First generation units vs Second generation units

[aspierail]

Do you prefer first generation units or second generation units and why?

 

[jopsuk]

can I confuse things by arguing that the 16x and 17x are perhaps a third generation, distinct from the 14x and 15x classes?

 

[dk1]

Do you prefer first generation units or second generation units and why?

When i started in 84 i used to slate big time them bloody Cravens 105s every day that i got the 05.54 Yarmouth-Norwich & was bone-shaken into life with them rattling windows, draughts, fumes, bright lightbulbs & ice on the inside as not started up til 05.30 & heating cr*p anyway.

Would pay damn good money for the privelage now. Funny old world.

 

[yorksrob]

can I confuse things by arguing that the 16x and 17x are perhaps a third generation, distinct from the 14x and 15x classes?

Also, on many parts of the Southern, we are now on 3rd generation units

 

[poshbakerloo]

second generation units

Where would we be with out the 156s!? And i got my hand trapped in class 101 door, then I was 11!!! urgh

 

[CarterUSM]

Poshbakerloo, you are hilarious! I assure you that I mean that as a compliment also! I've worked on both, 101's and sprinters, and I definately prefer the latter, for travelling and for working.

 

[EM2]

Are we talking EMU or DMU?

 

[CarterUSM]

Sorry, if it's also EMU then I loved the old 303's, I worked on them as a ticket examiner before they went out of service for the 334's, but I preferred the 318's overall, very fast and more comfortable.

 

[Old Timer]

Nothing to beat a Met Cam, especially the first class seating which you just sunk into.

 

[Aictos]

I've grown up on second generation DMUs/EMUs and now third generation DMUs/EMUs but I especially loved travelling on the 117 that the Nene Valley had and can only dream about what it must have been like on the mainline.

 

[yorksrob]

Whilst there are plenty of second (or third - depending on where you are talking about) generation units which I have grown to admire and enjoy very much, it's probably evident from my avatar which my all-time favourites are.

Also, I presume the IC125 counts as a first generation unit?

 

[90019]

Also, I presume the IC125 counts as a first generation unit?

I wouldn't say so, I'd say they were second.

 

[thefab444]

In terms of DMUs, I'd definately go for second generation, although some of the 14x units may be a bit poor, the 158s and 159s are generally good units, and these are the only second generation DMUs we see down here (apart from the odd 150 and 153).

 

[Murph]

I prefer both 1st & 2nd gen for different reasons, both mainly based on experiences on the Edinburgh - Fife - Dundee services.

Class 101: Nice bit of good old British post-war engineering, fairly comfortable, and normally able to watch the driver at work and track ahead, travelling on my discounted RailRiders tickets (big childhood nostalgia element to the 101s for me). Proper guard's/luggage compartment, etc.

Class 150/156: They felt light years ahead of the 101s, faster and safer. No question in my mind that they were a big step forwards. From a pure getting from A to B perspective, the 101s couldn't possibly compete. Not nearly as much charm and character as the 101s, however.

 

[Oswyntail]

can I confuse things by arguing that the 16x and 17x are perhaps a third generation, distinct from the 14x and 15x classes?

And there are plenty of pre-"First generation" units - the lovely wooden wardrobes on the Lancaster-Morecambe line for instance!
But that is all nostalgia and rose-tinted glasses. Modern stock is far better.

 

[Old Timer]

. Modern stock is far better.

This being the stock that doesn't work when it snows, when its too hot, when it rains, when there is ice ?

Stock which is so complicated electrically that it has to stop and have its computers rebooted on a regular basis ?

Stock which thinks it is a 12 when its an 8 ?

Stock which has coupling problems ?

Stock which even thoughy only a few years old is already showing signs of being "tired"

Stock which fails if it ever runs over anything, even bags of rubbish ?

If this modern stock was given the same treatment as some of the first generation units were, then it is beyond question that it would fall apart. As for failure rates, I have experienced very few failures of old stock compared to the modern stock, and if there was a problem you simply banged one onto the rear and off you went. These days any failure tends to last for a good hour or sometimes two because faults tend to transfer between units, and new faults develop when they are coupled up. :roll::roll:

Modern stock may appeal to some through design but as far as build quality is concerned, and obviously its ability to last over a similar lifetime as the first generation DMUs/EMUs the Jury is definitely out but looks like agreeing in the negative

 

[chris89]

Had to say Second Generation. As i am too young to have gone on First (born 89).

For Second Generation would have to be Class 150/2's

But then are becoming more keen on 3rd Gen which Voyagers, Class 350's etc all come under.

Chris.

 

[Old Timer]

Just as a point of interest, and with no offence to anyone here, not least the last poster, but....how can anyone who has never experienced or worked with both first and second generation units possibly be in a position to vote ??

Only through having experienced both can one make an informed judgement ?

Its like asking people to compare a DC109 to a 737

 

[chris89]

Well i have gone on First Generation on Preserved lines, but have not when they were in mainline service.

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Can't beat 2nd Generation Southern Region EMUs (CEPs, CIGs, VEPs, EPBs, etc..).

