FG, and if you want to avoid "any negative comment", you'll never make a tough business decision.