First Greater Glasgow

[92002]

The 2 and 3 get them on occasion too to be fair. I think things must have been relaxed a lot at Scotstoun as far as allocations go. The E400s have been popping up on everything recently. The only Scotstoun based services I've not seen one on in the past month are the M11 and M60. The M11 can't use double deckers due to the low bridge at the bottom of Kilbowie Road but at one point, double deckers did appear on the M60 a lot especially in 2018 and 2019.

Something different for today with 64117 working a 60.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Something different for today with 64117 working a 60.

The E200EVs are quite regularly on the 60/60A.

 

[PaulMc7]

Does anyone know when we are likely to see the new timetables up for the service changes? Personally, I think that they should be available to view as soon as the changes are registered. It would give passengers an idea into what the service will be like especially if cuts to frequency are involved.

 

[GusB]

Does anyone know when we are likely to see the new timetables up for the service changes? Personally, I think that they should be available to view as soon as the changes are registered. It would give passengers an idea into what the service will be like especially if cuts to frequency are involved.

I'm not sure that this is a good idea. By all means publicise the service changes before they actually take effect, but if they're posted too far in advance you run the risk of people relying on the wrong timetable.

 

[PaulMc7]

I'm not sure that this is a good idea. By all means publicise the service changes before they actually take effect, but if they're posted too far in advance you run the risk of people relying on the wrong timetable.

As long as they're separated properly through a forthcoming section like First currently use then that shouldn't happen unless people make their own mistakes. The public should be made aware as soon as possible given that they keep the company in profit.

The other issue is bus stops being updated properly but I doubt First will take responsibility for that and leave it to SPT again.

 

[GusB]

As long as they're separated properly through a forthcoming section like First currently use then that shouldn't happen unless people make their own mistakes. The public should be made aware as soon as possible given that they keep the company in profit.

The other issue is bus stops being updated properly but I doubt First will take responsibility for that and leave it to SPT again.

The company should advertise any timetable changes far enough ahead in order to allow people to adjust any travel plans, but it really doesn't have to be weeks in advance.

 

[PaulMc7]

The company should advertise any timetable changes far enough ahead in order to allow people to adjust any travel plans, but it really doesn't have to be weeks in advance.

A month isn't that far in advance to be honest. That's not really a big ask especially given that work travel plans could change for people too as a result of them. The other issue with reductions too is that extra delays normally occur as a result of having less buses on the road so it can make quite a difference in the plans people make.

 

[92002]

The E200EVs are quite regularly on the 60/60A.

This one would be just a bit busy. In town heading East around 1715. May be just a few standing.

 

[Jarcoed]

There's only a few more Enviro400 EV's due, they seem to show up mostly on the 5, 10, 19, 38, 46, 57/57A, 60/60A, 61 and 75. They've also surprisingly become popular on the 41 which wasn't expected, seeing that route already has branded MMC's.

 

[PaulMc7]

There's only a few more Enviro400 EV's due, they seem to show up mostly on the 5, 10, 19, 38, 46, 57/57A, 60/60A, 61 and 75. They've also surprisingly become popular on the 41 which wasn't expected, seeing that route already has branded MMC's.

The 41 is really suitable for them to be fair as it's not a long route and not a very hilly route either.

I wouldn't say any allocation out of Caledonia is really a surprise to be fair as buses haven't really stuck to specific routes since that depot opened.

The only way Caledonia could surprise us is if they bought new buses and didn't announce that this was the case or when they'd be delivered but in the days of inside sources being something people have, I'm sure the information would get out one way or another.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The 41 is really suitable for them to be fair as it's not a long route and not a very hilly route either.

I wouldn't say any allocation out of Caledonia is really a surprise to be fair as buses haven't really stuck to specific routes since that depot opened.

The only way Caledonia could surprise us is if they bought new buses and didn't announce that this was the case or when they'd be delivered but in the days of inside sources being something people have, I'm sure the information would get out one way or another.

Agreed on the 41. I think it the branded 66 plates go to Essex as planned - the route will most likely end up E400EV operated.

The 61 is pretty much 100% EV operated now except for evenings.

I imagine in the next 2 years we’ll see another big EV order to start replacing the B9TLs.

 

[PaulMc7]

Agreed on the 41. I think it the branded 66 plates go to Essex as planned - the route will most likely end up E400EV operated.

The 61 is pretty much 100% EV operated now except for evenings.

