First Class

[transportphoto]

I have had a look at the ATW site and can't find anywhere which says they operate any stock with 1st Class - do they* and what services do they operate?

*Also - if yes, which freebies do you get?

 

[rail-britain]

I have had a look at the ATW site and can't find anywhere which says they operate any stock with 1st Class - do they* and what services do they operate?

*Also - if yes, which freebies do you get?

See the Holyhead - Cardiff Central timetable

http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/PremierService/

See my journey review of 2009 :
http://www.rail-britain.co.uk/wordpress/?page_id=43
http://www.rail-britain.co.uk/wordpress/?page_id=64

 

[455driver]

SWT and Southern are rubbish becuase they have the same seats as in standard.

Which SWT train has the same seats in first and standard then?

 

[rail-britain]

Which SWT train has the same seats in first and standard then?

I would assume these are Class 158 / 159, they do look very similar but have slightly more padding
However there is slightly more legroom than in standard

 

[GodAtum]

Which SWT train has the same seats in first and standard then?

The seats in the 450s.

 

[MCR247]

They are not the same?!
Standard

First Class

 

[GodAtum]

The last time to went on SWT 450 1st class the seatvery similar to standard I thought.

But Southern/South Eastern do have the same seats?

 

[MCR247]

Yes, they do. Infact I think the SWT 450 first class is the same as the Standard & First 2+2/2+1 seating in 375/377s

 

[Bakers1970]

I have had a look at the ATW site and can't find anywhere which says they operate any stock with 1st Class - do they* and what services do they operate?

*Also - if yes, which freebies do you get?

I personally think the ATW North-South service is top drawer.. albeit only 1 return journey per day..With the current on board chefs they are cooking top-notch meals every day,maybe the reason they have been voted the best in class dining facility ?? Would anyone know if a 'WAG 2 ' is on the cards??

 

[455driver]

I would assume these are Class 158 / 159, they do look very similar but have slightly more padding
However there is slightly more legroom than in standard

First class is 2+1-
http://anoraksia.ukgeeks.co.uk/p47067445.html,
standard is 2+2-
http://atomicdanny-003.fotopic.net/p52575982.html.

Not very similar.

 

[rail-britain]

I personally think the ATW North-South service is top drawer.. albeit only 1 return journey per day..With the current on board chefs they are cooking top-notch meals every day,maybe the reason they have been voted the best in class dining facility ?? Would anyone know if a 'WAG 2 ' is on the cards??

The two chefs are Michelin rated
The breakfast is excellent, but I was mildly disappointed by the evening meal; Faggots, come on

There are no plans for an additional Permier service on this route, there were plans to extend the service to Saturdays

However there were plans for an additional Premier service on a different route, but this has failed due to a lack of rolling stock (mainly locos)

 

[Bakers1970]

The two chefs are Michelin rated
The breakfast is excellent, but I was mildly disappointed by the evening meal; Faggots, come on

There are no plans for an additional Permier service on this route, there were plans to extend the service to Saturdays

However there were plans for an additional Premier service on a different route, but this has failed due to a lack of rolling stock (mainly locos)

Ahhh Ok ..well on the recent journeys I have made there were no signs of any 'faggots'....
But surely this type of service has warranted a South North return??

 

[starrymarkb]

First class is 2+1-
http://anoraksia.ukgeeks.co.uk/p47067445.html,
standard is 2+2-
http://atomicdanny-003.fotopic.net/p52575982.html.

Not very similar.

The 159/0s have the same FC seating as FGW (sans Leather) and East Coast.

 

[rail-britain]

But surely this type of service has warranted a South North return??

The reason it travels north - south - north is to allow a certain person travel to/from Cardiff
There probably is demand for south - north - south, but in terms of First Class very limited

On the journeys I made, I was one of only two people southbound, and one of eight people northbound

I really can't see there being much demand...

 

[transportphoto]

Hi - I sent off a letter a couple of weeks ago to all TOC's in regards to their First Class Facility.

