First Greater Glasgow

[christopherrfc]

spt latest minutes papers are saying the 2 electric vehicles are due in early 2020

 

[Volvodart]

What has happened to the First ones?

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The unbranded E200MMCs were never intended for any route. They were branded by error.

Press release for the next order of vehicles should be announced later this month/start of Jan with vehicles to start arrive March onwards. No details on what is included in the order and probably won't know until its released. Rumour going round depot we are getting streetdecks but unfortunately I can't get the info confirmed as the new order is hush hush but tbh I wouldn't be surprised as they do cost less than ADL vehicles.

I have also been told we won't be getting 12 plate B9TL's from down south anymore due to a change of plans but may change in the future.

It’ll be interesting to see what we get with this order. I would be happy to see Streetdecks appear. I know some people aren’t keen but I think they’re really nice buses and they’d add a bit of variety to the fleet for sure. If they did appear I wonder which route would get them. Perhaps the 5?

Will be interesting to see!

 

[ScotRail158725]

It’ll be interesting to see what we get with this order. I would be happy to see Streetdecks appear. I know some people aren’t keen but I think they’re really nice buses and they’d add a bit of variety to the fleet for sure. If they did appear I wonder which route would get them. Perhaps the 5?

Will be interesting to see!

streetdecks are good. B5TL/LH ones are better though than the standard streetdeck. Prefer Enviro 400MMCs though

 

[Jordan Adam]

streetdecks are good. B5TL/LH ones are better though than the standard streetdeck. Prefer Enviro 400MMCs though

Streetdecks and good don't go together . Each to their own though.

It’ll be interesting to see what we get with this order. I would be happy to see Streetdecks appear. I know some people aren’t keen but I think they’re really nice buses and they’d add a bit of variety to the fleet for sure. If they did appear I wonder which route would get them. Perhaps the 5?

Will be interesting to see!

Honestly i can't see Glasgow getting Streetdecks. Why would they randomly go for a type that's non-standard in the fleet and that are known to be problematic for other First Ops.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Streetdecks and good don't go together . Each to their own though.



Honestly i can't see Glasgow getting Streetdecks. Why would they randomly go for a type that's non-standard in the fleet and that are known to be problematic for other First Ops.

I do prefer the B5TL/LH buses but I really don’t see First investing in them.

The only other thing I can think of is cost. They are spending a lot trying to complete LEZ and they’ve already drafted other vehicles in from other subsidiaries to reduce the amount of new buses. They must be spending a fortune on Glasgow trying to bring them up to speed with the Euro 6 engines. If the Streetdecks are cheaper then First will jump on that. We’ll see though... I can see it being another order of E200MMCs and/or E400MMCs.

I’m trying to think of which route would be a contender for new deckers?

 

[Volvodart]

It is more than likely there will be single deckers coming anyway for the routes already mentioned, as presumably at some stage it was envisaged that Euro5's will be transferred for conversion to Euro6 and First do not have a lot of Euro5 single deckers apart from Streetlites, so these are likely to be double deckers. Are there a lot of routes that could justify new double deckers anyway?

 

[Jordan Adam]

It is more than likely there will be single deckers coming anyway for the routes already mentioned, as presumably at some stage it was envisaged that Euro5's will be transferred for conversion to Euro6 and First do not have a lot of Euro5 single deckers apart from Streetlites, so these are likely to be double deckers. Are there a lot of routes that could justify new double deckers anyway?

Not sure if you've got mixed up but there's loads of Euro 5 Singles within FirstGroup (Streetlites, E300s and some B7RLEs). I would agree though it does seem the new order will be mostly if not entirely singles.

I do prefer the B5TL/LH buses but I really don’t see First investing in them.

The only other thing I can think of is cost. They are spending a lot trying to complete LEZ and they’ve already drafted other vehicles in from other subsidiaries to reduce the amount of new buses. They must be spending a fortune on Glasgow trying to bring them up to speed with the Euro 6 engines. If the Streetdecks are cheaper then First will jump on that. We’ll see though... I can see it being another order of E200MMCs and/or E400MMCs.