I imagine in the next 2 years we’ll see another big EV order to start replacing the B9TLs.

I do wonder just how many plans Covid changed with the fleet. I'd also love to know how many buses are required now compared to pre-covid. I think the driver situation will dictate a lot of what happens next because if we end up with drivers coming in at a quicker rate then more buses could easily be required if passenger loads continue to grow.

I remember the 77 being tipped for electric double deckers at one point and moving to Caledonia but now that wouldn't need to happen with Scotstoun getting the infrastructure for charging electric vehicles.

I also wonder if viable alternatives to the E200EVs and E400EVs will ever be tried by First here. If the Yutongs work well in Aberdeen when they arrive there, they could become an option and from my experience of them with Mcgills I'd definitely be fine with that as the ones we have now feel very cramped in compared to the Yutongs.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I do wonder just how many plans Covid changed with the fleet. I'd also love to know how many buses are required now compared to pre-covid. I think the driver situation will dictate a lot of what happens next because if we end up with drivers coming in at a quicker rate then more buses could easily be required if passenger loads continue to grow.

I remember the 77 being tipped for electric double deckers at one point and moving to Caledonia but now that wouldn't need to happen with Scotstoun getting the infrastructure for charging electric vehicles.

I also wonder if viable alternatives to the E200EVs and E400EVs will ever be tried by First here. If the Yutongs work well in Aberdeen when they arrive there, they could become an option and from my experience of them with Mcgills I'd definitely be fine with that as the ones we have now feel very cramped in compared to the Yutongs.

The 77 would suit E400EVs. It’s a relatively short but busy route. Also the 34 has E200EVs already so would be good to have the hospital links mainly electric. Who knows the 16 may eventually see E200EVs too once the charging ports are fitted.

I was disappointed Scotstoun isn’t getting Yutongs. They really are the superior product over the E200EVs and they have much better range. I really thought they would have suited the 2 and 3 routes which are fairly long. Not to mention the depot runs from Baillieston back to Scotstoun. I’m not sure how that’ll work but time will only tell.

In terms of previous plans being altered due to Covid - I do know there was talk of the 1 services going fully decker operated with a route alteration. They’ll be glad they didn’t do that now as there are literally no deckers on the 1 services anymore. The B9TLs have been redeployed to Caledonia and Scotstoun.

 

[PaulMc7]

The 77 would suit E400EVs. It’s a relatively short but busy route. Also the 34 has E200EVs already so would be good to have the hospital links mainly electric. Who knows the 16 may eventually see E200EVs too once the charging ports are fitted.

I was disappointed Scotstoun isn’t getting Yutongs. They really are the superior product over the E200EVs and they have much better range. I really thought they would have suited the 2 and 3 routes which are fairly long. Not to mention the depot runs from Baillieston back to Scotstoun. I’m not sure how that’ll work but time will only tell.

In terms of previous plans being altered due to Covid - I do know there was talk of the 1 services going fully decker operated with a route alteration. They’ll be glad they didn’t do that now as there are literally no deckers on the 1 services anymore. The B9TLs have been redeployed to Caledonia and Scotstoun.

The only thing that would stop the 16 going electric is the fact it interworks with the 8 to be honest. The dead mileage for the 2 and 6 does add up fairly quickly and it's why I'm surprised both became operated by Scotstoun only. There are certainly a few routes from Caledonia that could be split between depots to split the 2 and 6 again though if required at any point.

The 1s with double deckers would certainly be handy. Some of the peak time ones are covered by double deckers and a lot of them can be full or close to it unless another bus turns up at the same time. I've not used them down Dumbarton way in a while but they seem busier down that way too from what I've noticed on the app in terms of seats free. I may take a trip if the weather clears up just to see for myself but I'd not be surprised if they were busier due to the amount of issues with the trains.

I'd also be interested to see if the night buses were profitable again. They've seemed very hit or miss in terms of passenger numbers from what I've noticed on the app. I don't personally use them now though as I don't really go out as I don't drink.

 

[GusB]

A month isn't that far in advance to be honest. That's not really a big ask especially given that work travel plans could change for people too as a result of them. The other issue with reductions too is that extra delays normally occur as a result of having less buses on the road so it can make quite a difference in the plans people make.

