First Greater Glasgow

[ScotRail158725]

When will the final Geminis be seen off?

Theres about 100 still in the fleet almost all of which are euro 6 B9TLs so not for another few years

 

[Rory N]

Theres about 100 still in the fleet almost all of which are euro 6 B9TLs so not for another few years

I imagine that B7s will all be withdrawn by the end of this year. B9s will be lurking about for another few years.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

When will the final Geminis be seen off?

It’ll be a sad day indeed, I know that much.

 

[PaulMc7]

The 2 seems to be back to more single decker than double again this week. 3 days out of 4 with a single decker for my morning bus and it didn't run on Monday.

A lot of the evening peak ones unfortunately get cut at Scotstoun due to having no driver to change over. I do wonder if every 15 mins with all double decker would work but I doubt it'll happen even though it would need less drivers.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The 2 seems to be back to more single decker than double again this week. 3 days out of 4 with a single decker for my morning bus and it didn't run on Monday.

A lot of the evening peak ones unfortunately get cut at Scotstoun due to having no driver to change over. I do wonder if every 15 mins with all double decker would work but I doubt it'll happen even though it would need less drivers.

I noticed that today. Definitely more E300s on the route than deckers. I hope the new buses get announced soon for the 2 as the E300s are tired inside.

 

[PaulMc7]

I noticed that today. Definitely more E300s on the route than deckers. I hope the new buses get announced soon for the 2 as the E300s are tired inside.

I fully agree. The E300s are ageing dreadfully. The seats badly need replaced too.

 

[Joerf21]

I can't understand First Glasgow's thinking when they're buying so many single deckers. With free travel for 22s and under, plus a big return from working from home, it should be buying more deckers.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I can't understand First Glasgow's thinking when they're buying so many single deckers. With free travel for 22s and under, plus a big return from working from home, it should be buying more deckers.

They will see 91 double deck EVs enter the fleet in total with some already here.

I imagine there will also be more orders to come as the B9TLs begin to age. I hope they branch out from the E400EVs and go with buses with higher range. They will run into some problems eventually as the current EVs have such low range.

 

[Whiteway215]

They will see 91 double deck EVs enter the fleet in total with some already here.

I imagine there will also be more orders to come as the B9TLs begin to age. I hope they branch out from the E400EVs and go with buses with higher range. They will run into some problems eventually as the current EVs have such low range.

When is the next batch of double deck EVs due for delivery?

 

[JumpinTrainz]

When is the next batch of double deck EVs due for delivery?

I believe someone said October although I’m not 100% sure. There are also some E200EVs due I’m sure and that’ll be the last of the order

 

[Rory N]

I believe someone said October although I’m not 100% sure. There are also some E200EVs due I’m sure and that’ll be the last of the order

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Sep 2022 ==

When is the next batch of double deck EVs due for delivery?

I believe around October/November. They should be registered as 72 plates.

 

[route101]

I can't understand First Glasgow's thinking when they're buying so many single deckers. With free travel for 22s and under, plus a big return from working from home, it should be buying more deckers.

I think single deckers are cheaper. I am not sure there has been a big return to the office from what I've heard, not a full-time return.

 

[PaulMc7]

I think single deckers are cheaper. I am not sure there has been a big return to the office from what I've heard, not a full-time return.

It's picked up compared to before the summer as the morning peak is beginning to show but it's definitely a long way from pre-covid. Off peak travel is a bigger issue from experience though. Cuts to off peak services aren't far away IMO

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

It's picked up compared to before the summer as the morning peak is beginning to show but it's definitely a long way from pre-covid. Off peak travel is a bigger issue from experience though. Cuts to off peak services aren't far away IMO

The pick up from before the summer seems to be mostly U22 passes tbh.

But I do believe all core routes need to be decker operation (where clearance allows)

 

[PaulMc7]

The pick up from before the summer seems to be mostly U22 passes tbh.

