First Class in XC 170s

[P156KWJ]

Hi, I've noticed that in the ongoing refurbishment programme of XC's fleet of turbostars (going much better than EMT's 158s ) they are all being fitted with a small section of 1st class at one end of each unit. My question is... a) is there actually any demand for it, and b) why do there seem to be no 1st class fares available for journeys operated by XC 170s?!

For example, say if I wanted to catch the 0934 from Nottingham to Birmingham, sole 170s. But, some are refurbed with first class, whereas some are still unrefurbished, all standard class units. According to NR, only STD class tickets are available (except on the options where you go via Leicester on HST/222s). And I have seen people using it before (only once or twice though). So does anyone know if they are treating it as standard class until all refubs have been done, whether there are first class tickets available??

Also, I actually feel there's no demand on the Nottingham / Stansted - Birmingham / Cardiff routes, I've seen mostly nobody using it, and on 2 occasions I've seen one person sitting in the first class section. Has anyone travelled in it, is it worth the extra cash, and is it like on voyagers where you can maybe get free snacks etc?

Ta, Sulzer

 

[Jordy]

AFAIK First Class tickets won't be introduced until all the trains have First Class.

 

[P156KWJ]

:???: so how are people managing to get in to first class at the moment? Might ask the guard next time I get one one, see was he/she says

 

[jacknottm]

£10 Upgrade at the mo

Jack

 

[P156KWJ]

£10 hock: I'll leave that I think

 

[mumrar]

Yes, but you have to bear in mind that it's also a £10 upgrade from Nottingham to Cardiff if you're going the whole trip, or New Street to Stansted. That makes it cheaper than other first class fares which are just double the standard open fare and means you only upgrade when you know you have first class. It's not perfect but then could it ever be whilst refurbishing the fleet and running a service too

 

[furryfeet]

i presume the £10 is "weekend first" ?

first class fares priced by arriva XC are very expensive.
so i cannot see anyone using this during the week
Why are they DOUBLE the 2nd class fare ?
Why not follow the european standard and pay only a 50% supplement ?

Mind you, everyone was quite happy with just 2nd class, especially with the declassified ex-mml units.
It is only arrivas apparent greed that has caused this, not public demand.

I would be interested if sulzer25 can find out what the fares policy is until all the units have been converted.

 

[First class]

The fares are not double, but uses the multiplier of 1.7, the same as most TOCs.

 

[mumrar]

It is the same as weekend first on the former Virgin side of CrossCountry and on the ex-Central it applies all throughout the week to any ticket. Incidentally, if the difference between the standard and first class fares for your journey is less than £10 then this is what you are charged for the upgrade too.

I was generalising when saying double, just to say it's a lot more

 

[P156KWJ]

if this is wekend first, does this mean during the week it's totally useless and should be treated as std. until all units done?!

 

[jopsuk]

if this is wekend first, does this mean during the week it's totally useless and should be treated as std. until all units done?!

I think you're confusing a type of First Class ticket (Weekend First, and upgrade to a standard class ticket available at weekends) and First Class seating, for which there is the "normal" range of First Class tickets available all week.

 

[P156KWJ]

but don't you see, there are no 'first class' tickets available to buy

 

[devon_metro]

Isn't it declassified until the whole fleet is done?

 

[Crompton Karl]

As far as i am aware, if they run a train which has a 1st class compartment on a line which does not offer 1st class tickets then basically while its running on that route the train is declassified as std only and you can sit in the 1st class seats with a standard ticket. Thats how it used to be on the Medway Valley line when they run a 3/4 CEP vice a 508 before they got withdrawn and other such units since (3car 375 etc). But maybe our resident ticketing expert may assist in answering this one for you.

Karl

 

[furryfeet]

the 1.7 multiplier is for season tickets.

But for ordinary tickets it is MORE than double in some cases !

e.g. nottingham to birmingham new street
anytime single - £19 2nd class, £38 1st
anytime return - £23.50 2nc, £47 1st
off peak return - £11.90 / £17.80 2nd, £35 1st

tamworth to Bhm New St is another
anytime single £5 2nd class, £10 1st
day return £5.80 / £5.90 2nd, £13.60 1st

so it would seem that mumrar's generalisation was not far wide of the mark after all !

 

[P156KWJ]

Isn't it declassified until the whole fleet is done?

