First Class

[MidnightFlyer]

Which TOC offer the best First Class service... just wondering.

 

[bnm]

Which TOC offer the best First Class service... just wondering.

Best TOC: Virgin. Inclusive breakfast or evening meal Mon-Fri, plus complimentary alcoholic beverages (not breakfast trains!). Good quality, although rarely served with a smile.

Best Open Access: Wrexham and Shropshire. Inclusive 2 course meal (3rd course £3.95), including tea/coffee. Excellent service and quality. Available at week-ends.

Worst TOC (with an advertiesd complimentary offering): CrossCountry. Nuked paninis, dishwater coffee, patchy service sometimes offered by the Train Manager because of lack of staff, sometimes not at all.

 

[rail-britain]

Best Open Access: Wrexham and Shropshire. Inclusive 2 course meal (3rd course £3.95), including tea/coffee. Excellent service and quality. Available at week-ends

I was only able to use a morning service last year; breakfast
I was considering trying all three (breakfast, day, and evening meal)
However I never noticed the 3rd course supplement!

In my opinion the best overall is Arriva Trains Wales
The portions are larger than Virgin Trains (not as large as WSR!) but the quality is "silver service" and served by a Michelin qualified chef

I still agree that Virgin Trains is the best offering, but it is not as good as it was
However, breakfast is still amongst the best available from a main TOC franchise

Cross Country is acceptable; a snack is better than "nothing more than tea or coffee and biscuits" from First Great Western, First ScotRail, East Midlands, East Coast, and Grand Central

Bottom of the pile are London Midland and East Anglia, where you really DO get NOTHING!

 

[voyagerdude220]

I was strangely going to mention exactly the same three train companies, than bnm.

I love VT First Class, the food is usually very good, it's just a shame the Super Voyagers don't offer the superior breakfast offer on the Birmingham-Scotland route, as the Euston-North Wales ones do. Also annoying that no evening meals are done on Super Voyagers, although I suppose it would be difficult to serve them between Preston and Birmingham, with the short 15-30 minutes between each stop.

Cross Country.. I don't even want to go there. I always try to avoid them whenever possible, as they are so dire.. To think I could potentially pay £114.00 FOR between Edinburgh and Newcastle (£15 more expensive than East Coast's own FOR), and actually be 'lucky' to receive a drink, let alone something proper to eat, isn't good at all.

Wrexham and Shropshire- Only used them twice before, but have yet to be disappointed. By far the best quality food i've tasted before in First Class on any UK TOC. Fabulous quality service, complimented by the very friendly staff. If only Cross Country could learn from them..

I hear that Arriva's Premier Holyhead to Cardiff service is also of a high quality, I'm hoping to use breakfast on one of their services in a few weeks time.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was only able to use a morning service last year; breakfast
I was considering trying all three (breakfast, day, and evening meal)
However I never noticed the 3rd course supplement!

On the two occasions I travelled with W&S, I was actually offered a chocolate muffin/something sweet like a piece of cake etc free of charge, although I didn't enquire about desserts as I was more than satisfied witht he two courses I had already scoffed.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I went all the way from KGX-Inverness on NXEC last year, by far the best first class service I have ever recieved in my life.
WSMR & EC are good too.
XC are awful.

Virgin's weekend service is absolutely pathetic - at seat Euston-Preston you usually get served ONCE, aboout Watford Jn- pathetic.

Can i bring enterprise into this - they put most TOCs in GB to shame, and their fares are better value than most FC tickets in Britain are. Brilliant.

 

[atomicdanny]

I think the worst have to be South Eastern / Southern where their electrostars have the exact same seating in first and second class, which is also the same seats used in the first class in the SWT desiros (450s).

(375/9s not included they are probably the worst seating!)

 

[Failed Unit]

It does vary so much from operator and on the same day!

Virgin in general Monday to Friday the pendos are good. The voyagers are pathetic. I don't know if the have changed policy but use a pendo from Glasgow and you get the works. Use a voyager for the same price you have to walk to the shop and collect yourself. Weekends poor on both.

East coast is typically good. At least it is the same at weekends.