I’m trying to think of which route would be a contender for new deckers?

B5TLs are still problematic, B5LHs are decent but Volvo really ought to offer a double clutch I-Shift imo. You still have the issue of the bodywork though all the Geminis/Streetdecks delivered in the past 2/3 years have been really shoddy from new.

I think with this next batch of new vehicles the aim will be to oust the B7RLEs. Just as a random example but say "The One", 7/7A & 9/9A got new vehicles, that would already total around 75 new buses.

 

[Volvodart]

If you ignore the Streetlites, there are not many others around and they would likely be needed elsewhere.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Not sure if you've got mixed up but there's loads of Euro 5 Singles within FirstGroup (Streetlites, E300s and some B7RLEs). I would agree though it does seem the new order will be mostly if not entirely singles.



B5TLs are still problematic, B5LHs are decent but Volvo really ought to offer a double clutch I-Shift imo. You still have the issue of the bodywork though all the Geminis/Streetdecks delivered in the past 2/3 years have been really shoddy from new.

I think with this next batch of new vehicles the aim will be to oust the B7RLEs. Just as a random example but say "The One", 7/7A & 9/9A got new vehicles, that would already total around 75 new buses.

Are there Euro 5 B7RLEs?

I agree I think the aim will be to withdraw more B7RLEs although there are still a fair amount of 54 plate B7TLs kicking around so perhaps more E400MMCs will be brought in to get rid of them and the remaining 53 plate stock. I don’t imagine they’ll be scrapped I think they’ll be cascaded elsewhere as they’re still good buses. Perhaps if we do get deckers it’ll be unbranded ones just to replace older deckers on any route.

I think the 9/9A is a good call and ‘the one’ as it’ll release a lot of E300s to be used throughout the network and that would definitely oust a good few singles. The 7/7A is still a tricky one for me. Does it merit new buses imo? No. I think other routes could be doing with them but I don’t work for First HQ so if they do then there will be a reason for it.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Are there Euro 5 B7RLEs?

I agree I think the aim will be to withdraw more B7RLEs although there are still a fair amount of 54 plate B7TLs kicking around so perhaps more E400MMCs will be brought in to get rid of them and the remaining 53 plate stock. I don’t imagine they’ll be scrapped I think they’ll be cascaded elsewhere as they’re still good buses. Perhaps if we do get deckers it’ll be unbranded ones just to replace older deckers on any route.

I think the 9/9A is a good call and ‘the one’ as it’ll release a lot of E300s to be used throughout the network and that would definitely oust a good few singles. The 7/7A is still a tricky one for me. Does it merit new buses imo? No. I think other routes could be doing with them but I don’t work for First HQ so if they do then there will be a reason for it.

Yes, "Euro 4" and "Euro 5" B7RLEs are identical in every way except the latter have adblue fitted. Most notable difference however is that Euro 4's have the ZF Ecomat gearbox where as E5s have ZF Ecolife.

I think the focus will be B7RLEs, it has been mentioned that some E400s (or Gemini 2s) may get cascaded in. Also there will will likely be a decent sized vehicle order in 2021 that could potentially finish off what's left by that point of the B7TLs.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Yes, "Euro 4" and "Euro 5" B7RLEs are identical in every way except the latter have adblue fitted. Most notable difference however is that Euro 4's have the ZF Ecomat gearbox where as E5s have ZF Ecolife.

I think the focus will be B7RLEs, it has been mentioned that some E400s (or Gemini 2s) may get cascaded in. Also there will will likely be a decent sized vehicle order in 2021 that could potentially finish off what's left by that point of the B7TLs.

I never knew that I thought they were all Euro 3!

I think it’s sensible to try and do a bigger order in about 2021 as some buses are older but not past their sell by date just yet it would be better to let them continue on in service for another few years before bowing out. Some of the B7TLs have however seen their day as have the B7RLEs - very tired inside and rattle like no mans business. They are nowhere near as powerful as the ones were either.