I'd hope so means I can stretch out a bit, I'm oo tall for the std clas seats, not enough legroom

 

[mumrar]

***PLEASE TAKE NOTE***

I wouldn't want anyone to get caught out, so speaking from the correct position as a CrossCountry 170 guard, 1st class IS NOT declassified until the whole fleet is done. It is in full operations, apart from maybe a tie in later with the catering if they ever bring it back 'in house'.

As to there being no 1st calss fares on the 170 routes, primary stations on our routes have 1st class fares, but not all. If the fare does not exist it would be dealt with under the £10 upgrade from a standard ticket, which is usually sheaper than buying a 1st class ticket outright anyway.

So please don't get caught out in 1st class, I'd hate to see the post on from someone on here from the customer point of view just because the facts weren't right.

 

[AlexS]

Although I'd suggest if you're one of the unfortunates who gets a full and standing 2 car 170 out of Leicester in the peak with the first class totally empty, you're well within your rights under the NCOC to request permission to sit in first class from the train guard.

 

[TEW]

You can request but he/she has every right to decline you.

 

[P156KWJ]

I will say the old saying "if I made the rules" then if 1st class had space available and standard was wedged to more than an acceptable number standing, with pregnant women and the disabled priority, I'd allow first class to be put up for offer at no extra cost to them.

 

[devon_metro]

I will say the old saying "if I made the rules" then if 1st class had space available and standard was wedged to more than an acceptable number standing, with pregnant women and the disabled priority, I'd allow first class to be put up for offer at no extra cost to them.

And the business passenger who paid ££££££££ for his fare would then go on to kick them out. The 170 First Class (from what I have seen) is fairly pathetic. To me it looks like Chapman seating with a bit more padding and a spruced up head rest! This being very much unlike the lavish affair in the ex MML ones. Absolute Luxury!!

 

[P156KWJ]

the ex MML ones are absolute luxury, the seats are MASSIVE! They are soft, the recliners generally work, and all seats including airline style have a table and light. Thee new XC first class on 170s is spin-off style 1st class like London Midland's 321s, all the extras you get in there is a table, armrest and anti macassre hock:

 

[mumrar]

Thee new XC first class on 170s is spin-off style 1st class like London Midland's 321s, all the extras you get in there is a table, armrest and anti macassre hock:

Don't forget the power points for mobile/laptop use. It's not great, but what exactly can you expect to them to put in a 2-car unit.

 

[AlexS]

Nothing. It's them being greedy, the 2 car units are too small for what they operate already and taking up space for a few 1st seats is ridiculous.

 

[Max]

Don't forget the power points for mobile/laptop use. It's not great, but what exactly can you expect to them to put in a 2-car unit.

I'm surprised that there aren't power sockets at all seats on the 170s like on other operators, TPE for example!

 

[class 313]

Mind you, everyone was quite happy with just 2nd class, especially with the declassified ex-mml units.

Well of course people would be happy sitting in ex-first class for STD tickets.

:roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

the ex MML ones are absolute luxury, the seats are MASSIVE! They are soft, the recliners generally work, and all seats including airline style have a table and light. Thee new XC first class on 170s is spin-off style 1st class like London Midland's 321s, all the extras you get in there is a table, armrest and anti macassre hock:

LM 321s have 442 seats in FC.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm surprised that there aren't power sockets at all seats on the 170s like on other operators, TPE for example!

They wouldn't be used much on XC 170s, surely!?

 

[91101]

Class 313, I'm not so sure you know, I think there is a pretty big "semi" InterCity market between Stanstead, Peterborough and Birmingham, and similarly between Nottingham/Derby/Birmingham and Cardiff, in much the same way that TPE would serve similar markets accross the North.

Are there any 170's that have plug sockets in Standard Class though?

 

[mumrar]

LM 321s have 442 seats in FC.

Jesus, 442 seats in first class, and I thought all the space given over on Pendolinos was a bit excessive. It's a wonder they've any room for standard class passengers at all

 

[P156KWJ]

Nothing. It's them being greedy, the 2 car units are too small for what they operate already and taking up space for a few 1st seats is ridiculous.

exactly - today there was a massive balls-up at Burton-on-trent, so trains were rolling in to Derby some 50 minutes late at times. 170528 (2 car) turned up on a Cardiff-Nottingham and std class was wedged, first class was empty...

 

[class 313]

Jesus, 442 seats in first class, and I thought all the space given over on Pendolinos was a bit excessive. It's a wonder they've any room for standard class passengers at all

Well they have half a coach prety much for FC, instead of just up to the first set of doors like on most units on the same level.