First Class on The Underground

[stuving]

Most offices would have worked a five and a half day week then hence the Saturday service.

Early post war timetables still showed a Saturday morning and midday peak.

The biggest office employer, the civil service, changed to a five-day week in July 1956 (but not all exactly at once). I remember that happening, as my Dad was one of those involved.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2024 ==

Both District and Metropolitan had First Class

It was temporarily suspended during WW2 in 1940 for duration, not sure when the temporary suspension became permanent.

The Metropolitan (and presumably the District too) had three classes until second class was abolished in 1905. That was despite W E Gladstone himself (a shareholder), trying to persuade them to change to two classes in 1874, in an open letter that was widely reprinted.

 

[Taunton]

Not sure any Pullman car name ever had a direct link with where it operated, anywhere, other than "backronym" suggestions.


Digressing, completely, going back a while, in those days when railtours / charters used to convey parties to BNFL Sellafied, BNFL asked the tour operators to stop using the Pullman car set known as "Beryl & Cheryl" as Cheryl was a little too close to home to Chernobyl which they tended to be a little sensitive about. And that anecdote is true, the late Mr.Farrow of (then) Hertfordshire Railtours got involved with this.

Now "Beryl & Cheryl" brings back memories of a correspondent in Rail magazine called David Maxey, who was without equal for being able to write humorously about railways, railtours in particular, and regularly took the proverbial about the various names of this rake of coaches, these two in particular..

Not sure any Pullman car name ever had a direct link with where it operated, anywhere, other than "backronym" suggestions.

The Pullman "Trianon Bar", an elegant buffet, in railway terms (a Pullman attempt at a cocktail lounge) in the Golden Arrow formation, was a pastiche of the well-known theatre and its bar in Paris.

Back to the Metropolitan, and these were proper Pullman cars, with Pullman stewards, and I read that "chop suppers" were the thing on the evening outwards services, all the way from Aldgate. It would have been interesting to see if you could get through it all by, say, Harrow.

 

[eldomtom2]

Thanks.
Though looking more closely, the SX 1149 off Liverpool Street and 135 off Aylesbury, while they are balancing workings, have remarkably long layovers in London and look to be timed for a little luncheon business.

What are you defining as a "balancing working"?

 

[30907]

What are you defining as a "balancing working"?

Not sure it's quite the right phrase - but workings that run to get stock back to (or from) its starting point rather than because of a substantial demand (in this case, for Pullman facilities.
I may becwrong, but I doubt there was more than the odd well-heeled customer for morning coffee at 10.10am from Liverpool Street

 

[John Luxton]

only place left in the world with first class on their trams.

Incidentally Liverpool Corporation Tramways experimented with First Class Trams on sone routes prior to the First World War.

The trams were painted white and charged 50% more than the regular trams.

There are a few photos of them in various books.

Not sure if any other UK tramways had first class trams or trams with a first class section.

 

[507001]

Not first class but catering : the Central LIne (at least I think it was the Central) did have a catering trolley service one day.

Of legend if loco bashers, a certain BR trolley operative / class 40 basher was known to go "off route" with trolley while chasing 40s; one day said basher ended up in London, way off route as he was Manchester area based. I can't remember the exact sequence now but it was something like a 40 into Paddington, Central Line from Lancaster Gate to Liverpool Street, for a 37 out; on the tube a sale was made from the trolley. The actual events faded from my grey cells now, might have been the Met./Circle between the two terminii, or east to west not west to east, whatever, it happened.

Ahh yes quite correct (John S - I also 'helped' based at Stockport on a few tubes and Im sure we did do a bus across London on one move to Euston). Later years very common on the tubes wiith Steam on the Met events too!

 

[eldomtom2]

Not sure it's quite the right phrase - but workings that run to get stock back to (or from) its starting point rather than because of a substantial demand (in this case, for Pullman facilities.

I presume in this case though the desire was to stop coaches from taking up space in Liverpool Street rather than to get them back to their starting point - the evening service would have done that anyway.

 

[etr221]

Looking at the timetable linked above, it is apparent there are some 'missing' (either 'pure' ECS, or with the Pullman being closed) workings - e.g. there are 4 workings from Liverpool Street (daily/SE), but 3 to it, or 1 from Chesham, but none to it. Also, there was only one bay at Liverpool Street, so what happened there with 954 and 1005 arrivals daily, and 1010 and 1149 departures SE (times am)?