Fgw I used on a weekend first upgrade and wondered why I had bothered. Oh yes it got me a table

xc in virgins days didn't give anything northbof newcastle and Preston so there was no point to it. Don't know if xc have improved things.

Don't be fooled by virgin the food is not free. You have paid for it in you ticket.

 

[Any Permitted]

NXEA's is pretty disappointing. There's a £50 difference between SOR and FOR tickets on the Norwich - LST route so for that you'd expect at least a complimentary drink. Nope.

The main difference between First Class Mk3s and Standard is the 2+2 seating becomes 2+1 which is quite nice so you get a table with just two people on and obviously it's a lot less busy and a bit more plush. You don't get any freebies, no newspapers, drinks or food. There is an at-seat breakfast service on a few morning services but this costs between £5 and £7 for what is a fairly nice but not too special breakfast.

To be honest paying an extra £4 or £5 on an advance ticket or maybe the £7 weekend supplement makes it worthwhile for the nicer seating, emptier carriage and the "I'm no pleb" feeling you get when you board a first class carriage and watch all the oiks walk past to board further up but you'd have to be charging the ticket to expenses to buy an FOR ticket.

 

[jopsuk]

I'd challenge anyone to find worse "First class" than that found on NXEA West Anglia class 317/1s.

Then again, other than ex "Intercity" routes and Airport "Express" services, the only former NSE area trains I'd leave with 1st class would be SWTs 444s, 159s and 158s. Chiltern have the right idea, as does the "High Speed" section of Southeastern.

 

[lm321412]

Then again, other than ex "Intercity" routes and Airport "Express" services, the only former NSE area trains I'd leave with 1st class would be SWTs 444s, 159s and 158s. Chiltern have the right idea, as does the "High Speed" section of Southeastern.

Problem is, rail companies will always know that you will get some commuters who will buy 1st class rail passes for their commutes into London. Depends who they are, a lot of them just like the quietness after a hard day at work...

 

[156499]

Virgin are probably the best, but for first class seating i'd need to say the 170/3 ex-hull trains 170s are the best for comfort.

 

[rail-britain]

I went all the way from KGX-Inverness on NXEC last year, by far the best first class service I have ever recieved in my life.
WSMR & EC are good too.
XC are awful.

Virgin's weekend service is absolutely pathetic - at seat Euston-Preston you usually get served ONCE, aboout Watford Jn- pathetic

The service on NXEC and East Coast is "basic", just tea / coffee and biscuits
If I was making such a journey, ie London - Inverness, I would travel Virgin Trains via Glasgow Central and that presents better value for money as you would be served at least two snacks between London and Glasgow

Virgin Trains weekend service is basic, and they make that clear on their website
The majority of their services have no at-seat service
Every time I have travelled at weekends I have made my way to the shop, just for tea / coffee

 

[Failed Unit]

The service on NXEC and East Coast is "basic", just tea / coffee and biscuits
If I was making such a journey, ie London - Inverness, I would travel Virgin Trains via Glasgow Central and that presents better value for money as you would be served at least two snacks between London and Glasgow

Virgin Trains weekend service is basic, and they make that clear on their website
The majority of their services have no at-seat service
Every time I have travelled at weekends I have made my way to the shop, just for tea / coffee

Depends on how you look at it, first the level of service is the same at weekends or weekdays no walking to the shop on East Coast. Second, have you considered the price of the ticket itself. Typically when I do London to Scotland Virgin's advanced first ticket is more than £10 more expensive. For that £10 I can buy myself and get served at see anything from the menu. So in that respect you could argue that they are the same. As I siad in an earlier post their is no such thing as free food. If you look at the East Coast ticket that includes food and parking, I suspect they are able to do that as they are not sharing revenue with other operators so they are still making more profit on that ticket then an open return. I do think that Virgins late evening and weekend offer is poor as people with open returns could quite easily thing £300+ and nothing extra, state on website or not.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'd challenge anyone to find worse "First class" than that found on NXEA West Anglia class 317/1s.

yip, and the standard class on the 317/7's is better than the first on the 317/8's!

