First-class ticket when no first-class fare set?

[MKB]

I want to buy a first-class single ticket from Chesterfield to Bradford Interchange. I think Northern Trains sets the fare for this station combination but they have set only standard-class fares.

I was advised by Passenger Focus some while ago that, in such a situation, the correct first-class fare is the standard fare plus 50%. However, I cannot find a ticket office that (a) can find this rule in their online copy of the Fares Manual, and (b) know how to sell such a ticket.

Obviously I can split-ticket, but surely there should be a way to buy a through ticket?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The FRPP doesn't list it to my knowledge. The closest it gets is the excess fares section which mearly states that a standard class ticket holder travelling in First class should be excessed to the appropriate first class fare. I think the last time I saw it was in the old NFM manuals, but some ticket machines can't do it anyway.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I want to buy a first-class single ticket from Chesterfield to Bradford Interchange. I think Northern Trains sets the fare for this station combination but they have set only standard-class fares.

I was advised by Passenger Focus some while ago that, in such a situation, the correct first-class fare is the standard fare plus 50%. However, I cannot find a ticket office that (a) can find this rule in their online copy of the Fares Manual, and (b) know how to sell such a ticket.

Obviously I can split-ticket, but surely there should be a way to buy a through ticket?

This is a link to the now (out of date) National Fares Manual 98, and yes, a through fare should be available priced at 150% of the Standard ticket. See page A3 for details. Perhaps someone can confirm that this part of NFM98 still applies.

http://www.atoc.org/retail/_downloads/NFM98/NFM98_Common_A.pdf

 

[nag67]

Following text pasted from my earlier post in Feb 09 as it covers the issue:

Quote:

I have had a similar problem when booking Wigan to Derby, seeking first class on Manchester to Sheffield and Sheffield to Derby legs. No first class fare was available for this trip, nor was there one for Manchester to Derby, where first class accommodation is available on many trains. Correspondence with ATOC confirmed that the 50% multiplier was no longer available as these fares had to be issued by hand and the facility had been withdrawn with no replacement option. They said that in order to get a first class ticket for this I either had to request one to be created via the relevant TOC (not a quick option) or to split the ticket into chunks for which first fares were available. They said that because split tickets were available they saw no problem in through first class fares not being available.

In this case, it meant splitting the Wigan to Derby fare into three separate tickets (Wigan to Manchester + Manchester to Sheffield + Sheffield to Derby) as there were no first fares for Wigan to Sheffield or Manchester to Derby.

Resulting fare was £7.50 Wigan to Manchester SDR + £45.80 Manchester to Sheffield FOR + £48.00 Sheffield to Derby FOR = £101.30 (All NFM02 fares).

Compare this with £68.25 FOR for the fare based on the now unavailable 50% surcharge on SOR. A fare increase of almost 50% since withdrawal of the multiplier!

So much for a simplified fares structure!

It does strike me as odd that no first class fares are available any more for many flows on which first class accommodation is available (Formby to York is another recent example). I don't see why such fares cannot be created in the database using the 50% multiplier if the TOCs don't want to use a more specific multiplier instead. This would put a bit more onus on the passenger to ensure that first is available on the services they intend to use them on.

It wouldn't be rocket scientist and would reinstate options that did exist until the paper NFM was abolished without the need for manual issue. Why should I be unable to book direct tickets from A to B using First Class where it is available for at least some of the journey?

NAG67

End Quote

 

[MKB]

To answer my own question...

A very helpful lady in Burton-on-Trent ticket office took time out to contact her head office to find out the answer and asked me to call back later in the day. She was advised that she could sell these tickets at 1.5 x Standard. Apparently she has to go into the supervisor's menu on the ticket machines to do it.

Unfortunately, fearful that I wouldn't get such a positive response, I had already bought a dearer split-ticket for the same journey online so that I could at least use the £4 Money Saving Expert discount on thetrainline.

 

[nag67]

Here is the response I got from ATOC regarding the 50% multiplier rule in NFM98:

Quote:
"With regard to the issue you have with First Class composite fares, the ruling you state no longer applies. It is the responsibility of the Train Company that sets the fares for a particular journey to offer a First Class fare where First Class accommodation is available for all or part of the journey. I see that your travel Agent has arranged a combination of tickets for you where no first class fare is available for the throughout journey and this an acceptable alternative. I recommend your Travel Agent contacts TTL and report any instances of journeys for which there is no First Class fare when First Class accommodation is available for all or part of the journey. TTL can then take them up with the relevant Train Company."
End Quote

This seems to state that the 50% multiplier can no longer be used and that separate fares have to be used until a fare can be created by the relevant TOC.

This is all an inconvenience and another price rise. They say that the £101.30 separate tickets are an acceptable alternative to the £68.25 through ticket that would have been available if the 50% rule still aplied.

However, the information from the ticket office at Burton would suggest that the 50% rule can still be applied. It would be interesting to see if it can be done in practice and what the official line on this is.

The saga continues.

NAG67

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


To add another suggestion.

ATOC say that:
"It is the responsibility of the Train Company that sets the fares for a particular journey to offer a First Class fare where First Class accommodation is available for all or part of the journey."

Also:

"I recommend your Travel Agent contacts TTL and report any instances of journeys for which there is no First Class fare when First Class accommodation is available for all or part of the journey. TTL can then take them up with the relevant Train Company."

Here TTL = The TrainLine, as they are the agent my employer's agent uses.

Since ATOC want us to report instances of journeys with no 1st Class fare, where 1st seating is available, perhaps we should do so.

I have a few examples that I can report. Does anyone have any more? I would be happy to report mine (and any others) direct to the TOC(s), avoiding the travel agents involvement.

NAG67

 

[furryfeet]

why is this simple rule NOT written into the national conditions of carriage
i.e. be legally binding on ALL the TOC's ?

Was Load Adonis asked about this on his "meet the people" week ?