This is the reply from ScotRail

 

[merlodlliw]

The two chefs are Michelin rated
The breakfast is excellent, but I was mildly disappointed by the evening meal; Faggots, come on

There are no plans for an additional Permier service on this route, there were plans to extend the service to Saturdays

However there were plans for an additional Premier service on a different route, but this has failed due to a lack of rolling stock (mainly locos)

this may assist. from Network Rail to my Assembly Member dated Monday
..........................................................................................................
As part of the project, the Welsh Government asked us to focus on delivering options for increasing the capacity on the section of route between Chester and Shrewsbury via Wrexham so that the current Express Service and an additional service to run on the alternate hour to the current 2 hourly service could stop at Wrexham General.
........................................................................................................
The route via Crewe is only temporary. What the additional service means is anybody's guess

 

[sixhundred]

I'd say First Class travel in the UK is generally disappointing. I can't see how they justify the substantial extra cost.

On rare occasions I do travel first class especially if I really need to get some work done and need some quiet. However the extras (wider chair, more space and perhaps something to drink) don't justify the cost.

What's really surprising are the number of first class coaches some operators seem to use. The one which springs to mind is Virgin where half the train seems to be first class, yet it's virtually empty when normal is packed.

I'd travel first class more regularly if you really did get something substantial for the money. I presume the counter argument is the costs would have to increase to provide the improvements - catch 22.

 

[Oswyntail]

Travelled First Class (advance) Ilkley - Winchester via London last week. No 1st Ilkley-Leeds, no problem. East Coast to London and back was comfortable, with plenty of free refreshment on offer; good ambience and good service, with space to work comfortably and in private. Waterloo - Winchester was little better than Standard; airline seats (perhaps more legroom), no proper table and no refreshments. But, worst of all, absolutely nowhere to put a large (soft) suitcase except in the aisle. There cannot really be any reason for such a disparity in the quality of a product marketed under the same name.

 

[jon0844]

To some it's about guaranteeing a seat. To some it's about the status (and these are the ones who get upset that people that don't 'conform' to their class beliefs can also buy a ticket and sit amongst them). To some it's about having a table, or a power point (but many new trains have power in standard too). Or, it might be for complimentary food/drink/snacks.

Oh, and some may simply do so because they aren't paying!

And as long as first class helps subsidise other fares, long may this continue. I've paid to upgrade on special occasions, but only on longer distance services where there's actually some point in doing so.

 

[GodAtum]

Travelled First Class (advance) Ilkley - Winchester via London last week. No 1st Ilkley-Leeds, no problem. East Coast to London and back was comfortable, with plenty of free refreshment on offer; good ambience and good service, with space to work comfortably and in private. Waterloo - Winchester was little better than Standard; airline seats (perhaps more legroom), no proper table and no refreshments. But, worst of all, absolutely nowhere to put a large (soft) suitcase except in the aisle. There cannot really be any reason for such a disparity in the quality of a product marketed under the same name.

What trains would that be?

 

[LE Greys]

I've travelled in first a few times, but only if the second class advance tickets sell out. Then it's pleasant because you've almost cheated the system, and there's plenty of free tea. First on most commuter lines is more about status than real comfort, or so I should think. Maybe it gives more chance of getting a seat, but it's more about being seen getting out of a coach with a yellow stripe above the window than anything else.

What trains would that be?

Undoubtedly 444s. Horrid!

 

[Anvil1984]

Can I just ask people what they expect from First Class, we all look up to trains on the continent but the first class offering there is about the same if not inferior to ours, when I went first class to Nice from Gare de Lyon last year, there was no at seat service by trolley (impossible with the Duplexs layout), no complimentary items offered at the buffet which was busy and had 20 minute queues, no free wifi, no free Newspapers, there was a powerpoint admittedly and the seats were comfier but that was it. There wasnt any staff visible except the Chef du Train who checked tickets in the coach once in the whole trip (just prior to Avignon). On the local TER from Nice to Monaco again it was the same as our suburban first class and the seats werent that much comfier and again no ticket checks so anyone basically sat in there as it wasnt well segregated.