When it’s been rumoured about E400s are we talking more MMCs or the ones similar to the 12 and 14 plates down south?

 

[Jordan Adam]

I never knew that I thought they were all Euro 3!

I think it’s sensible to try and do a bigger order in about 2021 as some buses are older but not past their sell by date just yet it would be better to let them continue on in service for another few years before bowing out. Some of the B7TLs have however seen their day as have the B7RLEs - very tired inside and rattle like no mans business. They are nowhere near as powerful as the ones were either.

When it’s been rumoured about E400s are we talking more MMCs or the ones similar to the 12 and 14 plates down south?

The B7RLE was continued until 2014, Euro 3 examples stopped being built at 56 plate.

Most of the examples at Aberdeen and FSE are Euro 4 - they sound vastly different too due to them having a different engine (D7E-290). Without veering off topic while the engine note may not be as good (in some peoples opinion) they're far better buses in almost every other aspect. It's quite noticeable how poor condition our 4 06 plates are/were in 2017 compared to how the 07-08 plates are now - some of which still preform like new with minimal rattles.

The B7TLs and B7RLEs in Glasgow are quite worn and tired, hopefully withdrawals will be done on the basis of condition rather than age as some of the 54 plates (B7RLEs) are better than the 06 plates. I do think there will be another big order in 2021, but i doubt i'll be anywhere near on the scale of last years order.

The E400s in question would be Euro 5 examples, so yes the 12/14 plates.

 

[route101]

Not running it from Dumbarton depot might have helped, far too much running to and from the depot. Not sure the limited stop approach would be of benefit outside of the peak period either. Just went searching for an image of one of the Darts used, surprised to see the X17 dates back over a decade.
http://www.gcsbromleygarage.com/1276archive/The 1276-Busstop-First Glasgow/Current Fleet - Midibuses 2004-01-01 to 2010-01-12/slides/fig4095101231208.html

Totally forgot about the X17 , better if it was run from Scotstoun .

 

[route101]

Its always been a nightmare there but I don't think there are any palatable options.

They not building a bridge at Clydebank ?

 

[route101]

The worst tailback I ever got stuck in for that bit was when I was heading towards Dumbarton. It started at Glasgow Airport. Think it took about 3 hours to get through. Delayed myself by stupidly thinking diving through Bowling after I got off the bridge would save time. It didn't!

No inclement weather. No accidents. Just volume of traffic.

Was in a rental van trying to do a house move. Timing couldn't have been worse.

(Sorry swerving off topic - in my defence a E300 on the 1 was stuck with me in Bowling!)

Intersting , the Erskine bridge is usually quiet whenever i go over .

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If the Streetdecks are cheaper then First will jump on that. We’ll see though... I can see it being another order of E200MMCs and/or E400MMCs.

Agree with Jordan - I don't see them getting Streetdecks when they've just got a received a load of ADL fleet in Glasgow and with the exception of Leeds (oddly), First have gone for e400mmc on either ADL or Scania chassis for the last couple of years.

Streetdecks are ok in certain operating territories. They're fine for working in places like Norwich or Leicester. However, hills aren't good nor extended periods of high speed running. Sheffield were continuing to get them til last year but have just offloaded some to Leicester, replaced by B9TLs.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Agree with Jordan - I don't see them getting Streetdecks when they've just got a received a load of ADL fleet in Glasgow and with the exception of Leeds (oddly), First have gone for e400mmc on either ADL or Scania chassis for the last couple of years.

Streetdecks are ok in certain operating territories. They're fine for working in places like Norwich or Leicester. However, hills aren't good nor extended periods of high speed running. Sheffield were continuing to get them til last year but have just offloaded some to Leicester, replaced by B9TLs.