Then again, other than ex "Intercity" routes and Airport "Express" services, the only former NSE area trains I'd leave with 1st class would be SWTs 444s, 159s and 158s. Chiltern have the right idea, as does the "High Speed" section of Southeastern.

That is something that was picked up on the which report that South Eastern will sell you a 1st class return just in case you want to return on a classic service. That asside I don't see why South Eastern didn't provide first class on the High Speed 1 (The seem to rip you off elsewhere). They say that the journey isn't long enough but people seem happy to pay for 1st Class on HEX and Edinburgh - Glasgow and I am sure many people on HS1 are on for longer than 1 hour!

 

[Mr Spock]

Bottom of the pile are London Midland and East Anglia, where you really DO get NOTHING![/QUOTE]

Not completely true as on some LM services between Crewe and London you do get some freebies i.e. coffee, tea, etc and a muffin, flapjack or crisps. A regular service is the one that calls at Tamworth at 15.46 going south.

 

[j0hn0]

I have NEVER travelled first class in the UK, really don't know why, oh right, cost thats it.

In Holland I travelled first class many times, this just means that you get a seat. No food, nothing, even on long distance benelux trains, nowt.

 

[stut]

Depends what you want, really.

Personally, I don't really care about freebie food and drink, although it's nice, I just want extra room, some quiet, and a decent table, usually to work.

Eurostar and EC are the best for this, as they do solo seats in FC, which are mostly (although not completely) absent on other trains. While FC may often be quieter, I really want a guarantee I won't have to play footsie with somebody while I'm working.

CrossCountry are often worth it, as the difference is so stark with standard - I can't physically fit in the new 170 seats, let alone open a laptop.

VS and EMT are good, but their standard class isn't bad either, so the premium needs to be less. FGW gets criticised for not having tables, but the fold-down tables and legroom are good, and all FC seats are facing somebody, so I'd only use it on the really long journeys (e.g. beyond Exeter/Cardiff). NXEA's Mk3s are decent, and often is extremely well priced. SWT's FC can be worth it on a £5 gold card upgrade for the longer-haul journeys like Salisbury and Exeter, as, once again, their 159 standard seats are pretty cramped. TPE isn't bad when things are crowded in standard (most of the time, really...), although the engine noise in FC is pretty abominable.

Short journeys, I wouldn't pay for it - only if it's included in a connection. From my experience of it, it's really, really not worth it unless it's seriously cheap (e.g. LM for a long journey, might only be a few quid, especially when you get the 3+2 seating in standard). Half of the time, if you're outside commuting hours, it's a chav magnet anyway.

And then, there's some FC that's worse than standard - like the awful, cramped seats on FCC 365s. If I have a first class ticket connecting in Peterborough, then, unless it's evening peak, I'll usually just sit in standard anyway!

 

[142094]

I went all the way from KGX-Inverness on NXEC last year, by far the best first class service I have ever recieved in my life.

Did the opposite a couple of months ago, but now with East Coast. Food was very good, as was the service. Plus this was only the second time I've travelled first class as well.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Did the opposite a couple of months ago, but now with East Coast. Food was very good, as was the service. Plus this was only the second time I've travelled first class as well.

yeah, I did it on a weekend, and I must have got offered drinks about 10 times in between KGX and Peterborough (no joke), and the food was excellent quality, even if it isnt free, like on VT, but the overall quality of service (served with a smile from staff) puts Virgin's weekend service to shame...

 

[Pumbaa]

Not completely true as on some LM services between Crewe and London you do get some freebies i.e. coffee, tea, etc and a muffin, flapjack or crisps. A regular service is the one that calls at Tamworth at 15.46 going south.

Really not the case I'm afraid. There isn't even a trolley service on the Trent Valley services, actually there may be now after May. But certainly no FC freebies.

 

[Mr Spock]

Really not the case I'm afraid. There isn't even a trolley service on the Trent Valley services, actually there may be now after May. But certainly no FC freebies.

Well I have been on that train many times and there is usually a trolley service and I have always been given those things FREE in first class. I have also been served from a trolley between Rugby and Watford also complimentary in first class.

Perhaps you ought to check your facts before commenting.