Does the average punter really care how far in advance changes are notified? As long as there's a poster on the bus a week or two ahead of time, and timely social media updates, it should be fine. I can't imagine anyone planning their travel to work so far in advance unless it was a long-distance journey. From my own experience, I've sometimes only found out about timetable changes when I've actually arrived at the stop and discovered that the bus hasn't turned up as expected!

A month isn't that far in advance to be honest. That's not really a big ask especially given that work travel plans could change for people too as a result of them. The other issue with reductions too is that extra delays normally occur as a result of having less buses on the road so it can make quite a difference in the plans people make.

Where are you getting this "month" figure from?

According to the Government:

Run a local bus service

Run a bus service in and out of London - registering, London Service Permit, bus registration, public service vehicle operator’s licence, PSV

www.gov.uk

You must tell the local authority in England or the local council in Scotland that you’re changing or cancelling a bus service. You must do this 28 days before you apply to the traffic commissioner.

Apply to the traffic commissioner at least 42 days before your service changes or stops - or 56 days before if your service is in Wales.

In a previous post you said:

Does anyone know when we are likely to see the new timetables up for the service changes? Personally, I think that they should be available to view as soon as the changes are registered. It would give passengers an idea into what the service will be like especially if cuts to frequency are involved.

Forgive me if I'm getting my figures wrong here, but 28 days' notice is required to be given to the relevant local authorities, then at least 42 days to the Traffic Commissioner. Adding the two together gives a total of 60. That's not a month, either.

 

[PaulMc7]

Does the average punter really care how far in advance changes are notified? As long as there's a poster on the bus a week or two ahead of time, and timely social media updates, it should be fine. I can't imagine anyone planning their travel to work so far in advance unless it was a long-distance journey. From my own experience, I've sometimes only found out about timetable changes when I've actually arrived at the stop and discovered that the bus hasn't turned up as expected!


Where are you getting this "month" figure from?

According to the Government:

Run a local bus service

Run a bus service in and out of London - registering, London Service Permit, bus registration, public service vehicle operator’s licence, PSV

www.gov.uk

In a previous post you said:



Forgive me if I'm getting my figures wrong here, but 28 days' notice is required to be given to the relevant local authorities, then at least 42 days to the Traffic Commissioner. Adding the two together gives a total of 60. That's not a month, either.

The current set of changes only went through 2 days ago hence why I said a month as it was a month until the changes take place. Ideally, we all should know as soon as they're registered.

Informing your customers of changes as soon as possible should be a very basic thing to do as it not only advises them of what to expect but it also saves the social media team from being bombarded by people asking about the changes too.

I've certainly made plans for previous jobs/college and my route to them around a month in advance and I've chosen to apply or not apply to jobs in certain areas due to changes before. Having the information makes planning anything so much easier.

Ideally, bus stops will be updated for that day too but I highly doubt that will happen given that some stops haven't even been updated by SPT to the current timetables.

 

[GusB]

The current set of changes only went through 2 days ago hence why I said a month as it was a month until the changes take place. Ideally, we all should know as soon as they're registered.

Informing your customers of changes as soon as possible should be a very basic thing to do as it not only advises them of what to expect but it also saves the social media team from being bombarded by people asking about the changes too.

I've certainly made plans for previous jobs/college and my route to them around a month in advance and I've chosen to apply or not apply to jobs in certain areas due to changes before. Having the information makes planning anything so much easier.

Ideally, bus stops will be updated for that day too but I highly doubt that will happen given that some stops haven't even been updated by SPT to the current timetables.

That's fine - you do your thing.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, I'll do mine.

 

[Volvodart]

The company should advertise any timetable changes far enough ahead in order to allow people to adjust any travel plans, but it really doesn't have to be weeks in advance.

Not now, but prior to moving this work to Larbert and now Glasgow, First Aberdeen used to notify changes 3 weeks before they took place.

 

[Whiteway215]

There's only a few more Enviro400 EV's due, they seem to show up mostly on the 5, 10, 19, 38, 46, 57/57A, 60/60A, 61 and 75. They've also surprisingly become popular on the 41 which wasn't expected, seeing that route already has branded MMC's.

So many of these have gone into service recently but have they replaced anything? Presumably some B9TLs would become available for cascade.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Up to 38490 is now in service. I have managed to photograph all of them except for one! (38471).