But I do believe all core routes need to be decker operation (where clearance allows)

On the 1s and 2s in particular, a lot of school kids always used them pre under 22 passes but there are definitely extra people going back to offices as well now. It'll be interesting to see if the universities starting over the next 2 weeks again will add a lot to the passenger loads.

I definitely agree that they need more double deckers on a lot of services. Less frequent services with more double deckers might be the way forward to be honest. I don't see the driver situation getting much better over the next 12 months.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

On the 1s and 2s in partic, a lot of school kids always used them pre under 22 passes but there are definitely extra people going back to offices as well now.thed'll be interesting to see if the universities starting over the next 2 weeks again will add a lot to the pas senger loads.

I definitely agree that they need more double deckers on a lot of services. Less frequent services with more double deckers might be the way forward to be honest. I don't see the driver situation getting much better over the next 12 months.

Not 100% sure the universities and colleges will make a huge up lift as many are still going to be hybrid or completely remote

 

[PaulMc7]

Not 100% sure the universities and colleges will make a huge up lift as many are still going to be hybrid or completely remote

I think there will be cuts in October regardless anyway with funding being cut and to be honest I don't think any services are particularly safe from any cuts whether it's to route or frequency. I'd even expect some of the strongest routes to see frequency reductions.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Oops, this post turned out to be far longer than I was envisaging! I've hidden the long parts in "spoiler" tags but in short:

• I've made a spreadsheet analysing data relating to vehicles and routes for First Glasgow.
• The data in the sheet needs to be refreshed when you download it by pressing the "refresh" button on the sheet, but is otherwise "live".
• The data is pulled directly from bustimes.org so take it with a pinch of salt.
• A screenshot of the sheet is attached to this post but unfortunately you will need to download and open the sheet on your own computer in order to refresh and get the most recent data.
• The sheet can be downloaded from my folder online (https://github.com/40414148/Transport-Published, go to the "Bustimes Fleet Data Analysis" folder and click "First Glasgow") or the direct download link is here).

Spoiler: Preamble and Description of Features

Thought I'd share a data analysis spreadsheet I made for vehicle data, I made it for myself but found it interesting. I've loaded it for First Glasgow here but it should work for any bus company with Fleet data on bustimes.org. If you would like it for any other bus company then either mention it here or tag me on the relevant thread.

The sheet shows a breakdown and basic analysis of the Fleet data held on bustimes.org. Specifically:

• Total vehicles in the fleet;
• Conflicting registration numbers and fleet numbers (was mainly for me to make sure I was only counting each vehicle once);
• Proportion of the fleet with a route history available, as a percent out of the total fleet;
• Info on vehicle types:
  • A list of all the unique vehicle types in the fleet;
  • How many vehicles of each type are in the fleet;
  • A mini graphic depicting the proportion of the fleet which is made up of each vehicle type.
• Info on vehicle liveries:
  • A list of all the unique liveries in the fleet;
  • How many vehicles with each livery are in the fleet;
  • A mini graphic depicting the proportion of the fleet which is made up of each livery.
• Info on routes:
  • A list of all the routes which have tracking history;
  • How many vehicles have tracking history for each route;
  • A mini graphic depicting the proportion of vehicles which have tracking history for each route, out of all vehicles with tracking history.
• Info on vehicle types by route:
  • A list of the most common vehicle type used on each route.

As always with bustimes.org, take the data with a pinch of salt and don't take it as gospel. The data in the spreadsheet is taken directly from bustimes.org with minimal pre- and post-processing. Any errors in the data on bustimes.org will also be present in my spreadsheet.