 

[Pumbaa]

Since Oct 09, I've done over 40 trips return Liverpool - Watford/Euston on LM services changing at Stafford. I have never had a trolley on the TV service, and have written to LM on several occasions requesting some sort of trolley service. I think thats fact enough to draw my own conclusions, along with LMs text on the web:

London Midland First Class travel offers comfortable seats with more legroom than in standard class, and a smaller, private compartment to either work or relax in. Our newer Desiro trains operate some of the services along these routes; they also offer power points and reclining seats, so you can kick back and relax or do some work.

I travelled in First class on this Monday just gone. I paid for both the coffee and muffin I bought at various point in the journey.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Perhaps you ought to check your facts before commenting.

Well I would personally very much expect TOCs to push the 'complimentary' aspect of travelling First Class on their trains, simply to give the illusion of value for money. London Midland clearly don't do this on their website, giving me the impression that they don't.

Just because your experiences have been different to another persons, it doesn't IMO give the need for you to ask someone to check their facts.

 

[Mr Spock]

I made a statement that a service is provided on some services and quoted one that I had used and been given a complimentary service on many times.

The reply basically called me a liar so I have every right to tell him to check his facts before making a posting. As the service is/(was) infrequent that would probably be the reason that LM does not advertise it.

They also offer a trolley servive on the Liverpool-Birmingham trains but first class passengers have to pay on these trains.

 

[leewoods60019]

never traveled on first class but i'm going to travel on first class for £19 on the route brighouse - doncaster (return) there first class is wicked! Grand central is that

 

[142094]

yeah, I did it on a weekend, and I must have got offered drinks about 10 times in between KGX and Peterborough (no joke), and the food was excellent quality, even if it isnt free, like on VT, but the overall quality of service (served with a smile from staff) puts Virgin's weekend service to shame...

Before I did the trip I expected to try and get everything that was for free, and as much as possible. Think at around York I was sick of tea, biscuits and orange juice. Still, the price of all that should have come to at least £20.

 

[Max]

I have NEVER travelled first class in the UK, really don't know why, oh right, cost thats it.

It's true that FORs are ridiculously expensive on the whole, but on certain TOCs, it can be just as cheap to travel first as standard when booking in advance. An example would be East Midlands Trains, where you can often pick up first advance singles for only a few pennies more than standard!

 

[rail-britain]

Really not the case I'm afraid. There isn't even a trolley service on the Trent Valley services, actually there may be now after May. But certainly no FC freebies.

London Midland have confirmed for me what their level of service is, for First Class ticket holders

There is no trolley via Rugby, but there is a trolley on services between Birmingham and Liverpool
All sales from the trolley need to be paid for, there are no complimentary items to holders of First Class tickets

Strangely there is no mention of a trolley service in either the website or timetables
In effect London Midland can withdraw the service and it has no effect no availability

 

[voyagerdude220]

I made a statement that a service is provided on some services and quoted one that I had used and been given a complimentary service on many times.

The reply basically called me a liar so I have every right to tell him to check his facts before making a posting. As the service is/(was) infrequent that would probably be the reason that LM does not advertise it.

They also offer a trolley servive on the Liverpool-Birmingham trains but first class passengers have to pay on these trains.

Ok fair enough, please accept my apologies as I didn't see that.

 

[Pumbaa]

London Midland have confirmed for me what their level of service is, for First Class ticket holders

There is no trolley via Rugby, but there is a trolley on services between Birmingham and Liverpool
All sales from the trolley need to be paid for, there are no complimentary items to holders of First Class tickets

Strangely there is no mention of a trolley service in either the website or timetables
In effect London Midland can withdraw the service and it has no effect no availability

And thus my original point still stands with Mr Spock - his experience is at odds with mine and London Midlands operation!

 

[323235]

London Midland have confirmed for me what their level of service is, for First Class ticket holders

There is no trolley via Rugby, but there is a trolley on services between Birmingham and Liverpool
All sales from the trolley need to be paid for, there are no complimentary items to holders of First Class tickets

Well I saw a trolley service when I travelled between Stoke-Stafford a few months ago.