First Class Ticket No Option to Purchase

[221129]

Surely the fact that there have been successful prosecutions in the past answers the question.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely the fact that there have been successful prosecutions in the past answers the question.

Do you have case law, please? (i.e. cite some successful Byelaw (NOT RoRA) prosecutions in precisely those circumstances, which did not occur in the South East PF zones?)

 

[furlong]

Regarding byelaw 19, I think I'd argue (hypothetically) that the standard class ticket (NOT a season ticket and where Penalty Fares don't apply) does, under condition 39 of the NRCoC, count as a valid ticket entitling you to be in first class provided that you pay the difference required - and Weekend First works a similar way.

 

[221129]

An incident as discussed on here at the time....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lass-train-carriage-just-standard-ticket.html

 

[Bletchleyite]

An incident as discussed on here at the time....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lass-train-carriage-just-standard-ticket.html

Which was on a train in Southern's penalty fares zone, where different rules apply, so doesn't answer my question.

The example would have to be from:-
1. ATW (Premier train)
2. Chiltern
3. TPE
4. VWC
5. East Coast
6. GWR (outside Penalty Fares zone)
7. XC (sorry, missed them!)

...as all other TOCs that have First Class operate Penalty Fares, and ScotRail is not relevant because of the different nature of Scottish law.

Edit: also note:

"He then refused to pay for a first-class ticket when asked by an inspector"

 

[najaB]

Were a prosecution pursued, that would be a breach of that term of the NRCoC, because something it says WILL happen (100% certainty) did not.

We have seen at least two cases in Disputes & Prosecutions recently where prosecutions were threatened, I don't know what the outcomes were. But I'm pretty sure that quoting from the NRCoC wouldn't count as a valid defence.

 

[furlong]

"He then refused to pay for a first-class ticket when asked by an inspector"

Exactly - if you don't pay for the upgrade then you're caught by the byelaw (and moving to standard accommodation doesn't get you off the hook).

 

[Bletchleyite]

We have seen at least two cases in Disputes & Prosecutions recently where prosecutions were threatened, I don't know what the outcomes were. But I'm pretty sure that quoting from the NRCoC wouldn't count as a valid defence.

So TOCs have carte blanche to breach that term of the NRCoC? Should it not therefore be enforced by the DfT, or changed to state that an upgrade on board is not permissible, as indeed relates to PF areas?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Exactly - if you don't pay for the upgrade then you're caught by the byelaw (and moving to standard accommodation doesn't get you off the hook).

I would certainly agree with that, and of course moving to Standard doesn't[1] (and shouldn't) get you off the hook, because up to that point you have taken a First Class journey which you have not paid for.

[1] Sometimes.