Spoiler: Known Issues

There are some known issues with the sheet. For a full list see the file "Readme" contained in the same folder on GitHub, but in summary at the time of posting:

• As always with bustimes.org, take the data with a pinch of salt and don't take it as gospel. The data in the spreadsheet is taken directly from bustimes.org with minimal pre- and post-processing. Any errors in the data on bustimes.org will also be present in my spreadsheet.
• A timer has been included to show how old the displayed data is. The box containing the counter ("x days ago ...") updates only when you first open the sheet and is reset only when you refresh the data. The data can be refreshed easily by pressing the button "Refresh Data" located in cell A1 (top left).
• The data should be very quick to process with the exception of the final list (Vehicle Types by Route); this column may take slightly longer to load.
• There is a bug in the formula to load all the unique routes, which sometimes causes the sheet to omit routes. I think it is something to do with the order that each route is loaded and added to the list but I'm not sure what is causing it.
• The column headers in the raw data are appearing in each list. This should just be a case of me removing that row from the raw data but I'm lazy and haven't done it yet I didn't want to mess with the data and risk breaking the whole sheet.
• Bustimes.org sometimes retains route data for vehicles after they leave service, until they start a different route; this means that some vehicles might be recorded as being on a route when in reality they are not. This may be fixable in the future.
• I would like to have a "confidence" column next to the Routes by Vehicles list to show the quality of the data shown (at the moment a vehicle type will appear as a "top vehicle" if anything greater than 50% of the vehicles on that route are the given type, but there's nothing to distinguish between a route where 51% of the vehicles are the shown type and a route where 99% of the vehicles are the given type).

 

[92002]

On the 1s and 2s in particular, a lot of school kids always used them pre under 22 passes but there are definitely extra people going back to offices as well now. It'll be interesting to see if the universities starting over the next 2 weeks again will add a lot to the passenger loads.

I definitely agree that they need more double deckers on a lot of services. Less frequent services with more double deckers might be the way forward to be honest. I don't see the driver situation getting much better over the next 12 months.

Was part of a procession of a bunch of 4 2s yesterday heading West. Three of the four were double dockers and all were well filled.

Perhaps the East end football didn't make it a representative Saturday, since the game had finished. In days like these a short term split of services would help.With a Shettleston to City Centre shuttle.Since there was not much room for the regular passengers.

On normal days though three seems to be more double deckers. So the suggestion of orders for ev single deckers does seem a bit strange.

 

[PaulMc7]

Was part of a procession of a bunch of 4 2s yesterday heading West. Three of the four were double dockers and all were well filled.

Perhaps the East end football didn't make it a representative Saturday, since the game had finished. In days like these a short term split of services would help.With a Shettleston to City Centre shuttle.Since there was not much room for the regular passengers.

On normal days though three seems to be more double deckers. So the suggestion of orders for ev single deckers does seem a bit strange.

The football seems to absolutely kill reliability for the whole day now when it's an earlier game. When I looked on the app for a 2 at one point there was an hour between them. The 3 from experience is actually busier than the 2 sometimes and probably needs a frequency increase at peak times.

Having almost the worst reliability in the entire network probably adds to that though. A lot of the time after work there are 45-50 minute gaps between 3s when I go for one.

 

[route101]

It's picked up compared to before the summer as the morning peak is beginning to show but it's definitely a long way from pre-covid. Off peak travel is a bigger issue from experience though. Cuts to off peak services aren't far away IMO

I could be wrong but before the Overground concept started, frequent routes such as 66 ran every 20 minutes off peak.

 

[Stan Drews]

I could be wrong but before the Overground concept started, frequent routes such as 66 ran every 20 minutes off peak.

In the mid 90s the 66 ‘group’ ran every 10 minutes on the common section between Anniesland and Westwood. Each route (66, 66A & 66B) was half hourly.

 

[PaulMc7]

Are there any potential route changes that could make services busier? I do wonder if keeping this network as it is will help or not. It's been 9 years since Simplicity now too and the network is pretty stale.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Are there any potential route changes that could make services busier? I do wonder if keeping this network as it is will help or not. It's been 9 years since Simplicity now too and the network is pretty stale.

This idea that the network needs a simplicity style shakeup again doesn't make sense. Yes, there obviously could be changes made that would allow for better reliability and better profit having more people on fewer buses but another whole network shakeup really just isn’t needed.