 

[PeterC]

Looking at the timetable linked above, it is apparent there are some 'missing' (either 'pure' ECS, or with the Pullman being closed) workings - e.g. there are 4 workings from Liverpool Street (daily/SE), but 3 to it, or 1 from Chesham, but none to it. Also, there was only one bay at Liverpool Street, so what happened there with 954 and 1005 arrivals daily, and 1010 and 1149 departures SE (times am)?

Considering that these were loco hauled services it looks like some pretty smart work. On the other hand one of the arrivals might actually have worked through to Aldgate.

 

[D7666]

Ahh yes quite correct (John S - I also 'helped' based at Stockport on a few tubes and Im sure we did do a bus across London on one move to Euston). Later years very common on the tubes wiith Steam on the Met events too!

As I said, I could not recall the precise details of the incident I remembered; I am sure there were more, and no doubt blurred over time.

I do wonder if some of the kidzzzz / younger members of these forums actually believe some of these stories.

 

[30907]

I presume in this case though the desire was to stop coaches from taking up space in Liverpool Street rather than to get them back to their starting point - the evening service would have done that anyway.

Yes, that's what I was driving at.

Looking at the timetable linked above, it is apparent there are some 'missing' (either 'pure' ECS, or with the Pullman being closed) workings - e.g. there are 4 workings from Liverpool Street (daily/SE), but 3 to it, or 1 from Chesham, but none to it. Also, there was only one bay at Liverpool Street, so what happened there with 954 and 1005 arrivals daily, and 1010 and 1149 departures SE (times am)?

Clearly the Baker Street terminator needed to work forward to Liverpool St eventually.

How the 1005 arrival was worked I don't know, but with the frequency of services on the Circle/H&C a shunt via a crossover at the East end of the station (if there was one), or via Aldgate, then into the bay (vacated at 10.10!) seems likely.

The Met (like the GE upstairs) was well used to slick loco working.

 

[Rescars]

Yes, that's what I was driving at.

Clearly the Baker Street terminator needed to work forward to Liverpool St eventually.

How the 1005 arrival was worked I don't know, but with the frequency of services on the Circle/H&C a shunt via a crossover at the East end of the station (if there was one), or via Aldgate, then into the bay (vacated at 10.10!) seems likely.

The Met (like the GE upstairs) was well used to slick loco working.

Another aspect to consider is were and when there was sufficient lay-over so that fresh supplies of food and drink (sust and stock) could be loaded. Pullman's central stores were in Battersea, so presumably vans would have emanated from there on a daily basis to a convenient loading point.

 

[NorthWestRover]

Not first class but catering : the Central LIne (at least I think it was the Central) did have a catering trolley service one day.

Of legend if loco bashers, a certain BR trolley operative / class 40 basher was known to go "off route" with trolley while chasing 40s; one day said basher ended up in London, way off route as he was Manchester area based. I can't remember the exact sequence now but it was something like a 40 into Paddington, Central Line from Lancaster Gate to Liverpool Street, for a 37 out; on the tube a sale was made from the trolley. The actual events faded from my grey cells now, might have been the Met./Circle between the two terminii, or east to west not west to east, whatever, it happened.

@CW2 or another?

 

[30907]

Another aspect to consider is were and when there was sufficient lay-over so that fresh supplies of food and drink (sust and stock) could be loaded. Pullman's central stores were in Battersea, so presumably vans would have emanated from there on a daily basis to a convenient loading point.

A good point. I wonder whether they used the long layovers at Baker St/Liverpool St for the purpose?
(BTW I notice that one of the trains must have been berthed away from Liv St on Saturday mornings.)

 

[CW2]

@CW2 or another?

No, not me, but I know who you mean.

 

[etr221]

Looking at other resouces, Aldgate was quoted as being an alternative end point, making me suspesct that the attached Pullman tt was, shall we say, being somewhat economical with the truth.

 

[Rescars]

A good point. I wonder whether they used the long layovers at Baker St/Liverpool St for the purpose?
(BTW I notice that one of the trains must have been berthed away from Liv St on Saturday mornings.)

Seems likely. Victualling is most easily carried out when the vehicle in question is standing at a passenger-free platform. It could be done from track level at a stabling point, but it wouldn't have been a lot of fun and would have been downright dangerous if taking place anywhere near third / fourth rail traction supplies.