 

[LE Greys]

Can I just ask people what they expect from First Class <snip>

Wider seats and better spacing than the rest of the train, ideally with tables. Proportionately a bit more luggage space as well. If Inter-City, free hot drinks and possibly snacks as well. Power-sockets and free wi-fi would be useful as well, but not necessarily always there.

In an ideal world, compartments, but this is not an ideal world.

 

[ainsworth74]

Wider seats and better spacing than the rest of the train, ideally with tables. Proportionately a bit more luggage space as well. If Inter-City, free hot drinks and possibly snacks as well. Power-sockets and free wi-fi would be useful as well, but not necessarily always there.

What LE Greys says, plus on long distance services the option of buying some sort of meal on board if its in the morning or around tea time.

 

[MCR247]

In an ideal world, compartments, but this is not an ideal world.

I don't like compartments, unless I'm in a group of people. If I'm on my own, an open carriage is preferable.

 

[Failed Unit]

What LE Greys says, plus on long distance services some sort of meal if its in the morning or around tea time.

As long as it is not INCLUDED in the ticket price. I would rather pay less for the ticket and buy the meal if I want it. You always seem short changed on virgin if all the food is gone by the time they get to you!

 

[ainsworth74]

As long as it is not INCLUDED in the ticket price.

Oh yes agree completely! Probably should have put that in my first post

 

[sixhundred]

Can I just ask people what they expect from First Class

Bigger and more comfortable seating, table, power point, wifi, free tea/coffee/water, food if I want it which is of decent quality and at reasonable price.

 

[Green Lane]

I've always been an advocate of using standard class over first class in order to save money.

However, for me the main advantage of first class is greater availability of advance tickets.

For example, if I want to travel from Liverpool Lime Street on Monday morning, I can buy a £12 advance single, but the earliest train I can get is the 07:34 from LIV which doesn't get me there until 09:18 - which is later than I require.

However, for just £7 more, I can buy a 1st class adv single and take the 06:30 from Lime Street which gets me there at 08:17, which is more useful to me. There are no standard adv tickets available on that earlier service.

So for just £7 more I can take an earlier train. Plus of course, 1st class will be very quiet and probably more relaxing than standard.

So, lately I've started to warm to 1st class for the simple reason that it makes more trains available to me at a reasonable cost (strictly advance tickets or special offer day rovers only though!)

Complimentary food/drinks is a non-issue for me as I always bring my own food and drinks.

 

[At_traction]

Can I just ask people what they expect from First Class, we all look up to trains on the continent but the first class offering there is about the same if not inferior to ours [...] no complimentary items offered at the buffet which was busy and had 20 minute queues, no free wifi, no free Newspapers, there was a powerpoint admittedly and the seats were comfier but that was it.

Voilá! In my opinion, the UK First Class offerings like the ones listed above indeed make it one of the better ones around, contrasting sharply with self-service old coffee from a percolator in the upper level of a duplex carriage. Admittedly the UK perks vary according to the TOCs and also individual services within their "portfolio", XC Birmingham-Southampton line being one of the more spartan as opposed to Virgin and EC being in somewhere midway between these two.

In an ideal world, compartments, but this is not an ideal world.

Even despite the cell phoner danger, I'd take the open compartment route, especially as there's usually less congestion (ie. no congestion whatsoever) in the First. And as for having an incessant cell phoner in the same compartment [shrug]...

As long as it is not INCLUDED in the ticket price. I would rather pay less for the ticket and buy the meal if I want it. You always seem short changed on virgin if all the food is gone by the time they get to you!

That's a very good point. Perks seem like less so if there aren't any. And a single soda can doesn't count...

Complimentary food/drinks is a non-issue for me as I always bring my own food and drinks.

But I've noticed that having a somewhat reliable and endless source of hot and cold drinks aboard (and brought to my seat) as well as some biscuity things for immediate needs reduce the need for pre-planning at least in one aspect. Otherwise I'd have to remember to buy the drinks and make certain that for a long trip there's enough refreshments. Been there, done that too...