But I think (But not to sure) the original Southern Railway EMUs would be classified as SR 1st generation units (2BILs, 4CORs, 6CIT, 5BEL, 6PUL etc..) are all our first generation units where I come from.

 

[Old Timer]

Well i have gone on First Generation on Preserved lines, but have not when they were in mainline service.

I did say it wasn't aimed at you, it was a general observation, old boy !

Can't beat 2nd Generation Southern Region EMUs (CEPs, CIGs, VEPs, EPBs, etc..).

But I think (But not to sure) the original Southern Railway EMUs would be classified as SR 1st generation units (2BILs, 4CORs, 6CIT, 5BEL, 6PUL etc..) are all our first generation units where I come from.

Indeed, old chap !

Bring back the 2 BIL that's what I say !

 

[SouthEastern-465]

I did say it wasn't aimed at you, it was a general observation, old boy !



Indeed, old chap !

Bring back the 2 BIL that's what I say !

For there day they was quite good looking units too! Wasn't they withdrawn way back in the 70s along with other SR 1st generation EMUs?

 

[Old Timer]

For there day they was quite good looking units too! Wasn't they withdrawn way back in the 70s along with other SR 1st generation EMUs?

Yes I rather liked the old SR stock, even today it brings back childhood memories of long hot summers travelling on the Southern.

Not sure if these new fangled 4Subs and EPBs will catch on though !

 

[Failed Unit]

This being the stock that doesn't work when it snows, when its too hot, when it rains, when there is ice ?

Which reminds me, why did Scotrail stop using the 170's on the Inverness - Edinburgh / Glasgow route when the snow was around at the start of the month? Was it because they didn't trust the 170's in the snow?

Back on topic, the 114's will always have a place in my heart but you can't really compare a 114 with a 158! Since the 114's left Market Rasen the line speed has increased and there is more CWR, so the track is also better. The draughts on the 114's were no pleasent in the winter from what I recall.

 

[Old Timer]

Which reminds me, why did Scotrail stop using the 170's on the Inverness - Edinburgh / Glasgow route when the snow was around at the start of the month? Was it because they didn't trust the 170's in the snow?.

What else could they use now the classic DMUs have gone ?

Back on topic, the 114's will always have a place in my heart but you can't really compare a 114 with a 158! Since the 114's left Market Rasen the line speed has increased and there is more CWR, so the track is also better. The draughts on the 114's were no pleasent in the winter from what I recall.

Ah but the smell of burning paraffin !

 

[yorksrob]

I'm rather sad that I never got to travel on one of the PAN/PUL units. They looked quite plush

 

[delt1c]

Rose tinted Specs.
Yes I miss the 1st gen units , but the 2nd generation are a vast improvement, imagine a winter journey, nose burning due to fumes , knees frozen due to drafts , have of you sweating and the other half freezing , the joys of 1st gen units. As for padded seats that was to compensate for poor damping of the units. Even worse on a 105 when internal vibration noise deafened you.
As for suburban units (often used on long routes) they had to be travelled on to be believed. Yes lovely on a summers day on a preserved line with window open, try using them daily throughout the year.
Now a 156 or 158 is a vast improvement on a 101 or a 108 or even a 120. As for a 153 that leaves a 121 or a 122 at the starting gate. Even Sprinters are an improvement over what we had in the 70's.
As for Turbo stars no 1st gen unit comes near them.

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Yes I rather liked the old SR stock, even today it brings back childhood memories of long hot summers travelling on the Southern.

Not sure if these new fangled 4Subs and EPBs will catch on though !

EPBs are lovely units! But the 1st generation units look lovely too, couldn'y imagine how hot it would be in one of those in the summer!

I think there are about 3 or 4 types of SUB some of which are 1st generation units and 2nd generation units. (1925 Batch, and then the 1946 Batch what are very similar to the EPB design than there are the BR 1948 & 1949 Batches of SUBs which I would of thought would of been classed as 2nd Generation units? These are also very similar to EPBs.)

 

[Murph]

EPBs are lovely units! But the 1st generation units look lovely too, couldn'y imagine how hot it would be in one of those in the summer!

The 1st gen units all had special zero-energy air conditioning for the summer months. It was really clever and fully passenger operated, in the form of special sliding devices which could open or close a large variety of variable transparent apertures to fine-tune air flow throughout the carriage.

Seriously though, it's been a very long time, but I don't remember significant issues with summer cooling thanks to all the opening windows. The best comparison is probably sitting in the shade of a nice tree on a hot summers day (as long as the train was moving, or sufficient external breeze to do the job when stationary). That's from a ScotRail perspective, I guess it might have been different in the south.

 

[yorkie]

Had to say Second Generation. As i am too young to have gone on First (born 89).

So you're too young to do Cardif Queen St - Cardiff Bay or Aylesbury to Princes Risborough at the age of 20/21? Or Sheffield-Manchester at the age of 14?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Do Thumpers count as "1st generation DMUs"? I thought they were rather seperate, I thought of them more as Mk1 EMUs but with a diesel engine inside. I thought of a 1st gen DMU as only including DMMUs with gears, and DEMUs as quite separate. They're totally different trains, hardly comparable!

If a Pacer counts as 2nd generation then 1st gen is clearly better anyway