First class lounges for all

[daveo]

I will be travelling soon from Manchester Piccadilly station in first class on a Cross Country service. I see that MAN has a First Class lounge. I have read that this, in common with most others around the country, is for Avanti passengers only.

My suggestion would be a new organisation that own and operate all first class lounges which would be available to first class ticket holders for any TOC serving the particular station. What do others think?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Once everything is GBR I expect it will be open to all first class passengers (or all long distance passengers by some sort of definition at least, otherwise there would be a loophole of being able to buy a first class single to Manchester Oxford Road to gain access).

 

[London Trains]

Once everything is GBR I expect it will be open to all first class passengers (or all long distance passengers by some sort of definition at least, otherwise there would be a loophole of being able to buy a first class single to Manchester Oxford Road to gain access).

Hopefully First Class will be removed entirely from all non-Intercity services, meaning the lounges would be available to all First Class ticket holders by default.

Though sadly I wouldn't be overly shocked if GBR came in and shut down all the lounges.

 

[voyagerdude220]

(or all long distance passengers by some sort of definition at least, otherwise there would be a loophole of being able to buy a first class single to Manchester Oxford Road to gain access).

I suppose there could be say a minimum value or journey time for your ticket/journey imposed to try to stop people extracting the urine.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Talking of cheap fares to access lounges, do Avanti let you in with a first class single to Stockport, or is there already a journey time or price criterion?

 

[Trackman]

Talking of cheap fares to access lounges, do Avanti let you in with a first class single to Stockport, or is there already a journey time or price criterion?

I assume so, nothing in T&C's otherwise - plus it would be more than a double fare than a standard single. I wonder if you get your money's worth?

 

[Iskra]

Seems an easy cost saving too at stations with multiple first class lounges, just having one for all. The other(s) could possibly be turned into revenue-earning retail space too for a double financial win.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Personally, I'd like all trains to have First Class. Preferably, with ticket checks! I can dream, I suppose.....

 

[quantinghome]

Seems an easy cost saving too at stations with multiple first class lounges, just having one for all. The other(s) could possibly be turned into revenue-earning retail space too for a double financial win.

How many stations have multiple first class lounges? Euston's the only one AFAICS.

 

[Iskra]

How many stations have multiple first class lounges? Euston's the only one AFAICS.

Apologies, I thought it was more than that!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I will be travelling soon from Manchester Piccadilly station in first class on a Cross Country service. I see that MAN has a First Class lounge. I have read that this, in common with most others around the country, is for Avanti passengers only.

Just need to have a First Class ticket which is valid on Avanti West Coast services. For example, an Anytime 1st class Day Single route "Any Permitted" from Manchester Stns to Stoke-on-Trent would do. But not a route "XC Only" 1st class advance.

...otherwise there would be a loophole of being able to buy a first class single to Manchester Oxford Road to gain access).

Is such a fare actually available (from Manchester Piccadilly)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Doesn't appear there is, no. However you can get one to Stockport (£7), Stalybridge (£6.40) or Salford Crescent (£4.30) - I suspect the latter is probably the cheapest.

Edit: there's one to Victoria but that's a whacking £6.80!

 

[Merle Haggard]

Admittedly some time ago now I did engage with the Piccadilly lounge receptionist about the restriction to only A/V West Coast passengers and the response was 'we asked XC for a contribution but they declined", so it seems fair enough. They also quoted that any first class ticket on West Coast from Piccadilly was accepted although some (half fares travelling alone and/or short distances) weren't really in the spirit of the operation, but were still accepted under the riules.

Doesn't appear there is, no. However you can get one to Stockport (£7), Stalybridge (£6.40) or Salford Crescent (£4.30) - I suspect the latter is probably the cheapest.

Edit: there's one to Victoria but that's a whacking £6.80!

I think that the receptionist might notice some, if presented, cannot involve travel on Avanti.

 

[Iskra]

Admittedly some time ago now I did engage with the Piccadilly lounge receptionist about the restriction to only A/V West Coast passengers and the response was 'we asked XC for a contribution but they declined", so it seems fair enough. They also quoted that any first class ticket on West Coast from Piccadilly was accepted although some (half fares travelling alone and/or short distances) weren't really in the spirit of the operation, but were still accepted under the riules.



I think that the receptionist might notice some, if presented, cannot involve travel on Avanti.

They’ve let me in at Manchester when travelling in First with Avanti Northwards but from Preston, so they are reasonable and sensible if you ask nicely.