 

[PaulMc7]

This idea that the network needs a simplicity style shakeup again doesn't make sense. Yes, there obviously could be changes made that would allow for better reliability and better profit having more people on fewer buses but another whole network shakeup really just isn’t needed.

If you want better reliability or profit it will take a lot of changes to get that to be honest. It's not one or two required.

 

[XAM2175]

It's been 9 years since Simplicity now too and the network is pretty stale.

Translation: "the network needs to be substantially modified because I'm bored of how it is now"

 

[ScotRail158725]

Translation: "the network needs to be substantially modified because I'm bored of how it is now"

pretty much, was about to say the same thing

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The Overground changes in 1999 were huge but there wasn’t really another major shake up until about 14 years later.

I imagine if First feel the network isn’t working they’ll act fast. I imagine they are happy with the current services.

 

[adrock1976]

This idea that the network needs a simplicity style shakeup again doesn't make sense. Yes, there obviously could be changes made that would allow for better reliability and serving the needs of passengers better by having more people on fewer buses but another whole network shakeup really just isn’t needed.

Fixed that for you

If you want better reliability or profit it will take a lot of changes to get that to be honest. It's not one or two required.

Some minor tweaks could be made to some routes. For example, I remember around 10-15 years or so ago that in the evenings, alternate journeys were diverted to cover a nearby quieter route e.g. the 9 covered the section of the 42 between Lincoln Avenue and Drumchapel (or something like that).

What is really needed not just in Glasgow but throughout the metropolitan areas of UK, is for the bus services to be run like how it is in London where TfL do things properly. Any service revisions have to be put out for consultation with a minimum of 26 weeks notice, all single fares are the same regardless who operates the routes, TfL specifies the type of vehicle to be used, all buses are in the exact same livery and not route branded (I can give leeway for the 500 that runs between Buchanan and the airport, and the Stagecoach X19 Clyde Fastlink), and the routes are a package of very busy, moderately busy, and quieter but socially necessary which are franchised.

Also, for all operators and not just FG, the requirement for concession card holders to state destination should be scrapped, which would help the bus to run to the advertised timetable. There is no requirement to state destination in London or my native West Midlands if using a concession card.

 

[PaulMc7]

Fixed that for you



Some minor tweaks could be made to some routes. For example, I remember around 10-15 years or so ago that in the evenings, alternate journeys were diverted to cover a nearby quieter route e.g. the 9 covered the section of the 42 between Lincoln Avenue and Drumchapel (or something like that).

What is really needed not just in Glasgow but throughout the metropolitan areas of UK, is for the bus services to be run like how it is in London where TfL do things properly. Any service revisions have to be put out for consultation with a minimum of 26 weeks notice, all single fares are the same regardless who operates the routes, TfL specifies the type of vehicle to be used, all buses are in the exact same livery and not route branded (I can give leeway for the 500 that runs between Buchanan and the airport, and the Stagecoach X19 Clyde Fastlink), and the routes are a package of very busy, moderately busy, and quieter but socially necessary which are franchised.

Also, for all operators and not just FG, the requirement for concession card holders to state destination should be scrapped, which would help the bus to run to the advertised timetable. There is no requirement to state destination in London or my native West Midlands if using a concession card.

I'm glad someone has mentioned the need to state destination with pass holders. On my bus in the morning, the schoolkids have to do it too and given that the under 22 passes don't scan particularly quickly you can imagine how much time it eats away.

I get it from making sure the bus is the right one but a lot of pass holders use the same buses at the same times most days from experience.

I vaguely remember the old 9A covering the 42 route between Scotstoun and Drumchapel. We do definitely need a shake up like that plus I believe that a Simplicity style set of changes will get less backlash than just hammering cuts constantly. There is a driver shortage and things need to be changed if you don't want to lose even more passengers. First need to remember that most passengers will blame them and only them for the driver shortages so need to learn to adjust more quickly to it than they have.