I can’t really think of a plausible reason why they would have a mainly ADL fleet then go for a completely different type for the sake of a few more buses. I can’t think of a route in Glasgow which they would operate on. The 5 is the only one I can really think of. The 60/60A I think will eventually go E400MMC operation like the 41 eventually and will be branded I Think. Failing that what other route could operate the Streetdecks?

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Bad photos (caught in the horrid rain) but 2 38 branded E400MMCs one after the other on the 46 and 60.

 

[lastbus]

So what happening on the 2nd February?

• PM0000006/357 Registered
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Hamilton Bus Station to Buchanan Bus Station via Blantyre, Cambuslang, Rutherglen
  Service number: 267 ()
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 02 Feb 2020
  
  
• PM0000006/354 Registered
  FIRT GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Hamilton Bus Station to Buchanan Bus Station via Uddingston, Tollcross, Parkhead
  Service number: 255 ()
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 02 Feb 2020
  
  
• PM0000006/5 Registered
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Pather or Overtown or Motherwell to Glasgow Bus Station
  Service number: 240 ()
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 02 Feb 2020
  
  
• PM0000006/2 Registered
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Hamilton Bus Station to Buchanan Bus Station
  Service number: 263 ()
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 02 Feb 2020
  
  
• PM0000001/413 Registered (Short notice)
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Westburn or Rutherglen to Summerston via City Centre
  Service number: 7 (7A)
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 15 Dec 2019
  
  
• PM0000001/538 Registered
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Killermont Street to Stobhill Hospital
  Service number: 128 ()
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 20 Jan 2020

I expect more changes over the coming weeks.

 

[awsnews]

Pretty sure I saw 69122 working the 206 in Dumbarton this evening, the working it was on wasn't tracking so no means of verifying if I have gotten a correct id.

 

[scosutsut]

There are plans to address the 'weak link' in the road network between Bowling and Dumbuck as part of the Glasgow City Deal, this will see a road through the old oil terminal site.

This is excellent news, I hope some bus priority is built in but I doubt it!

 

[PaulMc7]

This is excellent news, I hope some bus priority is built in but I doubt it!

That's how I see it too tbh although even just having a 2nd road might make buses more reliable anyway. Not the only area the 1s struggle to stay on time in tbh though

 

[69036]

Pretty sure I saw 69122 working the 206 in Dumbarton this evening, the working it was on wasn't tracking so no means of verifying if I have gotten a correct id.

69122 has made the move to Dumbarton indeed.

 

[awsnews]

69122 has made the move to Dumbarton indeed.

Thanks, next challenge will be to find it in daylight!
61653 doesn't appear to be in use. It was reported as withdrawn in the current PSVC newsheets despite only recently having been MOTd and taxed for another year. If it has gone it just leaves 61604 and 61609 in Barbie.

 

[69036]

Thanks, next challenge will be to find it in daylight!
61653 doesn't appear to be in use. It was reported as withdrawn in the current PSVC newsheets despite only recently having been MOTd and taxed for another year. If it has gone it just leaves 61604 and 61609 in Barbie.

69122 has replaced 61653 indeed

 

[JumpinTrainz]

How many buses came down from Aberdeen and are we expecting that they will all go to
Dumbarton to replace the B10BLEs?

 

[scosutsut]

That's how I see it too tbh although even just having a 2nd road might make buses more reliable anyway. Not the only area the 1s struggle to stay on time in tbh though

True. The Glasgow City Deal pages I found were vague but one had a link to a WDC page which is a dead link. Archive pulls out: https://web.archive.org/web/2015080...ation/infrastructure-investment-plan/bowling/ which is less vague but stops short of plans - the combination of both doesn't stir ones hopes if I'm honest.

 

[lastbus]

How many buses came down from Aberdeen and are we expecting that they will all go to
Dumbarton to replace the B10BLEs?

2 so no there are B7RLEs currently on loan to Scotstoun which will move to Dumbarton in the coming months.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

Next Friday/Saturday the B7RLEs are due to move to Dumbarton