 

[VT 390]

I would like to see lounges open for all first class tickets, but possibly with a minimum fare of around £10 otherwise smaller lounges could get over crowded and keeps it simple for passengers rather than going by journey time or distance.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2026 ==

Seems an easy cost saving too at stations with multiple first class lounges, just having one for all. The other(s) could possibly be turned into revenue-earning retail space too for a double financial win.

How many stations have multiple first class lounges? Euston's the only one AFAICS.

There are no stations with more than 1 first class lounge.

London Euston only has the Avanti West Coast first class lounge, although it does have the Caledonian Sleeper club/double guest lounge.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I would like to see lounges open for all first class tickets, but possibly with a minimum fare of around £10 otherwise smaller lounges could get over crowded and keeps it simple for passengers rather than going by journey time or distance.

Indeed.
Funnily enough, the two quiet Avanti lounges (in my anecdotal experience) are New St and Picadilly, and they're the two that could be shared with XC, so could probably cope. Euston generally seems busiest but obviously it could only ever be Avanti passengers.
The only GWR one I've used is Paddington - again only served first class by GWR - I'm a bit hazy about others on that line.

 

[VT 390]

Indeed.
Funnily enough, the two quiet Avanti lounges (in my anecdotal experience) are New St and Picadilly, and they're the two that could be shared with XC, so could probably cope. Euston generally seems busiest but obviously it could only ever be Avanti passengers.

The Manchester Piccadilly lounge is also usually quiet every time I have used it.

Birmingham New Street can be more varied from having the lounge to myself to most seats taken, though I have never seen it full. Out of all the Cross Country served stations New Street needs lounge access the most as it is the centre of all Cross Country intercity routes.

The only GWR one I've used is Paddington - again only served first class by GWR - I'm a bit hazy about others on that line.

Heathrow Express have Business First Class but this would be very easy to exclude from lounge access if required.

The GWR lounge at Cardiff Central is very small and can get quickly full but the only other first class users not currently permitted would be those on the 2 hourly Cardiff to Manchester Transport for Wales service, so not to many more passengers.

The other GWR lounges at Truro and Penzance (outside of their use as Night Riviera sleeper lounges) are usually very quiet and it would only be the occasional Cross Country services that are not currently permitted.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think HEx is much of a threat there. Most people who would travel in 1st on HEx are people who would have airport lounge access, and these usually have a far better offering than railway lounges, plus you're then at the airport and thus in a much better position to avoid getting stuck because of delays and missing your flight.

The odd young enthusiast might play games to get in, but there's an argument to let them - they may develop a taste for it and pay full whack for 1st once they can afford it.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

There are no stations with more than 1 first class lounge.

London Euston only has the Avanti West Coast first class lounge, although it does have the Caledonian Sleeper club/double guest lounge.

And you need a first class ticket to use to the Caledonian Sleeper Lounge (either first class ticket and club/double sleeper supplement or a club/double inclusive), so yes Euston does have 2 First Class lounges depending which operator you are travelling on!

 

[VT 390]

And you need a first class ticket to use to the Caledonian Sleeper Lounge (either first class ticket and club/double sleeper supplement or a club/double inclusive), so yes Euston does have 2 First Class lounges depending which operator you are travelling on!

The Caledonian Sleeper lounge is advertised as a Guest Lounge on the Caledonian Sleeper website and a first class ticket alone would not permit access as a club or double room ticket/supplement is required. The sleeper has 4 classes of travel, non of which are officially first class.
I get that the sleeper lounge is still a premium offering lounge, similar to a first class lounge, but is different in when it is used and what it is used for.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The sleeper has 4 classes of travel, non of which are officially first class.

The different sleeper bundles are officially bundled into the 2 classes to fit in with international ticketing such as Interrail and Britrail; with the higher two options (Double and Club) only available for 1st Class ticket holders.

It is an interesting point as you say you can have a first class ticket and a supplement for one of the lower price options (for example you wanted club and it’s sold out) but can’t then use the lounge!