38490 - LG72EBA

Seen at Balornock East Terminus is the newest First Glasgow Alexander Dennis Enviro 400EV City bodied BYD electric double decker in the form of 38490 - LG72EBA.

flic.kr

 

[jazza374]

A month isn't that far in advance to be honest. That's not really a big ask especially given that work travel plans could change for people too as a result of them. The other issue with reductions too is that extra delays normally occur as a result of having less buses on the road so it can make quite a difference in the plans people make.

Downside of early publication of changes is potential confusion to the public and that is it gives any competition you have advance sight of what you are going to do and gives them time to respond with changes of their own.

 

[PaulMc7]

Downside of early publication of changes is potential confusion to the public and that is it gives any competition you have advance sight of what you are going to do and gives them time to respond with changes of their own.

First don't really have competition through other bus companies in a lot of Glasgow though so that wouldn't really apply. There is some competition but nowhere near enough for that to be an issue.

As for confusion, First have a forthcoming section anyway for new timetables on their website so as long as they're put there the only way confusion can happen is if someone clicks on the wrong section. Loads of people who don't use the app or website have spent most of covid confused given that timetables were never updated until recently either.

 

[ScotRail158725]

So many of these have gone into service recently but have they replaced anything? Presumably some B9TLs would become available for cascade.

B9TLs wont be going anywhere anytime soon due to them being part of the Scottish Governments Euro 6 funding. They’ve still got 4 years left up here

 

[homsey52]

The current set of changes only went through 2 days ago hence why I said a month as it was a month until the changes take place. Ideally, we all should know as soon as they're registered.

Informing your customers of changes as soon as possible should be a very basic thing to do as it not only advises them of what to expect but it also saves the social media team from being bombarded by people asking about the changes too.

I've certainly made plans for previous jobs/college and my route to them around a month in advance and I've chosen to apply or not apply to jobs in certain areas due to changes before. Having the information makes planning anything so much easier.

Ideally, bus stops will be updated for that day too but I highly doubt that will happen given that some stops haven't even been updated by SPT to the current timetables.

Go into VOSA and search PM numbers for services; the changes were notified to VOSAon 23rd December 2022 for 5th February changes which is six weeks, 44days.

 

[SarahDFIG]

B9TLs wont be going anywhere anytime soon due to them being part of the Scottish Governments Euro 6 funding. They’ve still got 4 years left up here

They can still be sold or repurposed under the Euro 6 retrofit programme. The operator has to write to the government to amend its terms and get consent before doing so. So they can leave Scotland before this term if consent is given, which if First say to the Scottish gov they want to replace with EVs I think there would be no hesitation from the Scottish government.

Alternatively, operators may wish to sell or repurpose a BEAR vehicle within the 5 year commitment term to facilitate the earlier adoption of zero emission buses. As a zero emission bus would also deliver the environmental and air quality objectives of BEAR, operators would therefore not be precluded from applying to replace the bus with a zero-emission alternative, or repowering the bus to be zero-emission, or from applying for subsidy to do so. In such cases operators should write to Scottish Ministers at the above address to gain consent in advance of any change taking place.

 

[route101]

Does anyone know when we are likely to see the new timetables up for the service changes? Personally, I think that they should be available to view as soon as the changes are registered. It would give passengers an idea into what the service will be like especially if cuts to frequency are involved.

First usually have the new and current timetables up when there is a change.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2023 ==

I saw E400evs on the 46 earlier, which I thought was a little odd.

The B9TLs are probably the most comfortable buses to ride at the moment.

 

[PaulMc7]

First usually have the new and current timetables up when there is a change.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2023 ==

Seen E400evs on the 46 earlier, I thought that was a little odd.

The B9TLs are probably the most comfortable buses to ride at the moment.

Hopefully they're up during this week coming up. The 46 has had E400EVs on most days from what I've noticed. It's a service that has really benefited from them coming in.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

First usually have the new and current timetables up when there is a change.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2023 ==

I saw E400evs on the 46 earlier, which I thought was a little odd.

The B9TLs are probably the most comfortable buses to ride at the moment.

I was in Easterhouse yesterday photographing the 400EVs that I needed (now have 84/85 on the road). The EVs were everywhere working the 19, 38, 41, 46 60 & 60A!

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Sorry if this has been answered before but how many more E400EVs are due and is there any word on the remaining E200EVs from the original order?

 

[ScotRail158725]

Sorry if this has been answered before but how many more E400EVs are due and is there any word on the remaining E200EVs from the original order?

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