 

[YorksLad12]

I‘ve just had an email from LNER about their new lounge at Kings Cross. Access is available to this ticket holders:

Tickets Accepted in LNER First Class Lounge:

• Fully inter-available First Class Season Ticket (i.e. tickets not specific to one train company)
• Any First Class Anytime ticket valid for travel on the LNER route
• Any LNER First Class packages
• First Advance (routed LNER & connections)
• LNER First Class Reader Offer (routed LNER & connections)
• LNER First Class Flat Fare (routed LNER & connections)
• LNER Rewards First Class Leisure Single (routed LNER & connections)
• LNER Self-Print First Class Upgrade voucher (routed LNER & connections)
• Inclusive Tour Tickets (eg. Superbreak)
• Weekend First

I’m trying to work out what that excludes. Seatfrog upgrades…?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It doesn't appear to include First Off Peak, despite LNER pricing some of these e.g. to Peterborough from Kings Cross. I expect that's an accidental omission, though, as it would be odd to allow Advances but not a higher priced ticket.

Surprised Weekend First features given that you purchase that on board so wouldn't have it at the point of using the lounge, unless it's also on arrival?

It also appears not to include InterRail (does that have a first class pass?) or BritRail, but again I'd be surprised if that wasn't an erroneous omission.

Actually, it also omits 70 Minute Flex but that's definitely going to be an accidental omission. Bit of a bodge by the looks of things!

 

[john77]

It doesn't appear to include First Off Peak, despite LNER pricing some of these e.g. to Peterborough from Kings Cross. I expect that's an accidental omission, though, as it would be odd to allow Advances but not a higher priced ticket.

Surprised Weekend First features given that you purchase that on board so wouldn't have it at the point of using the lounge, unless it's also on arrival?

It also appears not to include InterRail (does that have a first class pass?) or BritRail, but again I'd be surprised if that wasn't an erroneous omission.

Actually, it also omits 70 Minute Flex but that's definitely going to be an accidental omission. Bit of a bodge by the looks of things!

You can definitely use a first class interrail pass to access the lounge at King's Cross.

 

[yorkie]

My suggestion would be a new organisation that own and operate all first class lounges which would be available to first class ticket holders for any TOC serving the particular station. What do others think?

In theory yes, but in practice some first class fares would rise. Some short distance fares may even be abolished.

For example, TPE price cheaper First Class fares for journeys that don't include much in the way of catering etc; these fares may be considered too cheap to include lounge access.

LNER surely price their shorter distance fares, such as York to Doncaster, with the view in mind that some people may be visiting the lounge(s) at each location. The uplift over standard on such a short journey otherwise couldn't be justified, so I believe that lounge access is a consideration when determining the price.

For sure, I consider lounge access to have value when I am making a purchase (especially as I am often working remotely, for which lounges are very useful)

 

[Howardh]

When these lounges are quiet, could they offer entrance to any ticket holder for a fee (£5? £10??) up to a comfortable capacity? Or in the case of Avanti, maybe that for Standard Plus users, a top up to use theounges off-peak?

 

[class17]

I will be travelling soon from Manchester Piccadilly station in first class on a Cross Country service. I see that MAN has a First Class lounge. I have read that this, in common with most others around the country, is for Avanti passengers only.

My suggestion would be a new organisation that own and operate all first class lounges which would be available to first class ticket holders for any TOC serving the particular station. What do others think?

I also have a 1st class Anytime Single from Manchester Piccadilly, but my intention is to catch a Cross County train rather than an Avanti train. Does this prohibit me from using the Avanti 1st class lounge?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I also have a 1st class Anytime Single from Manchester Piccadilly, but my intention is to catch a Cross County train rather than an Avanti train. Does this prohibit me from using the Avanti 1st class lounge?

Does the ticket have validity on Avanti (and is that actually plausible, i.e. not just Picc-Stockport or something which they may give you hassle for)? If so I can't see how they can really stop you if you just said you intended to use Avanti. You could always change your mind between leaving the lounge and boarding.

 

[class17]

Does the ticket have validity on Avanti (and is that actually plausible, i.e. not just Picc-Stockport or something which they may give you hassle for)? If so I can't see how they can really stop you if you just said you intended to use Avanti. You could always change your mind between leaving the lounge and boarding.

Yes, going to the south coast, so I could go Avanti to Crewe or Stafford. It isn't Cross Country only or an advance ticket with a fixed train.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I also have a 1st class Anytime Single from Manchester Piccadilly, but my intention is to catch a Cross County train rather than an Avanti train. Does this prohibit me from using the Avanti 1st class lounge?

As has been said above, if you have a ticket valid on both Avanti and XC you can assert that you are travelling on Avanti. Just remember to leave when there's an Avanti departure rather than an XC one